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| Immortalist... |
 Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:52 pm |
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Guest
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Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
....AMY GOODMAN: Your book is called When China Rules the World.
Explain.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, quite simply, we’re living in extraordinary new
times, characterized by the rise of the developing world as opposed—
and the relative decline of the developed world, the rich world. And
the most important example of this trend is the rise of China, which
is projected to overtake the size of the American economy around 2027.
And by 2050, the Chinese economy will be twice the size of that of the
American economy. This represents—of course, it’s quite a long and
protracted process, but will fundamentally shift the economic center
of gravity in the world and will have also profound political and
cultural implications.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about those implications.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, there’s been a funny old assumption in the West
somehow that China’s rise is just an economic story. If you go to the
bookstores and look at what’s been written about the rise of China,
it’s almost solely economic, in a contemporary sense. But this is
obviously ridiculous, because the rise of a new global power always
ushers in the expression of a much more comprehensive political,
cultural, intellectual, military, moral influence, and this will in
time happen in China.
And that’s why I argue the end of the Western world, not that the West
is going to meet its maker and, you know, there’s going to be the
demise of the West. On the contrary, I mean, America will get richer,
as other Western countries will get richer. But it will no longer
shape the world, as it has in the last sixty years, or the West, in
general. For 200 years, we’ve lived in a Western-shaped world. That
era is progressively going to come to an end, as China becomes more
and more influential. And you can see this already happening in
certain parts of the world, much more than in the West. I mean, East
Asia is already being increasingly shaped by Chinese influence of many
different kinds.
AMY GOODMAN: Like?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for example, the rise of Mandarin in the region.
I mean, it’s already a compulsory language in several countries—
Thailand, for example, and South Korea. And I would expect Mandarin to
become, over the next fifty years, a second language in the region,
alongside English, maybe usurping English in the longer run. What
we’ve got to remember about East Asia is it’s home to one-third of the
world’s population, and it’s already the largest economic region in
the world. It’s bigger than North America, and it’s bigger than
Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you’ve got the issue of language. What are the other
issues where you’ll see this dominance? And also, what about China in
Africa?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, I think that we’ll—in all sorts of ways, we’ll
see Chinese ways of thinking, which are drawn from, you know, a very
powerful sense of its own history, influencing the world. I mean, let
me throw something out, you know, that China is not really even a
nation state in any conventional sense. Now, we’re so used to thinking
of countries as nation states. They arrived at something which isn’t
really a conventional nation state. It’s really a civilization state,
which thinks and acts in a completely different way to the way in
which Western states have operated. So this kind of—the Chinese way of
thinking will become—will begin to permeate those areas of the world
in which it—with which it comes into contact.
And, of course, over the last ten years, there’s been an extraordinary
change, which is that China has become extremely active, proactive
with many regions. Latin America is one example, but the most
dramatic, in a way, is Africa, which is a very short period of time.
But China is really becoming very rapidly the most important economic
partner of the African continent.
Now, how to understand this, I think, is going to be a very—you know,
it’s going to be a complex process. Generally, Westerners react by
saying, “Ah, maybe this is a new form of colonialism.” And it may be
that there will be elements of similarity. But personally, I would
suggest that if we want to understand the relationship between China
and Africa, maybe we should go back to something that, as Westerners,
we’re entirely unfamiliar with, which is the tributary state period,
which was the way in which China organized its relations with East
Asia for well over 2,000 years and only came to an end a hundred years
ago...
....AMY GOODMAN: ...Martin Jacques, what does it mean to say China is
the US’s largest creditor? What does that mean? How does that
determine US-Chinese relations?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, what it means is that America has been spending
beyond its means, not saving sufficiently, and in order to cover its
deficits, it’s been borrowing money by selling US bonds, government
bonds, and by far the biggest purchaser of these bonds has been China,
been a dramatic change over the last ten years. So now something like
$800 billion is held by the Chinese in US debt. In other words, the US
owes China, in effect, $800 billion of credit.
And what that means is that, for example, if the Chinese stop buying it
—they’re continuously buying them now, but if it started to stop
buying them in the way they have been buying them, or decided to sell
them, there would be a collapse in the value of the dollar, with
untold consequences for the position of the dollar as the global
reserve currency and the position of New York as the global financial
center. I mean, in effect, what’s happened is that China has become
the United States’s banker, and the United States owes its banker a
lot of money. That is obviously a powerful, very important shift in
the relationship.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s talk about this relationship and how it’s gone. I
think, for most Americans, they know about the Tiananmen massacre.
They know about the Olympics that took place in China. And now there’s
President Obama’s trip. Can you talk about how China has changed
through this period and also the US-Chinese relationship—you’re from
Britain—the West’s relationship with China?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for thirty years, ever since 1978, the Chinese
economy has been growing at around about ten percent a year, which is
phenomenal. Remember, this is a country with a population of 1.3
billion, a fifth of the world’s population. So that means that the
Chinese economy, in size, has been doubling every seven years. And it
also means that Chinese living standards have been proportionately
transformed. So, if you go to any of the big Chinese cities, and
notably Shanghai, Beijing and so on, you’ll see a very—in many ways,
very developed cities. But, of course, China is very diverse, so half
the population still lives in the countryside, and many people are
poor. But this transformation has meant that China has been
responsible for more than half the reduction in global poverty over
the last thirty years. So this is the most remarkable economic
transformation in human history.
Now, one of the problems is the West finds it, I think, very difficult
to understand the process that’s taken place. It’s had an agenda for
China, as it has an agenda for other countries, and it’s felt that
China should be more like us. Or this process—I mean, both the Clinton
and the Bush presidencies were informed by the idea that China’s
modernization would be a process of Westernization, in which China
would end up, in terms of political system, media and so on, like us.
And it hasn’t. It hasn’t. And I think this is raising a big question
for Western leaders, which is, so maybe China will not inevitably
become like us—in my opinion, it will not, because a country is shaped
not just by markets and technology and so on, but also by its history
and its culture. And this is something that Western hubris is not good
at addressing, because historically, for 200 years, we’ve always
thought that ultimately other cultures will bend to our will and
become like us, because we are the state of the art. And this will not
be true in relationship to China. It’s an illusion. And while this
illusion persists, our understanding of China will be limited.
We’ve made so many predictions about what would happen to China over
this period that have been wrong. You know, after Tiananmen Square,
China would divide. The Chinese Communist Party would wither away or
collapse like the Soviet Communist Party did after the fall of the
Berlin Wall. Didn’t happen. They offered—when Hong Kong was handed
over by Britain to Hong Kong—to China, China said, “One country, two
systems.” We said—we didn’t believe it. They meant it. They meant it.
It is one country, two systems. So, another prediction: the economic
growth would not last. It has lasted. So we’ve got China wrong in so
many ways. We need to rethink how we understand China, because it’s
never going to be a Western-style country.
AMY GOODMAN: You begin your book by citing Goldman Sachs, which
projects China’s economy will be bigger than the US by 2027, nearly
twice as large by 2050, though Chinese will still be poorer than
Americans. Explain that.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is a new phenomenon, really, because we’ve
never had before a developing country becoming one of the world’s
biggest economies. Hitherto in the Western world of the last 200
years, since the British Industrial Revolution started in 1780, every
country which has been top dog has been—had a big economy and a very
high standard of living, every—Britain, Germany, France and, of
course, the US. Now we’re in a different situation, where the biggest
economies in the world are increasingly going to be very populist
countries, and therefore they’ll have big economies, but they will
also have a relatively lower standard of living. This is a new
situation.
AMY GOODMAN: The latest news out of Xinjiang, China executing nine
people, the whole Uyghur rebellion. How does that fit into China’s
story?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is another aspect of China’s story which,
again, is something we need to try and understand better, which is
that, historically, the vast majority of the Chinese consider
themselves to be Han. The process of the creation, ethnic creation, of
modern China is the Han-ization of China. Over nine out of ten people
in China, very unlike India or the States, consider themselves to be
Han. It works really like a sort of mono-ethnic society. The result of
that is the Han, not just now, but over a long historical period, have
had a very weak conception of cultural difference. They don’t respect
cultural difference. And so, I think the problem in the Uyghurs in
Xinjiang and the Tibetans, for example, is that essentially the Han
want to Han-ize them. And that’s the difficulty, because they don’t
want to be Han-ized. They’re proud of their own culture, their
religion, their language, and so on. And so, one has to say that the
whole approach to the question of Tibet and Xinjiang has essentially
failed. That’s what the riots this year and last year represent.
AMY GOODMAN: And the whole issue of human rights overall?
MARTIN JACQUES: The whole—that is a related, but not the same,
question. The question of human rights, in general—I mean, China, I
think, generally has improved a lot in this area. I mean, you know,
developing countries have everywhere very mixed reputations in these
terms, because the whole issue of development out of poverty and so
on, you know, it’s an authoritarian life that people lead. They don’t
have choices in the way that we enjoy choices in the West. And so,
China has had a very indifferent human rights record. But so has
India, by the way, and that’s a democracy. But I think the situation
has got better, but it still leaves, you know, much room for
improvement...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/19/shunning_dissidents_obama_leaves_china_without
http://www.democracynow.org/ |
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| Immortalist... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:54 pm |
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Guest
|
On Nov 19, 7:17 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
[quote]http://www.abc.net.au/tv/geo/documentaries/interactive/addictedtomoney/
Episode 3 Addicted to Money - Peak Everything
Online video and downloadable for FREE via Australia's Publicly funded
broadcaster - something that Murdoch believes has an unfair advantage over
News Corp in providing quality online content and still being able to make a
profit - he wants the finding to Public broadcasters slashed so the "big
corporations" can compete on alevel playing field -- it[s only right ,
Right?
any way ... that was my commercial 10 second ad break --
[/quote]
It would be a fine way to cripple alternative media but Murdoch would
also himself have to sacrifice all government aid from any country
paying for his media corporations and he must have no tax breaks from
any country since that would be equivalent to an unfair advantage
wouldn't it?
In media theory, isn't a tax break the same as an unfair advantage
over those that cannot get these "breaks? |
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| Back to top |
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|
|
| Sean... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:17 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/geo/documentaries/interactive/addictedtomoney/
Episode 3 Addicted to Money - Peak Everything
Online video and downloadable for FREE via Australia's Publicly funded
broadcaster - something that Murdoch believes has an unfair advantage over
News Corp in providing quality online content and still being able to make a
profit - he wants the finding to Public broadcasters slashed so the "big
corporations" can compete on alevel playing field -- it[s only right ,
Right?
any way ... that was my commercial 10 second ad break --
at (no spam) 41 minutes
BYD a company in China .. ever heard of them? -- they used to make batteries
... now barely a few years later they have already become the BIGGEST Car
maker in China ... what do they sell ??
ELECTRIC CARS ... ONLY
Projections have them by 2025 as being the largest biggest car maker in the
world.
The Chinese have realised they do not need to compete with BMW, Mercedes, or
Ferrari ... those days of the internal combustion emgnie are over .. - so
China is recognising that they are capable of piggy back jumping the west
and skipping this whole oil based aspect of Transport.
In their base at Shenzen .. they have 8000 Engineers alone living on site
working 6 day weeks develoeping the latest in cutting edge electric car
technologies and production capacities.
What IS the USA Government doing with 60% of GM ..... ???
What has the USA Government and USA Industry been doing for the last 40
years ... ???
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
....AMY GOODMAN: Your book is called When China Rules the World.
Explain.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, quite simply, we’re living in extraordinary new
times, characterized by the rise of the developing world as opposed—
and the relative decline of the developed world, the rich world. And
the most important example of this trend is the rise of China, which
is projected to overtake the size of the American economy around 2027.
And by 2050, the Chinese economy will be twice the size of that of the
American economy. This represents—of course, it’s quite a long and
protracted process, but will fundamentally shift the economic center
of gravity in the world and will have also profound political and
cultural implications.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about those implications.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, there’s been a funny old assumption in the West
somehow that China’s rise is just an economic story. If you go to the
bookstores and look at what’s been written about the rise of China,
it’s almost solely economic, in a contemporary sense. But this is
obviously ridiculous, because the rise of a new global power always
ushers in the expression of a much more comprehensive political,
cultural, intellectual, military, moral influence, and this will in
time happen in China.
And that’s why I argue the end of the Western world, not that the West
is going to meet its maker and, you know, there’s going to be the
demise of the West. On the contrary, I mean, America will get richer,
as other Western countries will get richer. But it will no longer
shape the world, as it has in the last sixty years, or the West, in
general. For 200 years, we’ve lived in a Western-shaped world. That
era is progressively going to come to an end, as China becomes more
and more influential. And you can see this already happening in
certain parts of the world, much more than in the West. I mean, East
Asia is already being increasingly shaped by Chinese influence of many
different kinds.
AMY GOODMAN: Like?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for example, the rise of Mandarin in the region.
I mean, it’s already a compulsory language in several countries—
Thailand, for example, and South Korea. And I would expect Mandarin to
become, over the next fifty years, a second language in the region,
alongside English, maybe usurping English in the longer run. What
we’ve got to remember about East Asia is it’s home to one-third of the
world’s population, and it’s already the largest economic region in
the world. It’s bigger than North America, and it’s bigger than
Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you’ve got the issue of language. What are the other
issues where you’ll see this dominance? And also, what about China in
Africa?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, I think that we’ll—in all sorts of ways, we’ll
see Chinese ways of thinking, which are drawn from, you know, a very
powerful sense of its own history, influencing the world. I mean, let
me throw something out, you know, that China is not really even a
nation state in any conventional sense. Now, we’re so used to thinking
of countries as nation states. They arrived at something which isn’t
really a conventional nation state. It’s really a civilization state,
which thinks and acts in a completely different way to the way in
which Western states have operated. So this kind of—the Chinese way of
thinking will become—will begin to permeate those areas of the world
in which it—with which it comes into contact.
And, of course, over the last ten years, there’s been an extraordinary
change, which is that China has become extremely active, proactive
with many regions. Latin America is one example, but the most
dramatic, in a way, is Africa, which is a very short period of time.
But China is really becoming very rapidly the most important economic
partner of the African continent.
Now, how to understand this, I think, is going to be a very—you know,
it’s going to be a complex process. Generally, Westerners react by
saying, “Ah, maybe this is a new form of colonialism.” And it may be
that there will be elements of similarity. But personally, I would
suggest that if we want to understand the relationship between China
and Africa, maybe we should go back to something that, as Westerners,
we’re entirely unfamiliar with, which is the tributary state period,
which was the way in which China organized its relations with East
Asia for well over 2,000 years and only came to an end a hundred years
ago...
....AMY GOODMAN: ...Martin Jacques, what does it mean to say China is
the US’s largest creditor? What does that mean? How does that
determine US-Chinese relations?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, what it means is that America has been spending
beyond its means, not saving sufficiently, and in order to cover its
deficits, it’s been borrowing money by selling US bonds, government
bonds, and by far the biggest purchaser of these bonds has been China,
been a dramatic change over the last ten years. So now something like
$800 billion is held by the Chinese in US debt. In other words, the US
owes China, in effect, $800 billion of credit.
And what that means is that, for example, if the Chinese stop buying it
—they’re continuously buying them now, but if it started to stop
buying them in the way they have been buying them, or decided to sell
them, there would be a collapse in the value of the dollar, with
untold consequences for the position of the dollar as the global
reserve currency and the position of New York as the global financial
center. I mean, in effect, what’s happened is that China has become
the United States’s banker, and the United States owes its banker a
lot of money. That is obviously a powerful, very important shift in
the relationship.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s talk about this relationship and how it’s gone. I
think, for most Americans, they know about the Tiananmen massacre.
They know about the Olympics that took place in China. And now there’s
President Obama’s trip. Can you talk about how China has changed
through this period and also the US-Chinese relationship—you’re from
Britain—the West’s relationship with China?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for thirty years, ever since 1978, the Chinese
economy has been growing at around about ten percent a year, which is
phenomenal. Remember, this is a country with a population of 1.3
billion, a fifth of the world’s population. So that means that the
Chinese economy, in size, has been doubling every seven years. And it
also means that Chinese living standards have been proportionately
transformed. So, if you go to any of the big Chinese cities, and
notably Shanghai, Beijing and so on, you’ll see a very—in many ways,
very developed cities. But, of course, China is very diverse, so half
the population still lives in the countryside, and many people are
poor. But this transformation has meant that China has been
responsible for more than half the reduction in global poverty over
the last thirty years. So this is the most remarkable economic
transformation in human history.
Now, one of the problems is the West finds it, I think, very difficult
to understand the process that’s taken place. It’s had an agenda for
China, as it has an agenda for other countries, and it’s felt that
China should be more like us. Or this process—I mean, both the Clinton
and the Bush presidencies were informed by the idea that China’s
modernization would be a process of Westernization, in which China
would end up, in terms of political system, media and so on, like us.
And it hasn’t. It hasn’t. And I think this is raising a big question
for Western leaders, which is, so maybe China will not inevitably
become like us—in my opinion, it will not, because a country is shaped
not just by markets and technology and so on, but also by its history
and its culture. And this is something that Western hubris is not good
at addressing, because historically, for 200 years, we’ve always
thought that ultimately other cultures will bend to our will and
become like us, because we are the state of the art. And this will not
be true in relationship to China. It’s an illusion. And while this
illusion persists, our understanding of China will be limited.
We’ve made so many predictions about what would happen to China over
this period that have been wrong. You know, after Tiananmen Square,
China would divide. The Chinese Communist Party would wither away or
collapse like the Soviet Communist Party did after the fall of the
Berlin Wall. Didn’t happen. They offered—when Hong Kong was handed
over by Britain to Hong Kong—to China, China said, “One country, two
systems.” We said—we didn’t believe it. They meant it. They meant it.
It is one country, two systems. So, another prediction: the economic
growth would not last. It has lasted. So we’ve got China wrong in so
many ways. We need to rethink how we understand China, because it’s
never going to be a Western-style country.
AMY GOODMAN: You begin your book by citing Goldman Sachs, which
projects China’s economy will be bigger than the US by 2027, nearly
twice as large by 2050, though Chinese will still be poorer than
Americans. Explain that.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is a new phenomenon, really, because we’ve
never had before a developing country becoming one of the world’s
biggest economies. Hitherto in the Western world of the last 200
years, since the British Industrial Revolution started in 1780, every
country which has been top dog has been—had a big economy and a very
high standard of living, every—Britain, Germany, France and, of
course, the US. Now we’re in a different situation, where the biggest
economies in the world are increasingly going to be very populist
countries, and therefore they’ll have big economies, but they will
also have a relatively lower standard of living. This is a new
situation.
AMY GOODMAN: The latest news out of Xinjiang, China executing nine
people, the whole Uyghur rebellion. How does that fit into China’s
story?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is another aspect of China’s story which,
again, is something we need to try and understand better, which is
that, historically, the vast majority of the Chinese consider
themselves to be Han. The process of the creation, ethnic creation, of
modern China is the Han-ization of China. Over nine out of ten people
in China, very unlike India or the States, consider themselves to be
Han. It works really like a sort of mono-ethnic society. The result of
that is the Han, not just now, but over a long historical period, have
had a very weak conception of cultural difference. They don’t respect
cultural difference. And so, I think the problem in the Uyghurs in
Xinjiang and the Tibetans, for example, is that essentially the Han
want to Han-ize them. And that’s the difficulty, because they don’t
want to be Han-ized. They’re proud of their own culture, their
religion, their language, and so on. And so, one has to say that the
whole approach to the question of Tibet and Xinjiang has essentially
failed. That’s what the riots this year and last year represent.
AMY GOODMAN: And the whole issue of human rights overall?
MARTIN JACQUES: The whole—that is a related, but not the same,
question. The question of human rights, in general—I mean, China, I
think, generally has improved a lot in this area. I mean, you know,
developing countries have everywhere very mixed reputations in these
terms, because the whole issue of development out of poverty and so
on, you know, it’s an authoritarian life that people lead. They don’t
have choices in the way that we enjoy choices in the West. And so,
China has had a very indifferent human rights record. But so has
India, by the way, and that’s a democracy. But I think the situation
has got better, but it still leaves, you know, much room for
improvement...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/19/shunning_dissidents_obama_leaves_china_without
http://www.democracynow.org/ |
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| Back to top |
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| Sean... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:17 am |
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Guest
|
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ce2ad0c2-8d00-49d8-8d94-3821d2d7bf9e at (no spam) u8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 19, 7:17 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
[quote]http://www.abc.net.au/tv/geo/documentaries/interactive/addictedtomoney/
Episode 3 Addicted to Money - Peak Everything
Online video and downloadable for FREE via Australia's Publicly funded
broadcaster - something that Murdoch believes has an unfair advantage over
News Corp in providing quality online content and still being able to make
a
profit - he wants the finding to Public broadcasters slashed so the "big
corporations" can compete on alevel playing field -- it[s only right ,
Right?
any way ... that was my commercial 10 second ad break --
[/quote]
It would be a fine way to cripple alternative media but Murdoch would
also himself have to sacrifice all government aid from any country
paying for his media corporations and he must have no tax breaks from
any country since that would be equivalent to an unfair advantage
wouldn't it?
In media theory, isn't a tax break the same as an unfair advantage
over those that cannot get these "breaks?
===========
Of course it is , I was being reverse flippant Imm. -- .. if anyone wanted
to swap australias ABC public funded broadcaster for a FOX, they should
immediately check into a Psychiatric hospital ... and they deserve to have
their chickens in the coop eaten alive too.  |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:12 am |
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Guest
|
I can certainly vouch for the Chinese influence in South East Asia. Most of
the coutries have large Chinese minorities, often wealthy. Singapore is
majority Chinese and is itself very influencial. Malaysia less so but still
20-30% and largely the business class. All the peoples are clearly racialy
related, and the theory is that Chinese from Yunan province migrated
throughout the region, mixing with local Poleneisian etc. Even the Japanese,
Koreans and Vietnamese owe a lot culturally to Chinese culture, though they
would not like to admit it.
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
....AMY GOODMAN: Your book is called When China Rules the World.
Explain.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, quite simply, we’re living in extraordinary new
times, characterized by the rise of the developing world as opposed—
and the relative decline of the developed world, the rich world. And
the most important example of this trend is the rise of China, which
is projected to overtake the size of the American economy around 2027.
And by 2050, the Chinese economy will be twice the size of that of the
American economy. This represents—of course, it’s quite a long and
protracted process, but will fundamentally shift the economic center
of gravity in the world and will have also profound political and
cultural implications.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about those implications.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, there’s been a funny old assumption in the West
somehow that China’s rise is just an economic story. If you go to the
bookstores and look at what’s been written about the rise of China,
it’s almost solely economic, in a contemporary sense. But this is
obviously ridiculous, because the rise of a new global power always
ushers in the expression of a much more comprehensive political,
cultural, intellectual, military, moral influence, and this will in
time happen in China.
And that’s why I argue the end of the Western world, not that the West
is going to meet its maker and, you know, there’s going to be the
demise of the West. On the contrary, I mean, America will get richer,
as other Western countries will get richer. But it will no longer
shape the world, as it has in the last sixty years, or the West, in
general. For 200 years, we’ve lived in a Western-shaped world. That
era is progressively going to come to an end, as China becomes more
and more influential. And you can see this already happening in
certain parts of the world, much more than in the West. I mean, East
Asia is already being increasingly shaped by Chinese influence of many
different kinds.
AMY GOODMAN: Like?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for example, the rise of Mandarin in the region.
I mean, it’s already a compulsory language in several countries—
Thailand, for example, and South Korea. And I would expect Mandarin to
become, over the next fifty years, a second language in the region,
alongside English, maybe usurping English in the longer run. What
we’ve got to remember about East Asia is it’s home to one-third of the
world’s population, and it’s already the largest economic region in
the world. It’s bigger than North America, and it’s bigger than
Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you’ve got the issue of language. What are the other
issues where you’ll see this dominance? And also, what about China in
Africa?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, I think that we’ll—in all sorts of ways, we’ll
see Chinese ways of thinking, which are drawn from, you know, a very
powerful sense of its own history, influencing the world. I mean, let
me throw something out, you know, that China is not really even a
nation state in any conventional sense. Now, we’re so used to thinking
of countries as nation states. They arrived at something which isn’t
really a conventional nation state. It’s really a civilization state,
which thinks and acts in a completely different way to the way in
which Western states have operated. So this kind of—the Chinese way of
thinking will become—will begin to permeate those areas of the world
in which it—with which it comes into contact.
And, of course, over the last ten years, there’s been an extraordinary
change, which is that China has become extremely active, proactive
with many regions. Latin America is one example, but the most
dramatic, in a way, is Africa, which is a very short period of time.
But China is really becoming very rapidly the most important economic
partner of the African continent.
Now, how to understand this, I think, is going to be a very—you know,
it’s going to be a complex process. Generally, Westerners react by
saying, “Ah, maybe this is a new form of colonialism.” And it may be
that there will be elements of similarity. But personally, I would
suggest that if we want to understand the relationship between China
and Africa, maybe we should go back to something that, as Westerners,
we’re entirely unfamiliar with, which is the tributary state period,
which was the way in which China organized its relations with East
Asia for well over 2,000 years and only came to an end a hundred years
ago...
....AMY GOODMAN: ...Martin Jacques, what does it mean to say China is
the US’s largest creditor? What does that mean? How does that
determine US-Chinese relations?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, what it means is that America has been spending
beyond its means, not saving sufficiently, and in order to cover its
deficits, it’s been borrowing money by selling US bonds, government
bonds, and by far the biggest purchaser of these bonds has been China,
been a dramatic change over the last ten years. So now something like
$800 billion is held by the Chinese in US debt. In other words, the US
owes China, in effect, $800 billion of credit.
And what that means is that, for example, if the Chinese stop buying it
—they’re continuously buying them now, but if it started to stop
buying them in the way they have been buying them, or decided to sell
them, there would be a collapse in the value of the dollar, with
untold consequences for the position of the dollar as the global
reserve currency and the position of New York as the global financial
center. I mean, in effect, what’s happened is that China has become
the United States’s banker, and the United States owes its banker a
lot of money. That is obviously a powerful, very important shift in
the relationship.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s talk about this relationship and how it’s gone. I
think, for most Americans, they know about the Tiananmen massacre.
They know about the Olympics that took place in China. And now there’s
President Obama’s trip. Can you talk about how China has changed
through this period and also the US-Chinese relationship—you’re from
Britain—the West’s relationship with China?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for thirty years, ever since 1978, the Chinese
economy has been growing at around about ten percent a year, which is
phenomenal. Remember, this is a country with a population of 1.3
billion, a fifth of the world’s population. So that means that the
Chinese economy, in size, has been doubling every seven years. And it
also means that Chinese living standards have been proportionately
transformed. So, if you go to any of the big Chinese cities, and
notably Shanghai, Beijing and so on, you’ll see a very—in many ways,
very developed cities. But, of course, China is very diverse, so half
the population still lives in the countryside, and many people are
poor. But this transformation has meant that China has been
responsible for more than half the reduction in global poverty over
the last thirty years. So this is the most remarkable economic
transformation in human history.
Now, one of the problems is the West finds it, I think, very difficult
to understand the process that’s taken place. It’s had an agenda for
China, as it has an agenda for other countries, and it’s felt that
China should be more like us. Or this process—I mean, both the Clinton
and the Bush presidencies were informed by the idea that China’s
modernization would be a process of Westernization, in which China
would end up, in terms of political system, media and so on, like us.
And it hasn’t. It hasn’t. And I think this is raising a big question
for Western leaders, which is, so maybe China will not inevitably
become like us—in my opinion, it will not, because a country is shaped
not just by markets and technology and so on, but also by its history
and its culture. And this is something that Western hubris is not good
at addressing, because historically, for 200 years, we’ve always
thought that ultimately other cultures will bend to our will and
become like us, because we are the state of the art. And this will not
be true in relationship to China. It’s an illusion. And while this
illusion persists, our understanding of China will be limited.
We’ve made so many predictions about what would happen to China over
this period that have been wrong. You know, after Tiananmen Square,
China would divide. The Chinese Communist Party would wither away or
collapse like the Soviet Communist Party did after the fall of the
Berlin Wall. Didn’t happen. They offered—when Hong Kong was handed
over by Britain to Hong Kong—to China, China said, “One country, two
systems.” We said—we didn’t believe it. They meant it. They meant it.
It is one country, two systems. So, another prediction: the economic
growth would not last. It has lasted. So we’ve got China wrong in so
many ways. We need to rethink how we understand China, because it’s
never going to be a Western-style country.
AMY GOODMAN: You begin your book by citing Goldman Sachs, which
projects China’s economy will be bigger than the US by 2027, nearly
twice as large by 2050, though Chinese will still be poorer than
Americans. Explain that.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is a new phenomenon, really, because we’ve
never had before a developing country becoming one of the world’s
biggest economies. Hitherto in the Western world of the last 200
years, since the British Industrial Revolution started in 1780, every
country which has been top dog has been—had a big economy and a very
high standard of living, every—Britain, Germany, France and, of
course, the US. Now we’re in a different situation, where the biggest
economies in the world are increasingly going to be very populist
countries, and therefore they’ll have big economies, but they will
also have a relatively lower standard of living. This is a new
situation.
AMY GOODMAN: The latest news out of Xinjiang, China executing nine
people, the whole Uyghur rebellion. How does that fit into China’s
story?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is another aspect of China’s story which,
again, is something we need to try and understand better, which is
that, historically, the vast majority of the Chinese consider
themselves to be Han. The process of the creation, ethnic creation, of
modern China is the Han-ization of China. Over nine out of ten people
in China, very unlike India or the States, consider themselves to be
Han. It works really like a sort of mono-ethnic society. The result of
that is the Han, not just now, but over a long historical period, have
had a very weak conception of cultural difference. They don’t respect
cultural difference. And so, I think the problem in the Uyghurs in
Xinjiang and the Tibetans, for example, is that essentially the Han
want to Han-ize them. And that’s the difficulty, because they don’t
want to be Han-ized. They’re proud of their own culture, their
religion, their language, and so on. And so, one has to say that the
whole approach to the question of Tibet and Xinjiang has essentially
failed. That’s what the riots this year and last year represent.
AMY GOODMAN: And the whole issue of human rights overall?
MARTIN JACQUES: The whole—that is a related, but not the same,
question. The question of human rights, in general—I mean, China, I
think, generally has improved a lot in this area. I mean, you know,
developing countries have everywhere very mixed reputations in these
terms, because the whole issue of development out of poverty and so
on, you know, it’s an authoritarian life that people lead. They don’t
have choices in the way that we enjoy choices in the West. And so,
China has had a very indifferent human rights record. But so has
India, by the way, and that’s a democracy. But I think the situation
has got better, but it still leaves, you know, much room for
improvement...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/19/shunning_dissidents_obama_leaves_china_without
http://www.democracynow.org/ |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:13 am |
|
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Guest
|
"Sean" <here at (no spam) home.net> wrote in message
news:4b060a35$0$11509$afc38c87 at (no spam) news.optusnet.com.au...
[quote]http://www.abc.net.au/tv/geo/documentaries/interactive/addictedtomoney/
Episode 3 Addicted to Money - Peak Everything
Online video and downloadable for FREE via Australia's Publicly funded
broadcaster - something that Murdoch believes has an unfair advantage over
News Corp in providing quality online content and still being able to make
a profit - he wants the finding to Public broadcasters slashed so the "big
corporations" can compete on alevel playing field -- it[s only right ,
Right?
[/quote]
Yeah, how can a guy make 10 billion with that kind unlevel playing field! |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:15 am |
|
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Guest
|
Sorry
Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by
people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you
are not authorised to view this video.
"Sean" <here at (no spam) home.net> wrote in message
news:4b060a35$0$11509$afc38c87 at (no spam) news.optusnet.com.au...
[quote]http://www.abc.net.au/tv/geo/documentaries/interactive/addictedtomoney/
Episode 3 Addicted to Money - Peak Everything
Online video and downloadable for FREE via Australia's Publicly funded
broadcaster - something that Murdoch believes has an unfair advantage over
News Corp in providing quality online content and still being able to make
a profit - he wants the finding to Public broadcasters slashed so the "big
corporations" can compete on alevel playing field -- it[s only right ,
Right?
any way ... that was my commercial 10 second ad break --
at (no spam) 41 minutes
BYD a company in China .. ever heard of them? -- they used to make
batteries .. now barely a few years later they have already become the
BIGGEST Car maker in China ... what do they sell ??
ELECTRIC CARS ... ONLY
Projections have them by 2025 as being the largest biggest car maker in
the world.
The Chinese have realised they do not need to compete with BMW, Mercedes,
or Ferrari ... those days of the internal combustion emgnie are over .. -
so China is recognising that they are capable of piggy back jumping the
west and skipping this whole oil based aspect of Transport.
In their base at Shenzen .. they have 8000 Engineers alone living on site
working 6 day weeks develoeping the latest in cutting edge electric car
technologies and production capacities.
What IS the USA Government doing with 60% of GM ..... ???
What has the USA Government and USA Industry been doing for the last 40
years ... ???
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
...AMY GOODMAN: Your book is called When China Rules the World.
Explain.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, quite simply, we're living in extraordinary new
times, characterized by the rise of the developing world as opposed-
and the relative decline of the developed world, the rich world. And
the most important example of this trend is the rise of China, which
is projected to overtake the size of the American economy around 2027.
And by 2050, the Chinese economy will be twice the size of that of the
American economy. This represents-of course, it's quite a long and
protracted process, but will fundamentally shift the economic center
of gravity in the world and will have also profound political and
cultural implications.
AMY GOODMAN: Talk about those implications.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, there's been a funny old assumption in the West
somehow that China's rise is just an economic story. If you go to the
bookstores and look at what's been written about the rise of China,
it's almost solely economic, in a contemporary sense. But this is
obviously ridiculous, because the rise of a new global power always
ushers in the expression of a much more comprehensive political,
cultural, intellectual, military, moral influence, and this will in
time happen in China.
And that's why I argue the end of the Western world, not that the West
is going to meet its maker and, you know, there's going to be the
demise of the West. On the contrary, I mean, America will get richer,
as other Western countries will get richer. But it will no longer
shape the world, as it has in the last sixty years, or the West, in
general. For 200 years, we've lived in a Western-shaped world. That
era is progressively going to come to an end, as China becomes more
and more influential. And you can see this already happening in
certain parts of the world, much more than in the West. I mean, East
Asia is already being increasingly shaped by Chinese influence of many
different kinds.
AMY GOODMAN: Like?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for example, the rise of Mandarin in the region.
I mean, it's already a compulsory language in several countries-
Thailand, for example, and South Korea. And I would expect Mandarin to
become, over the next fifty years, a second language in the region,
alongside English, maybe usurping English in the longer run. What
we've got to remember about East Asia is it's home to one-third of the
world's population, and it's already the largest economic region in
the world. It's bigger than North America, and it's bigger than
Europe.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you've got the issue of language. What are the other
issues where you'll see this dominance? And also, what about China in
Africa?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, I think that we'll-in all sorts of ways, we'll
see Chinese ways of thinking, which are drawn from, you know, a very
powerful sense of its own history, influencing the world. I mean, let
me throw something out, you know, that China is not really even a
nation state in any conventional sense. Now, we're so used to thinking
of countries as nation states. They arrived at something which isn't
really a conventional nation state. It's really a civilization state,
which thinks and acts in a completely different way to the way in
which Western states have operated. So this kind of-the Chinese way of
thinking will become-will begin to permeate those areas of the world
in which it-with which it comes into contact.
And, of course, over the last ten years, there's been an extraordinary
change, which is that China has become extremely active, proactive
with many regions. Latin America is one example, but the most
dramatic, in a way, is Africa, which is a very short period of time.
But China is really becoming very rapidly the most important economic
partner of the African continent.
Now, how to understand this, I think, is going to be a very-you know,
it's going to be a complex process. Generally, Westerners react by
saying, "Ah, maybe this is a new form of colonialism." And it may be
that there will be elements of similarity. But personally, I would
suggest that if we want to understand the relationship between China
and Africa, maybe we should go back to something that, as Westerners,
we're entirely unfamiliar with, which is the tributary state period,
which was the way in which China organized its relations with East
Asia for well over 2,000 years and only came to an end a hundred years
ago...
...AMY GOODMAN: ...Martin Jacques, what does it mean to say China is
the US's largest creditor? What does that mean? How does that
determine US-Chinese relations?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, what it means is that America has been spending
beyond its means, not saving sufficiently, and in order to cover its
deficits, it's been borrowing money by selling US bonds, government
bonds, and by far the biggest purchaser of these bonds has been China,
been a dramatic change over the last ten years. So now something like
$800 billion is held by the Chinese in US debt. In other words, the US
owes China, in effect, $800 billion of credit.
And what that means is that, for example, if the Chinese stop buying it
-they're continuously buying them now, but if it started to stop
buying them in the way they have been buying them, or decided to sell
them, there would be a collapse in the value of the dollar, with
untold consequences for the position of the dollar as the global
reserve currency and the position of New York as the global financial
center. I mean, in effect, what's happened is that China has become
the United States's banker, and the United States owes its banker a
lot of money. That is obviously a powerful, very important shift in
the relationship.
AMY GOODMAN: Let's talk about this relationship and how it's gone. I
think, for most Americans, they know about the Tiananmen massacre.
They know about the Olympics that took place in China. And now there's
President Obama's trip. Can you talk about how China has changed
through this period and also the US-Chinese relationship-you're from
Britain-the West's relationship with China?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, for thirty years, ever since 1978, the Chinese
economy has been growing at around about ten percent a year, which is
phenomenal. Remember, this is a country with a population of 1.3
billion, a fifth of the world's population. So that means that the
Chinese economy, in size, has been doubling every seven years. And it
also means that Chinese living standards have been proportionately
transformed. So, if you go to any of the big Chinese cities, and
notably Shanghai, Beijing and so on, you'll see a very-in many ways,
very developed cities. But, of course, China is very diverse, so half
the population still lives in the countryside, and many people are
poor. But this transformation has meant that China has been
responsible for more than half the reduction in global poverty over
the last thirty years. So this is the most remarkable economic
transformation in human history.
Now, one of the problems is the West finds it, I think, very difficult
to understand the process that's taken place. It's had an agenda for
China, as it has an agenda for other countries, and it's felt that
China should be more like us. Or this process-I mean, both the Clinton
and the Bush presidencies were informed by the idea that China's
modernization would be a process of Westernization, in which China
would end up, in terms of political system, media and so on, like us.
And it hasn't. It hasn't. And I think this is raising a big question
for Western leaders, which is, so maybe China will not inevitably
become like us-in my opinion, it will not, because a country is shaped
not just by markets and technology and so on, but also by its history
and its culture. And this is something that Western hubris is not good
at addressing, because historically, for 200 years, we've always
thought that ultimately other cultures will bend to our will and
become like us, because we are the state of the art. And this will not
be true in relationship to China. It's an illusion. And while this
illusion persists, our understanding of China will be limited.
We've made so many predictions about what would happen to China over
this period that have been wrong. You know, after Tiananmen Square,
China would divide. The Chinese Communist Party would wither away or
collapse like the Soviet Communist Party did after the fall of the
Berlin Wall. Didn't happen. They offered-when Hong Kong was handed
over by Britain to Hong Kong-to China, China said, "One country, two
systems." We said-we didn't believe it. They meant it. They meant it.
It is one country, two systems. So, another prediction: the economic
growth would not last. It has lasted. So we've got China wrong in so
many ways. We need to rethink how we understand China, because it's
never going to be a Western-style country.
AMY GOODMAN: You begin your book by citing Goldman Sachs, which
projects China's economy will be bigger than the US by 2027, nearly
twice as large by 2050, though Chinese will still be poorer than
Americans. Explain that.
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is a new phenomenon, really, because we've
never had before a developing country becoming one of the world's
biggest economies. Hitherto in the Western world of the last 200
years, since the British Industrial Revolution started in 1780, every
country which has been top dog has been-had a big economy and a very
high standard of living, every-Britain, Germany, France and, of
course, the US. Now we're in a different situation, where the biggest
economies in the world are increasingly going to be very populist
countries, and therefore they'll have big economies, but they will
also have a relatively lower standard of living. This is a new
situation.
AMY GOODMAN: The latest news out of Xinjiang, China executing nine
people, the whole Uyghur rebellion. How does that fit into China's
story?
MARTIN JACQUES: Well, this is another aspect of China's story which,
again, is something we need to try and understand better, which is
that, historically, the vast majority of the Chinese consider
themselves to be Han. The process of the creation, ethnic creation, of
modern China is the Han-ization of China. Over nine out of ten people
in China, very unlike India or the States, consider themselves to be
Han. It works really like a sort of mono-ethnic society. The result of
that is the Han, not just now, but over a long historical period, have
had a very weak conception of cultural difference. They don't respect
cultural difference. And so, I think the problem in the Uyghurs in
Xinjiang and the Tibetans, for example, is that essentially the Han
want to Han-ize them. And that's the difficulty, because they don't
want to be Han-ized. They're proud of their own culture, their
religion, their language, and so on. And so, one has to say that the
whole approach to the question of Tibet and Xinjiang has essentially
failed. That's what the riots this year and last year represent.
AMY GOODMAN: And the whole issue of human rights overall?
MARTIN JACQUES: The whole-that is a related, but not the same,
question. The question of human rights, in general-I mean, China, I
think, generally has improved a lot in this area. I mean, you know,
developing countries have everywhere very mixed reputations in these
terms, because the whole issue of development out of poverty and so
on, you know, it's an authoritarian life that people lead. They don't
have choices in the way that we enjoy choices in the West. And so,
China has had a very indifferent human rights record. But so has
India, by the way, and that's a democracy. But I think the situation
has got better, but it still leaves, you know, much room for
improvement...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/19/shunning_dissidents_obama_leaves_china_without
http://www.democracynow.org/
[/quote] |
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| Sean... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:22 am |
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Guest
|
ooops ... sorry, I didn't realise that. :(
"Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)holme at (no spam) yahoo.co> wrote in
message news:B-WdnR6D8o_dzZvWnZ2dnUVZ8oidnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote]Sorry
Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by
people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you
are not authorised to view this video.
[/quote] |
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| Nickname unavailable... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:18 am |
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Guest
|
On Nov 20, 10:06 am, "Econotron" <nore... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"Immortalist" <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
[snip]
==================================================================
Let's not project too far. Life is full of surprises.
e.
[/quote]
as long as america is being run by MAOSIT sympathizers from both
parties, and lots of famous crank free market stink tanks influence
american policy, do not be to surprised to find someday you are a
coolie. i have heard many of these traitors in government and free
market elitists in america, say be prepared, learn manderine. they are
proudly, arrogantly, in public, showing off their MAOIST sympathies. |
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| ZerkonXXXX... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:05 am |
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Guest
|
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:17:07 +1100, Sean wrote:
[quote]BYD a company in China .. ever heard of them? -- they used to make
batteries .. now barely a few years later they have already become the
BIGGEST Car maker in China ... what do they sell ??
ELECTRIC CARS ... ONLY
What has the USA Government and USA Industry been doing for the last 40
years ... ???
[/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
The above illustrates most everything else. From banking to food
production.
This car or these types of cars could have been on the US/World market at
least 20 years ago and it would not have taken "8000 engineers working 6
days a week" to do it. The national will to do this was present in the
mid to late 70's.
[quote]Murdoch believes...
[/quote]
http://brasschecktv.com/page/648.html |
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| Econotron... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:06 am |
|
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Guest
|
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
[snip]
===================================================================
Let's not project too far. Life is full of surprises.
e. |
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| Nickname unavailable... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:59 pm |
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Guest
|
On Nov 20, 3:22 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
[quote]"Nickname unavailable" <Vide... at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:8e145591-48c7-4318-bbf4-231fe403a543 at (no spam) e31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 20, 10:06 am, "Econotron" <nore... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com....
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
[snip]
==================================================================
Let's not project too far. Life is full of surprises.
e.
as long as america is being run by MAOSIT sympathizers from both
parties, and lots of famous crank free market stink tanks influence
american policy, do not be to surprised to find someday you are a
coolie. i have heard many of these traitors in government and free
market elitists in america, say be prepared, learn manderine. they are
proudly, arrogantly, in public, showing off their MAOIST sympathies.
==
What is a maoist?
The basic tenets of Maoism include revolutionary struggle of the vast
majority of people against the exploiting classes and their state
structures, termed a People's War.
Usually involving peasants, its military strategies have involved guerrilla
war tactics focused on surrounding the cities from the countryside, with a
heavy emphasis on political transformation through the mass involvement of
the basic people of the society.
Maoism departs from conventional European-inspired Marxism in that its focus
is on the agrarian countryside, rather than the industrial urban forces.
This is known as Agrarian socialism. Notably, Maoist parties in Peru, Nepal
and Philippines have adopted equal stresses on urban and rural areas,
depending on the country's level of development.
==
glad we cleared that all up - best wishes with finding a better word to
describe your frustrations.
[/quote]
then you have missed the guerrilla war that the MOAIST government has
waged on the west, using coolies. its not my frustrations that you
have addressed, me thinks its your way of soothing your conscience.
the MAOISTS are still in power.
http://www.newser.com/story/55654/as-capitalism-crumbles-chinese-embrace-mao-marx.html
As Capitalism Crumbles, Chinese Embrace Mao, Marx
By Harry Kimball| Posted Apr 8, 09 12:29 PM CDT|
Share
(NEWSER) – The woes of international capitalism are fueling renewed
interest in the ur-texts of Chinese Communism, MSNBC reports. Sales of
Karl Marx’s Das Kapital and Mao’s “little red book” are skyrocketing
in China, where the publisher of Kapital has seen a fivefold increase
in sales since late last year. The German publisher of the
anticapitalist work is also doing swift business. “The financial
crisis brought us a huge bump,” he said.
“We’ve been wading across the stream by feeling the way, trying to
reach the other side of the stream in capitalism,” one Chinese
professor said. “Now the building on the bank has collapsed, and we
realize maybe we had a wrong goal.” The books by Marx and Mao, nearly
ubiquitous decades ago, fell out of favor during China’s capitalist
experiment. A return is natural “when we find what we believed earlier
isn’t always correct,” the professor explained. |
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| Nickname unavailable... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:38 pm |
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Guest
|
On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
[quote]"Nickname unavailable" <Vide... at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:818164e4-d3eb-42eb-a270-0738a27e88f8 at (no spam) r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 20, 3:22 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" <Vide... at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:8e145591-48c7-4318-bbf4-231fe403a543 at (no spam) e31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com....
On Nov 20, 10:06 am, "Econotron" <nore... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com....
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
[snip]
==================================================================
Let's not project too far. Life is full of surprises.
e.
as long as america is being run by MAOSIT sympathizers from both
parties, and lots of famous crank free market stink tanks influence
american policy, do not be to surprised to find someday you are a
coolie. i have heard many of these traitors in government and free
market elitists in america, say be prepared, learn manderine. they are
proudly, arrogantly, in public, showing off their MAOIST sympathies.
==
What is a maoist?
The basic tenets of Maoism include revolutionary struggle of the vast
majority of people against the exploiting classes and their state
structures, termed a People's War.
Usually involving peasants, its military strategies have involved
guerrilla
war tactics focused on surrounding the cities from the countryside, with a
heavy emphasis on political transformation through the mass involvement of
the basic people of the society.
Maoism departs from conventional European-inspired Marxism in that its
focus
is on the agrarian countryside, rather than the industrial urban forces..
This is known as Agrarian socialism. Notably, Maoist parties in Peru,
Nepal
and Philippines have adopted equal stresses on urban and rural areas,
depending on the country's level of development.
==
glad we cleared that all up - best wishes with finding a better word to
describe your frustrations. :)
then you have missed the guerrilla war that the MOAIST government has
waged on the west, using coolies.
--
Who held a gun to your head and said Buy Made In China?
Was it Walmart?
Who was so desperate for $$ they sold them the $800 Billion in US Bonds?
All good questions imho ....
======================
its not my frustrations that you
have addressed, me thinks its your way of soothing your conscience.
the MAOISTS are still in power.
--
It's none of my business who is the Govt of China .. that would be up to the
Chinese wouldn't it, just as it is in the USA, or anywhere else -
dictatorship or not.
The Chinese never helped George Washington win the colonial war so as to
create a better system of Government did they?
They sure as shit kicked a lot of japanese ass though in WW2 as Key forces
of the Allies in WW2 ... see ?
Does the closing link mean you want to *Ban Books* and Historical knowledge
as well?
http://www.newser.com/story/55654/as-capitalism-crumbles-chinese-embr...
As Capitalism Crumbles, Chinese Embrace Mao, Marx
By Harry Kimball| Posted Apr 8, 09 12:29 PM CDT|
[/quote]
are you a crank? your ramblings make no sense at all. |
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| Sean... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:22 pm |
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Guest
|
"Nickname unavailable" <Video61 at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:8e145591-48c7-4318-bbf4-231fe403a543 at (no spam) e31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 20, 10:06 am, "Econotron" <nore... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"Immortalist" <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
[snip]
===================================================================
Let's not project too far. Life is full of surprises.
e.
[/quote]
as long as america is being run by MAOSIT sympathizers from both
parties, and lots of famous crank free market stink tanks influence
american policy, do not be to surprised to find someday you are a
coolie. i have heard many of these traitors in government and free
market elitists in america, say be prepared, learn manderine. they are
proudly, arrogantly, in public, showing off their MAOIST sympathies.
===
What is a maoist?
The basic tenets of Maoism include revolutionary struggle of the vast
majority of people against the exploiting classes and their state
structures, termed a People's War.
Usually involving peasants, its military strategies have involved guerrilla
war tactics focused on surrounding the cities from the countryside, with a
heavy emphasis on political transformation through the mass involvement of
the basic people of the society.
Maoism departs from conventional European-inspired Marxism in that its focus
is on the agrarian countryside, rather than the industrial urban forces.
This is known as Agrarian socialism. Notably, Maoist parties in Peru, Nepal
and Philippines have adopted equal stresses on urban and rural areas,
depending on the country's level of development.
===
glad we cleared that all up - best wishes with finding a better word to
describe your frustrations. |
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| Back to top |
|
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| Nickname unavailable... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:53 pm |
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Guest
|
On Nov 20, 9:33 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
[quote]"Nickname unavailable" <Vide... at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:07ed6afd-f95c-432b-afc5-3a742caa2317 at (no spam) 1g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" <Vide... at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:818164e4-d3eb-42eb-a270-0738a27e88f8 at (no spam) r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com....
On Nov 20, 3:22 pm, "Sean" <h... at (no spam) home.net> wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" <Vide... at (no spam) tcq.net> wrote in message
news:8e145591-48c7-4318-bbf4-231fe403a543 at (no spam) e31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com....
On Nov 20, 10:06 am, "Econotron" <nore... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:721c8193-bb32-4136-8901-1fe86908d663 at (no spam) w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Martin Jacques, British journalist, academic and author of When China
Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New
Global Order. ...
[snip]
==================================================================
Let's not project too far. Life is full of surprises.
e.
as long as america is being run by MAOSIT sympathizers from both
parties, and lots of famous crank free market stink tanks influence
american policy, do not be to surprised to find someday you are a
coolie. i have heard many of these traitors in government and free
market elitists in america, say be prepared, learn manderine. they are
proudly, arrogantly, in public, showing off their MAOIST sympathies.
==
What is a maoist?
The basic tenets of Maoism include revolutionary struggle of the vast
majority of people against the exploiting classes and their state
structures, termed a People's War.
Usually involving peasants, its military strategies have involved
guerrilla
war tactics focused on surrounding the cities from the countryside, with
a
heavy emphasis on political transformation through the mass involvement
of
the basic people of the society.
Maoism departs from conventional European-inspired Marxism in that its
focus
is on the agrarian countryside, rather than the industrial urban forces.
This is known as Agrarian socialism. Notably, Maoist parties in Peru,
Nepal
and Philippines have adopted equal stresses on urban and rural areas,
depending on the country's level of development.
==
glad we cleared that all up - best wishes with finding a better word to
describe your frustrations. :)
then you have missed the guerrilla war that the MOAIST government has
waged on the west, using coolies.
--
Who held a gun to your head and said Buy Made In China?
Was it Walmart?
Who was so desperate for $$ they sold them the $800 Billion in US Bonds?
All good questions imho ....
======================
its not my frustrations that you
have addressed, me thinks its your way of soothing your conscience.
the MAOISTS are still in power.
--
It's none of my business who is the Govt of China .. that would be up to
the
Chinese wouldn't it, just as it is in the USA, or anywhere else -
dictatorship or not.
The Chinese never helped George Washington win the colonial war so as to
create a better system of Government did they?
They sure as shit kicked a lot of japanese ass though in WW2 as Key forces
of the Allies in WW2 ... see ?
Does the closing link mean you want to *Ban Books* and Historical
knowledge
as well?
http://www.newser.com/story/55654/as-capitalism-crumbles-chinese-embr...
As Capitalism Crumbles, Chinese Embrace Mao, Marx
By Harry Kimball| Posted Apr 8, 09 12:29 PM CDT|
are you a crank? your ramblings make no sense at all.
======
Then that is good, it is a sign that you are making some good progress now
and actually engaging your God given / evolutionary given talents . well
done, they are not to be wasted.
[/quote]
then you admit that your blubbering rant was that of a madman. |
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