Main Page | Report Page

 

  Science Forum Index » Astrology Forum » Decline of Religion Has Caused an Explosion of...

Author Message
Immortalist...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:52 am
 
In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
and other varieties of new age, anti-enlightenment philosophies.
Millions more advance popular conspiracy theories: AIDS was created in
a CIA laboratory, Princess Diana was assassinated, and the 9/11
attacks were an inside job...

....the basic cause of this explosion of irrationality is the slow but
steady marginalization of religion. We tell ourselves that faith and
reason are incompatible, but the opposite is the case. It was
Christianity and the Hebrew Bible ...that gave us our concepts of
reason, progress, and an orderly world on which science and modernity
are based.

Without its religious traditions, the West has drifted into mass
derangement where truth and lies, right and wrong, victim and
aggressor are all turned upside down. Scientists skeptical of global
warming are hounded from their posts, Israel is demonized, and the US
is vilified over the war on terror—all on the basis of blatant
falsehoods and obscene propaganda.

Worst of all this abandonment of rationality leaves the West
vulnerable to its legitimate threats. Faced with the very real
challenges of spiraling demographics and violent, confrontational
Islamism, the West is no longer willing or able to defend the
modernity and rationalism that it once brought into being.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Turned-Upside-Down-Global/dp/1594033757
 
Immortalist...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:00 pm
 
On Nov 2, 4:02 pm, Sir Frederick Martin <mmcne... at (no spam) fuzzysys.com> wrote:
[quote]On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
and other varieties of new age, anti-enlightenment philosophies.
Millions more advance popular conspiracy theories: AIDS was created in
a CIA laboratory, Princess Diana was assassinated, and the 9/11
attacks were an inside job...

...the basic cause of this explosion of irrationality is the slow but
steady marginalization of religion. We tell ourselves that faith and
reason are incompatible, but the opposite is the case. It was
Christianity and the Hebrew Bible ...that gave us our concepts of
reason, progress, and an orderly world on which science and modernity
are based.

Without its religious traditions, the West has drifted into mass
derangement where truth and lies, right and wrong, victim and
aggressor are all turned upside down. Scientists skeptical of global
warming are hounded from their posts, Israel is demonized, and the US
is vilified over the war on terror all on the basis of blatant
falsehoods and obscene propaganda.

Worst of all this abandonment of rationality leaves the West
vulnerable to its legitimate threats. Faced with the very real
challenges of spiraling demographics and violent, confrontational
Islamism, the West is no longer willing or able to defend the
modernity and rationalism that it once brought into being.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Turned-Upside-Down-Global/dp/1594033757

As I have said for years, 'we' 'humans' need 'our' stories.
Without the cultural collections, 'we' drift off into idiosyncratic
ones, sometimes called "irrational". Such is the way of functionally
autonomous information structures, in this spooky place.
All other functionally autonomous information structures, such as
putative aliens ('little green men') and 'robots', are or will be the same.

'We' really need to accommodate this need 'rationally' rather than just
'fall' into said stories. Present methods are problematic, such as terrorism.
[/quote]
So since Buddhism is the main"story" in some Asian countries and
Buddhism is an atheist story, and if they change their story like
those in the West have changed theirs, then they would have a similar
cultural shock? If so then it is just the story and not the content of
the story? Or maybe the story has to meet minimal criteria in order to
satisfy humans in a way that their is no social decline even though it
can be ether theistic or non-theistic? Or maybe it is just some kinds
and rates of change that disrupt?

Lots of people in the West misunderstand Buddhism, especially it's
general lack of any divine figures. They don't realize that, for many,
Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion. People in the West are
accustomed to religions all being theistic, so the idea of an
atheistic religion is almost incomprehensible.

Cyrix writes about several myths about Buddhism, including:

3. Buddhist are Godless, aethists, and nihilistic

No we aren’t. Just because Buddhism teaches that there is no God
or Gods, doesn’t mean that a Buddhist is directionless in life! True,
we do not aspire to do good in this life so that we are qualified to
spend our afterlife in a blissful Heaven, like what Christians,
Muslims and the Jews believe. However, instead of that aim, all
Buddhist should try to attain Nirvana, through understanding what
causes their suffering in life...

http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/11/28/buddhism-and-atheism.htm
 
Sir Frederick Martin...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:02 pm
 
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
and other varieties of new age, anti-enlightenment philosophies.
Millions more advance popular conspiracy theories: AIDS was created in
a CIA laboratory, Princess Diana was assassinated, and the 9/11
attacks were an inside job...

...the basic cause of this explosion of irrationality is the slow but
steady marginalization of religion. We tell ourselves that faith and
reason are incompatible, but the opposite is the case. It was
Christianity and the Hebrew Bible ...that gave us our concepts of
reason, progress, and an orderly world on which science and modernity
are based.

Without its religious traditions, the West has drifted into mass
derangement where truth and lies, right and wrong, victim and
aggressor are all turned upside down. Scientists skeptical of global
warming are hounded from their posts, Israel is demonized, and the US
is vilified over the war on terror—all on the basis of blatant
falsehoods and obscene propaganda.

Worst of all this abandonment of rationality leaves the West
vulnerable to its legitimate threats. Faced with the very real
challenges of spiraling demographics and violent, confrontational
Islamism, the West is no longer willing or able to defend the
modernity and rationalism that it once brought into being.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Turned-Upside-Down-Global/dp/1594033757
[/quote]
As I have said for years, 'we' 'humans' need 'our' stories.
Without the cultural collections, 'we' drift off into idiosyncratic
ones, sometimes called "irrational". Such is the way of functionally
autonomous information structures, in this spooky place.
All other functionally autonomous information structures, such as
putative aliens ('little green men') and 'robots', are or will be the same.

'We' really need to accommodate this need 'rationally' rather than just
'fall' into said stories. Present methods are problematic, such as terrorism.
 
...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:23 pm
 
In sci.skeptic Immortalist <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
and other varieties of new age, anti-enlightenment philosophies.
Millions more advance popular conspiracy theories: AIDS was created in
a CIA laboratory, Princess Diana was assassinated, and the 9/11
attacks were an inside job...
[...][/quote]

There's another explanation. It's all perception. Because "peer to peer"
communication has increased in bandwidth you now simply get to *hear*
from all these views rather not. At one point comms were so expensive
and "one to many" that only *important* stuff was broadcast. And your
own small circle of friends -- naturally -- have views not too far
from your own.

Comms bandwidth is a shared resource. So it's bound to suffer from
a "tragedy of commons" problem. As price per bit gets lower and lower
there are likely several points at which signal-to-noise ratio takes
a sharp nosedive.

The same is try for road traffic. Building more roads doesn't necessarily
reduce congestion. In fact, some experiments have shown with the
*demolition* of freeways traffic flow improves.

--
R Kym Horsell <kym at (no spam) kymhorsell.com>

If your ideas are any good you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
-- Howard Aiken
 
...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:45 pm
 
In sci.skeptic Immortalist <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
and other varieties of new age, anti-enlightenment philosophies.
Millions more advance popular conspiracy theories: AIDS was created in
a CIA laboratory, Princess Diana was assassinated, and the 9/11
attacks were an inside job...
[...][/quote]

There's another explanation. It's all perception. Because "peer to peer"
communication has increased in bandwidth you now simply get to *hear*
from all these views rather not. At one point comms were so expensive
and "one to many" that only *important* stuff was broadcast. And your
own small circle of friends -- naturally -- have views not too far
from your own.

Comms bandwidth is a shared resource. So it's bound to suffer from
a "tragedy of commons" problem. As price per bit gets lower and lower
there are likely several points at which signal-to-noise ratio takes
a sharp nosedive.

The same is true for road traffic. Building more roads doesn't necessarily
reduce congestion. In fact, some experiments have shown with the
*demolition* of freeways traffic flow improves.

A similar "problem" occurs in perception of safety. The mainstream media
has tended to concentrate on more and more sensationalist items over time, and
it's quite common in western societies for there to be a public perception
of growing (say) "crime problem" when the objective per-capita (and
ability to normalise data is yet another deficit in many perceptions)
data may have either remained static for 100 y or even declined.

There is another "human factor". So-called windshield surveys
(what you can see by looking around rather than at representative
data) tend to create very scewed ideas of what is the actual case.

Someone might not accept the idea there are large numbers of
people living rough on the streets because looking around their own
neighbourhood they see no evidence of it.
Someone living on a river harbour might not accept sea-level increase
because a mark made at the high-tide level 150 years ago is still at the
high-tide level. Or someone might not accept a theory that has
a scientific consensus because they, themselves, can not make head
or tail of scientific method.

--
R Kym Horsell <kym at (no spam) kymhorsell.com>

If your ideas are any good you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
-- Howard Aiken
 
Sir Frederick Martin...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:40 pm
 
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:00:49 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]On Nov 2, 4:02 pm, Sir Frederick Martin <mmcne... at (no spam) fuzzysys.com> wrote:


As I have said for years, 'we' 'humans' need 'our' stories.
Without the cultural collections, 'we' drift off into idiosyncratic
ones, sometimes called "irrational". Such is the way of functionally
autonomous information structures, in this spooky place.
All other functionally autonomous information structures, such as
putative aliens ('little green men') and 'robots', are or will be the same.

'We' really need to accommodate this need 'rationally' rather than just
'fall' into said stories. Present methods are problematic, such as terrorism.

So since Buddhism is the main"story" in some Asian countries and
Buddhism is an atheist story, and if they change their story like
those in the West have changed theirs, then they would have a similar
cultural shock? If so then it is just the story and not the content of
the story? Or maybe the story has to meet minimal criteria in order to
satisfy humans in a way that their is no social decline even though it
can be ether theistic or non-theistic? Or maybe it is just some kinds
and rates of change that disrupt?
[/quote]
IMO it is the evolved human brain that sets any criteria as to the effectivity
of any practiced story. 'Human' languages are similarly based and constrained.
Within those boundaries, arbitrariness effects.
[quote]
Lots of people in the West misunderstand Buddhism, especially it's
general lack of any divine figures. They don't realize that, for many,
Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion. People in the West are
accustomed to religions all being theistic, so the idea of an
atheistic religion is almost incomprehensible.
[/quote]
Many 'humans' cannot abide 'mystery'.
[quote]
Cyrix writes about several myths about Buddhism, including:

3. Buddhist are Godless, aethists, and nihilistic

No we aren’t. Just because Buddhism teaches that there is no God
or Gods, doesn’t mean that a Buddhist is directionless in life! True,
we do not aspire to do good in this life so that we are qualified to
spend our afterlife in a blissful Heaven, like what Christians,
Muslims and the Jews believe. However, instead of that aim, all
Buddhist should try to attain Nirvana, through understanding what
causes their suffering in life...

http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/11/28/buddhism-and-atheism.htm
[/quote]
Every person practices there own religion, perhaps ripping off a lot of
culturally offered stories in the process.
 
Michael Gordge...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:15 pm
 
On Nov 3, 6:52 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

Decline of Religion Has Caused an Explosion of Irrationality?

What decline? you are joking of course, there are more religionists
now than ever before, they have only changed the name of their god,
its now called "earth mother" or "greater good" or that nasal chant of
the nauseating leftist retards "Tim's brother keeps him"

MG
 
Michael Gordge...
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:58 pm
 
On Nov 3, 4:35 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg... at (no spam) newsguy.com> wrote:

[quote]Cite?
[/quote]
The US, indeed, the western world as a whole, gets more and more
socialist every year and the subject of the thread is an "explosion in
irrationality".

Mortal is a fool, he wants the readers to believe that one becomes a
socialist and a religionist by different means, they DONT, both
religionism and socialism can ONLY come about by the complete
abandonment of reason resulting in an "explosion in irrationality".

MG
 
Sir Frederick Martin...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:10 am
 
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:31:30 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray at (no spam) newsguy.com> wrote:

[quote]On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,

"scientism"???
WTF is that when it has not been pulled out of your arse?
Criminal talk. Ignorant at that.[/quote]


[quote]The scientific method is accepted because it works, not because it is believed.
- Christopher A. Lee
[/quote]
The place is a mystery. Why is there something, rather than nothing? Why is
there a 'situation', rather than none?
 
Michael Gray...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:13 am
 
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
[/quote]
"scientism"???
WTF is that when it has not been pulled out of your arse?


--

The scientific method is accepted because it works, not because it is believed.
- Christopher A. Lee
 
Michael Gray...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:42 am
 
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:10:38 -0700, Sir Frederick Martin
<mmcneill at (no spam) fuzzysys.com> wrote:

[quote]On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:31:30 +1030, Michael Gray <mikegray at (no spam) newsguy.com> wrote:

On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,

"scientism"???
WTF is that when it has not been pulled out of your arse?
Criminal talk. Ignorant at that.
[/quote]
Criminal? Hardly!
Ignorant? Enlighten me please.
After all, that is what I requested, and that which you have yet to
proffer.

[quote]The place is a mystery. Why is there something, rather than nothing? Why is
there a 'situation', rather than none?
[/quote]
And that is your definition of "scientism'?
Seek help, you anonymous coward.


--

The scientific method is accepted because it works, not because it is believed.
- Christopher A. Lee
 
Michael Gray...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:47 am
 
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 23:15:46 -0700 (PDT), Michael Gordge
<mikegordge at (no spam) xtra.co.nz> wrote:

[quote]On Nov 3, 6:52 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

Decline of Religion Has Caused an Explosion of Irrationality?

What decline? you are joking of course, there are more religionists
now than ever before,
[/quote]
Cite?
I don't believe you.

[quote]they have only changed the name of their god,
its now called "earth mother" or "greater good" or that nasal chant of
the nauseating leftist retards "Tim's brother keeps him"

MG
[/quote]

--

The scientific method is accepted because it works, not because it is believed.
- Christopher A. Lee
 
Jimbo...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:21 am
 
On Nov 2, 5:52 pm, Immortalist <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,
and other varieties of new age, anti-enlightenment philosophies.
Millions more advance popular conspiracy theories: AIDS was created in
a CIA laboratory, Princess Diana was assassinated, and the 9/11
attacks were an inside job...

...the basic cause of this explosion of irrationality is the slow but
steady marginalization of religion. We tell ourselves that faith and
reason are incompatible, but the opposite is the case. It was
Christianity and the Hebrew Bible ...that gave us our concepts of
reason, progress, and an orderly world on which science and modernity
are based.

Without its religious traditions, the West has drifted into mass
derangement where truth and lies, right and wrong, victim and
aggressor are all turned upside down. Scientists skeptical of global
warming are hounded from their posts, Israel is demonized, and the US
is vilified over the war on terror—all on the basis of blatant
falsehoods and obscene propaganda.

Worst of all this abandonment of rationality leaves the West
vulnerable to its legitimate threats. Faced with the very real
challenges of spiraling demographics and violent, confrontational
Islamism, the West is no longer willing or able to defend the
modernity and rationalism that it once brought into being.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Turned-Upside-Down-Global/dp/1594033757
[/quote]

I don't see it as an explosion of irrationality so much as I see the
decline of religion and the rise in political irrationality as a lot
of people trading one form of irrationality for another.
 
...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:29 am
 
On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
<reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]
...the basic cause of this explosion of irrationality is the slow but
steady marginalization of religion. We tell ourselves that faith and
reason are incompatible, but the opposite is the case. It was
Christianity and the Hebrew Bible ...that gave us our concepts of
reason, progress, and an orderly world on which science and modernity
are based.
[/quote]
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.
 
John Stafford...
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:04 am
 
In article <gku1d6pv6ntn40eeucvhg9uekm20t8tq2l at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <mikegray at (no spam) newsguy.com> wrote:

[quote]On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Immortalist
reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

In what we tell ourselves is an age of reason, we are behaving
increasingly irrationally. An astonishing number of people subscribe
to celebrity endorsed cults, Mayan armageddon prophecies, scientism,

"scientism"???
WTF is that when it has not been pulled out of your arse?
[/quote]
Learn up!

Scientism is a pejorative term for a viewpoint that science is the most
supreme interpretation of anything.
 
 
Page 1 of 4    Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:49 pm