| Science Forum Index » Electronics - Components Forum » ICL5610, what is that?... |
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| jodleren... |
 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:11 am |
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Guest
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Hello
I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM 
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?
And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?
I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists
Any help apriciated.
WBR
Sonnich |
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| Tim Shoppa... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:51 am |
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On Nov 6, 9:11 am, jodleren <sonn... at (no spam) hot.ee> wrote:
[quote]Hello
I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?
And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?
I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists
[/quote]
Bipolar PROM's are very stable. Not infinite-lived but better than say
UV EPROM's or today's flash memory.
30 years ago they were often used mixed in with random logic for
simple decoders etc. sorta like PAL's were used in the 80's and early
90's.
Tim. |
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| jodleren... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:25 am |
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On Nov 6, 5:02 pm, Rafael Deliano <Rafael_DelianoENTFER... at (no spam) t-
online.de> wrote:
[quote] > replaced by 82S123http://www.embeddedFORTH.de/temp/82s123.pdf
I still dont know what they are doing,
The good news is that you can read them out,
they are not old PLDs.
But they may be hard to replace. Old PROMs
( hopefully unused ) do show up at ebay
from time to time. But the manufacturers
rarely published the specs how to program
them.
[/quote]
Thanks, I will look at it. Basically I should replace that old part,
but e.g. those 5 chips make it a bit harder :)
WBR
Sonnich |
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| Rafael Deliano... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:02 am |
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[quote]replaced by 82S123
http://www.embeddedFORTH.de/temp/82s123.pdf[/quote]
[quote]I still dont know what they are doing,
The good news is that you can read them out,[/quote]
they are not old PLDs.
But they may be hard to replace. Old PROMs
( hopefully unused ) do show up at ebay
from time to time. But the manufacturers
rarely published the specs how to program
them.
MfG JRD |
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| petrus bitbyter... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:26 am |
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"jodleren" <sonnich at (no spam) hot.ee> schreef in bericht
news:723ada54-20f2-4acd-bc85-0b1892974a04 at (no spam) p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
[quote]Hello
I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?
And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?
I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists
Any help apriciated.
WBR
Sonnich
[/quote]
FAIK the 82S123 and is predecessor the 82S23 are 32 bytes Schottky TTL PROMs
first introduced by Signetics. At the time they were fast, reliable and
power hungry. Don't know whether modern programmers can read/write them but
as they are very small PROMs, you can easily read them "by hand" on a simple
breadboard.
Compatible chips were produced by Texas and AMD amongst others. That
compatibilty did *not* cover the programming specifications. So if you want
to program that chips yourself you'll have to make absolutely sure your
programmer can handle the type at hand.
Though the 82S123 may not be available anymore, I saw some compatibles
offered lately. Priced $5.-
petrus bitbyter |
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| Rafael Deliano... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:55 am |
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[quote]Basically I should replace that old part,
but e.g. those 5 chips make it a bit harder
[/quote]
Getting new compatible PROMs for the
old boards is not very viable.
If there is space it may be easier to plug
a small board in the socket that contains
another IC. Perhaps a GAL 16V8 will be
sufficient. Timing, insufficient drivelevel
of outputs may cause subtle problems.
A cleaner approach is often analyzing the
function of the old board and replacing it
with a new board and modern parts ( CPLDs ).
MfG JRD |
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| petrus bitbyter... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:20 pm |
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"Rafael Deliano" <Rafael_DelianoENTFERNEN at (no spam) t-online.de> schreef in bericht
news:hd1kdr$9q0$03$1 at (no spam) news.t-online.com...
[quote]Basically I should replace that old part,
but e.g. those 5 chips make it a bit harder :)
Getting new compatible PROMs for the
old boards is not very viable.
If there is space it may be easier to plug
a small board in the socket that contains
another IC. Perhaps a GAL 16V8 will be
sufficient. Timing, insufficient drivelevel
of outputs may cause subtle problems.
A cleaner approach is often analyzing the
function of the old board and replacing it
with a new board and modern parts ( CPLDs ).
MfG JRD
[/quote]
Well, I've analysed that type of old circuits several times. Sometimes it's
easy most times it's not. Can't say much more without knowing the actual
board.
petrus bitbyter |
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| Michael A. Terrell... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:56 pm |
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petrus bitbyter wrote:
[quote]
"jodleren" <sonnich at (no spam) hot.ee> schreef in bericht
news:723ada54-20f2-4acd-bc85-0b1892974a04 at (no spam) p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Hello
I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?
And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?
I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists
Any help apriciated.
WBR
Sonnich
FAIK the 82S123 and is predecessor the 82S23 are 32 bytes Schottky TTL PROMs
first introduced by Signetics. At the time they were fast, reliable and
power hungry. Don't know whether modern programmers can read/write them but
as they are very small PROMs, you can easily read them "by hand" on a simple
breadboard.
Compatible chips were produced by Texas and AMD amongst others. That
compatibilty did *not* cover the programming specifications. So if you want
to program that chips yourself you'll have to make absolutely sure your
programmer can handle the type at hand.
Though the 82S123 may not be available anymore, I saw some compatibles
offered lately. Priced $5.-
petrus bitbyter
[/quote]
A simple circuit can be built to read the data by setting the address
lines and reading the outputs to create a chart by hand. Start at 00000
and record the data, then increment the address by 1 & repeat until all
the data is recovered.
Some of the very early Signetics data books had a sample programmer
circuit, but recommended buying a commercial programmer. BTW, some old
burglar alarm systems used these chips to store phone numbers, and had
external programmers.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
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| Rafael Deliano... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:38 am |
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