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Science Forum Index » Cryptography Forum » Long division algorithm
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| Douglas A. Gwyn |
 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:20 pm |
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Quote: "Arnold Stang" <stang13@anonymous.to> wrote...
Tom St. Denis is a disturbed youth who desperately needs help. I hope
someone at his community college can take him under his/her wing and
give him the counseling he needs. Sincerely.
"Tom St Denis" <tomstdenis@iahu.ca> wrote...
Quote: Tom St Denis contributions to the fields of CS, Math and Cryptography: A
few. More the average poster.
Truly delusional.
Quote: Arnold Stang contributions to the fields of CS, Math and Cryptography:
ZERO.
If that's Arnold Stang the great character actor, why should he also make
contributions to those fields? But no matter who he is, all he needs for
qualifications to make accurate comments on your mental state is the
evidence gathered from your postings in the newsgroups he reads.
Quote: At least when I reply to people in the negative it's because I probably
have experience in the subject that makes me qualified to post
No, generally when you reply in the negative it is to disparage the
person to whose post you're responding. One doesn't have to be
a professional psychologist to realize that most likely you're trying
to fake a sense of self-esteem by pretending to be better than the
other guy. You should thank Mr. Stang for his constructive advice,
and then follow it. |
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| Tom St Denis |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:32 pm |
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"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote in message
news:bsi8na$6i7$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Quote: "Arnold Stang" <stang13@anonymous.to> wrote...
Tom St. Denis is a disturbed youth who desperately needs help. I hope
someone at his community college can take him under his/her wing and
give him the counseling he needs. Sincerely.
"Tom St Denis" <tomstdenis@iahu.ca> wrote...
Tom St Denis contributions to the fields of CS, Math and Cryptography:
A
few. More the average poster.
Truly delusional.
Um and how are you not a troll?
I never said my contributions were major and important. I said I
contributed a few things to the field. Last I checked Greg's published
Turing design references one of my designs. etc. etc.
You know what I don't really have to justify myself to the likes of you. If
you don't respect my work so be it. I don't really care.
Quote: Arnold Stang contributions to the fields of CS, Math and Cryptography:
ZERO.
If that's Arnold Stang the great character actor, why should he also make
contributions to those fields? But no matter who he is, all he needs for
qualifications to make accurate comments on your mental state is the
evidence gathered from your postings in the newsgroups he reads.
Well given that I've never spoken with him how is he qualified to judge my
mental state? I mean if that's all you need than group therapy could be
performed in an IRC chat room.
I'd say if Greg Rose came in here talking smack about me that would carry
more weight than some two-bit loser nobody that dropped out of the wind to
post some flame in usenet [Sorry Greg, I know you'd never do that, just
trying to make an example]
Quote:
At least when I reply to people in the negative it's because I probably
have experience in the subject that makes me qualified to post
No, generally when you reply in the negative it is to disparage the
person to whose post you're responding. One doesn't have to be
a professional psychologist to realize that most likely you're trying
to fake a sense of self-esteem by pretending to be better than the
other guy. You should thank Mr. Stang for his constructive advice,
and then follow it.
I don't disparage people. I may discourage them from acting like f'ing
retards but that's totally different.
If I wanted to put people down I wouldn't reply to MKS the way I would do.
What tom is thinking during reply to MKS: OMG YOU MOTHER [BEEP] INCOMPETENT
[BEEP] LAZY [BEEP BEEP] PICK UP A [BEEP] [BEEP] Textbook/paper/website/etc
and [BEEP] read the [BEEP] contents for once!
What tom is writing during reply to MKS: Can you reduce your proposal to
some worthy assumption?
Big difference.
The fact that what I actually write comes off as crass or rude is because
the people I'm replying to are generally lazy, clueless and not willing to
sit still and learn something for a minute.
Getting back on topic though. You're suggestion to read TAOCP to learn how
to perform division was totally lame. HAC and heck even my Textbook have
been around for a while [HAC being around for MUCH longer]. They're both
free and both cover the topic [IIRC, been a while]. Certainly you could
have pointed him to the YEAR OLD LibTomMath or several year old GMP for
better references.
That would, of course, require you to spend an ounce of thought answering
the question instead of sniping out the most useless reply possible.
Tom |
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| Mok-Kong Shen |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:42 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote:
"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote:
Quote: If that's Arnold Stang the great character actor, why should he also make
contributions to those fields? But no matter who he is, all he needs for
qualifications to make accurate comments on your mental state is the
evidence gathered from your postings in the newsgroups he reads.
Well given that I've never spoken with him how is he qualified to judge my
mental state? I mean if that's all you need than group therapy could be
performed in an IRC chat room.
[snip]
Never heard of remote diagnosis (which occurred since
long time in diverse fields of medicine)??
M. K. Shen |
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| Tom St Denis |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:52 pm |
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"Mok-Kong Shen" <mok-kong.shen@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3FECAB47.F1FF7192@t-online.de...
Quote:
Tom St Denis wrote:
"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote:
If that's Arnold Stang the great character actor, why should he also
make
contributions to those fields? But no matter who he is, all he needs
for
qualifications to make accurate comments on your mental state is the
evidence gathered from your postings in the newsgroups he reads.
Well given that I've never spoken with him how is he qualified to judge
my
mental state? I mean if that's all you need than group therapy could be
performed in an IRC chat room.
[snip]
Never heard of remote diagnosis (which occurred since
long time in diverse fields of medicine)??
I really hope that a subset of posts [cuz I doubt jackass reads all of my
posts] count as a good impression of my mental state. The fact that I act
wickedly different in person apparently plays no bearing on this. Nor does
the obvious observation that Jackass, er, Arnold Stang has yet to contribute
anything of his own worthy of attention to the field.
Again, it's easy to disrepect people, it's harder to earn respect from
complete strangers.
Tom |
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| Mok-Kong Shen |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:05 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote:
[snip]
I really hope that a subset of posts [cuz I doubt jackass reads all of my
posts] count as a good impression of my mental state. The fact that I act
wickedly different in person apparently plays no bearing on this. Nor does
the obvious observation that Jackass, er, Arnold Stang has yet to contribute
anything of his own worthy of attention to the field.
Again, it's easy to disrepect people, it's harder to earn respect from
complete strangers.
This is a sincere advice from my (quite long) personal
experience. It is always a good idea to imagine an
exchange of the roles in many situations of real life
before taking any arbitrary action. If you are quite
sure that you would be fairly satisfied in the other
person's role, then you are almost always o.k. with
what you intend to act. Otherwise, some reconsideration
or reservation is presumably in order. Just my 2 cents.
M. K. Shen |
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| Richard Heathfield |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:33 pm |
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Randy Howard wrote:
Quote: In article <bsdt9a$mgp$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>, DAGwyn@null.net
says...
for example Kunth's "The Art of Computer Programming".
Now, that is an unfortunate typo if ever there was one.
For the - um - uninitiated (which group does not, of course, include Doug
Gwyn!), the full reference is:
"The Art of Computer Programming", Volume 2, "Seminumerical Algorithms", by
Donald E Knuth.
In the third edition, ISBN 0-201-894684-2, the relevant algorithm is on page
272 in Section 4.3.1. It's Algorithm D, and READ THE ERRATA!, since there
is a relevant entry for this algorithm.
--
Richard Heathfield : binary@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton |
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| Arnold Stang |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:32 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote: "Mok-Kong Shen" <mok-kong.shen@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3FECAB47.F1FF7192@t-online.de...
Tom St Denis wrote:
"Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote:
If that's Arnold Stang the great character actor, why should he also
make
contributions to those fields? But no matter who he is, all he needs
for
qualifications to make accurate comments on your mental state is the
evidence gathered from your postings in the newsgroups he reads.
Well given that I've never spoken with him how is he qualified to judge
my
mental state? I mean if that's all you need than group therapy could be
performed in an IRC chat room.
[snip]
Never heard of remote diagnosis (which occurred since
long time in diverse fields of medicine)??
I really hope that a subset of posts [cuz I doubt jackass reads all of my
posts] count as a good impression of my mental state. The fact that I act
wickedly different in person apparently plays no bearing on this. Nor does
the obvious observation that Jackass, er, Arnold Stang has yet to contribute
anything of his own worthy of attention to the field.
I'm shocked that you would refer to me as a Jackass, Tom. Remember, the
sharpest knife 'tis the spoken word, which, used with wanton abandon,
can butcher as cruelly as the most drunken Elizabethan surgeon.
Arnold Stang
Quote:
Again, it's easy to disrepect people, it's harder to earn respect from
complete strangers.
Tom
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| sammy |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:51 pm |
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:32:12 GMT, "Tom St Denis" <tomstdenis@iahu.ca>
wrote:
<snip>
Quote: I'd say if Greg Rose came in here talking smack about me that would carry
more weight than some two-bit loser nobody that dropped out of the wind to
post some flame in usenet [Sorry Greg, I know you'd never do that, just
trying to make an example]
It would carry more weight, but it wouldn't actually shut you up.
You'd find a way to somehow justify being an offensive jerk.
Using Greg Rose is a self-serving example and anyone who reads this
group knows why so I won't have to explain it.
Hint: Greg Rose is a class act who never talks smack about *anyone*.
Every other significant poster in this group, with the possible
exeption of Fluhrer (and he doesn't count because you are just a
flyspeck on his fast radar) has, at some point, made a reference,
sometimes without actually naming you, but definitely referencing your
impolite disparaging style. Most of them advise the person who is
being attacked, or the person who is resonding to your mean-spirited
attacks on someone else, to ignore you because there is nothing they,
or the person being attacked can do about it. It is the only good
advice they can give without being offensive themselves.
That doesn't mean they approve of your actions, merely that they are
resolved to endure them without letting on that it bothers them.
They put up with you because they have to. To do anything else would
require varying degrees of unpleasantness on their part.
Truth? You can go back into the archives and see that it is truthful.
<snip>
Quote: I don't disparage people.
Yes, you f'ing do
Quote: I may discourage them from acting like f'ing
retards but that's totally different.
By being an f'ing retard yourself. TSD the f'ing retard gargoyle at
the sci.crypt gate. Not needed. We're smart enough around here to
figure it out on our own without being subjected to your bad breath.
<snip>
Quote: If I wanted to put people down I wouldn't reply to MKS the way I would do.
This is the funniest thing anyone has said all week. You're full of
shit and that's the nicest way to put it.
MKS is buying a house in trollville and you love the sound of your own
voice too much to avoid going there yourself.
<snip> |
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| Richard Heathfield |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 9:36 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <DAGwyn@null.net> wrote in message
news:bsi8na$6i7$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
"Arnold Stang" <stang13@anonymous.to> wrote...
Tom St. Denis is a disturbed youth who desperately needs help. I hope
someone at his community college can take him under his/her wing and
give him the counseling he needs. Sincerely.
"Tom St Denis" <tomstdenis@iahu.ca> wrote...
Tom St Denis contributions to the fields of CS, Math and Cryptography:
A
few. More the average poster.
Truly delusional.
Um and how are you not a troll?
troll: An individual who [...] regularly posts specious arguments, flames or
personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other
purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion.
For the full entry, see http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/T/troll.html
Doug Gwyn is a language expert and a crypto expert. He is also the author of
three excellent chapters in the superb book "Software Solutions in C". He
has a *lot* of credibility. He regularly posts solid, common-sense
arguments in this newsgroup. And yet you insult him by calling him a troll.
I /can/ think of an individual who regularly posts specious arguments,
flames and personal attacks to this newsgroup, for no apparent purpose
other than to annoy or disrupt. But Doug Gwyn isn't that person.
See if you can guess who I mean.
Quote: I never said my contributions were major and important.
And yet you think the OP would be better served by being referred to
LibTomCrypt rather than to Donald Knuth. Sheesh.
<snip>
--
Richard Heathfield : binary@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton |
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| Richard Heathfield |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 9:47 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote: "Randy Howard" <randy.howard@FOOmegapathdslBAR.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a56e2ad7167d6a9989a2e@news.megapathdsl.net...
Denying that any books which are not freely available are worth reading
is a huge sign of ignorance.
So you're saying then, that the GPL advocates are just "ignorant" as they
too would like to see a GPL-full world.
No, that's not what he's saying *at all*. Some GPL advocates undoubtedly are
ignorant, but many are not, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a bright GPL
advocate without a copy of Knuth close to hand. Being a GPL advocate does
not mean denying the value of (some!) existing non-free information
sources. Yes, it would be lovely if Knuth's books were free. But they
aren't, and we can choose either to ignore them or to borrow them from the
library or to buy them. You appear to choose to ignore them. I'm a GPL
advocate (in my own quiet way), but I chose to buy them.
Quote:
Why can't the same be said about knowledge. I mean, where do you think
the knowledge comes from to write half of the software you find out there?
From Knuth. Duh.
--
Richard Heathfield : binary@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton |
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| Richard Heathfield |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:12 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote: I never said there aren't smarter people then me around. I could name a
half dozen off the top of my head. Watch. Contini, Fisher, Fluhrer,
Rose,
Rosing and Wagner. [and those came out in alphabetical order... figure
that out!].
You missed a couple of obvious contenders: Doug Gwyn and Donald Knuth.
--
Richard Heathfield : binary@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton |
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| Richard Heathfield |
| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:25 pm |
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Tom St Denis wrote:
Quote: In the context of this thread and the OP
recommending textbooks when freely available useful resources exist is
just stupid IMO.
In the context of this thread, then, you think it stupid to recommend Knuth?
I find it quite hard to believe that you believe this, given that Knuth is
just about the most solid and comprehensive computer science reference work
available, bar none.
Quote: The only thing I can say to this is I'm not Stallman.
THAT I can believe.
Quote: I don't represent GNU
either. My point though is there are plenty of people that would like to
see the average desktop user use a GPL'ed OS over MSFT Windows.
I'd rather the average desktop user had an informed choice. If people want
to use Windows, good luck to them (and they'll need it). What business is
it of yours or mine what the average desktop user uses? And what has this
to do with Knuth and MP libs? There is nothing inherently platform-specific
about the concept of division, after all - so a portable MP lib is
eminently possible.
Quote: You sir, must learn to use google. I've learned a shitload by googling
around and citeseering from time to time.
Then I suggest you Google for "respect for one's betters".
Quote: Sure textbooks are useful [I own a few dozen on various subjects]. I'd
just
rather see an emerging trend of openly available resources. Call me the
idealist.
If a free alternative to Knuth that is of the same quality were to exist,
fine, we'd all like a copy. It doesn't follow that recommending Knuth is a
bad idea.
Quote: I just like calling him on stuff like that
to see if he will ever support anything he writes.
I don't think it should be necessary to support a statement like "read
Knuth". Those who have a copy of Knuth (or who have read it in the library)
already know that it's the best book (or, rather, set of books!) on CS in
existence, and those who haven't are not qualified to offer an opinion.
Quote: I get the last word in because I can,
Grow up, there's a good chap.
Quote: I bought TAOCP because I heard people talking about it.
Betcha it wasn't Knuth you heard, though. (Hint.)
Quote: Obviously you're totally clueless to the crux of the problem I *HAD* with
Gwyn's post. It wasn't that Gwyn didn't recommend my text. It was that
Gwyn made yet another random suggestion which was just simply a bad idea
It was far from random and was in fact a great idea. Knuth is the canonical
reference for this algorithm.
--
Richard Heathfield : binary@eton.powernet.co.uk
"Usenet is a strange place." - Dennis M Ritchie, 29 July 1999.
C FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
K&R answers, C books, etc: http://users.powernet.co.uk/eton |
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| Douglas A. Gwyn |
| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:23 am |
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"Richard Heathfield" <invalid@address.co.uk.invalid> wrote...
Quote: It's Algorithm D, and READ THE ERRATA!, since there
is a relevant entry for this algorithm.
It's worth noting that the errata for TAOCP are available on Knuth's
Web site, URL http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/ |
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| Randy Howard |
| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:46 am |
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In article <KZWGb.95600$2We1.41867@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
tomstdenis@iahu.ca says...
Quote: Tom no in university. University libraries are not free to just anyone,
Universities in Canada will not allow you entry into the building without
an ID? I've never encountered that before. To check out books yes, to
use them inside the building, no.
Quote: tom no have $$$ to burn.
So? Does everyone have that problem? Did the OP indicate he had that
problem?
Quote: Still the point is if free stuff exists on the web [GMP, the HAC book, LTM,
etc...] that's a better place to start than with a CC and Amazon.com
If and only if other resources are not better suited. Not everyone even
likes "soft copy" of documents. Perhaps I'm old-style in that regard, but
I much prefer a printed copy which I can use anywhere to a softcopy where
I have to be planted in front of a monitor to use it.
If the resources you specified solve the OP's needs, then that is fine.
There is still no need for you to argue with any and all recommendations
which do not include your work.
--
Randy Howard
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| Randy Howard |
| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:52 am |
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In article <lTWGb.95489$2We1.8704@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
tomstdenis@iahu.ca says...
Quote: The dude wants to know how todo division. You don't buy a 65$ text book to
learn that unless you got money to burn. For the record, vol2 [the one he
would have to buy] covers others topics such as floating point math, random
number generators, statistical testing, etc.
I'm well aware of its contents, having first purchased a copy while you
were still in diapers. (I have no idea whether you still are or not,
your actions do not make that abundantly clear)
I suppose it never crossed your mind that the purchase of one of the
most respected textbooks in the industry could serve no useful purpose
after the immediate problem is resolved? He'll never have a question
about any other topic that might be covered there? Why are you the
one best suited to judge that?
Look, I understand that you want people to look at your work. What I
do not understand is why you *insist* upon it while denigrating the
recommendations of anyone that refers someone to a much more established
and respected source. You already told them about your book, that
should be sufficient. A 2x4 shouldn't be needed, or beneficial.
Quote: It's as if the guy asked what the first value of the AES sbox is and he
recommended that he buys the Rijndael book.
You have a right to your opinion. It would be nice if you would afford
others the same right.
Quote: I say if good free alternatives exist you offer those first and then get
into the $$$ alternatives.
That's almost precisely what happened. BOTH were recommended, and if the
OP didn't have the money, he could go your route, if money was no object
he was free to pursue both, or neither at his option. Where's the beef?
Quote: I even recommended HAC above my book so this isn't an ego trip this is
just pure realism.
You "realism" is colored by your current financial situation. That's
perfectly understandable, but you shouldn't expect or require that
everyone operates under that same circumstance.
--
Randy Howard
2reply remove FOOBAR |
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