WinQCad vs. EagleCAD...

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WinQCad vs. EagleCAD...

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Ken Rolf...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:09 am

Guest

I have used EagleCAD for PCB design and find it a bit quirky.

Has anyone out there tried WinQCad? How does it compare in terms of
ease-of-use and capability?

I also have access to Portel and OrCad at work. In a nutshell, for
what kind of jobs would it be worth the additional time required to
master either of these more complex applications.

Ken Rolff

JeffM...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:50 am

Guest

Ken Rolf wrote:
[quote]I have used EagleCAD for PCB design
[/quote]
There is no product called EagleCAD.
The product called Cadsoft EAGLE is infected with DRM.
If you give it the opportunity,
it will lock you out of your work product.
http://tinyurl.com/TheEAGLE-Virus

Joerg...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:06 am

Guest

Ken Rolf wrote:
[quote]I have used EagleCAD for PCB design and find it a bit quirky.

Has anyone out there tried WinQCad? How does it compare in terms of
ease-of-use and capability?

[/quote]
I use Eagle and I am quite happy with it except for one major
shortcoming explained below. A client uses WinQCad and their engineer is
happy as well.

[quote]I also have access to Portel and OrCad at work. In a nutshell, for
what kind of jobs would it be worth the additional time required to
master either of these more complex applications.

[/quote]
Eagle has IMHO one major flaw: No hierarchy structure is available for
schematics. That makes designs with more than just a few pages almost
unmanageable for anyone but the original designer. Even the original
designer might get lost in such a flat sheet structure when re-visiting
the schematic a few years down the road.

OrCad does offer hierarchy and, AFAIK, so does WinQCad. If Cadsoft
doesn't fix this soon I'll probably switch away from them.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

JeffM...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm

Guest

[quote]JeffM wrote:
The product called Cadsoft EAGLE is infected with DRM.
If you give it the opportunity,
it will lock you out of your work product.
http://tinyurl.com/TheEAGLE-Virus

Baron wrote:
Total bull !

Your statement shows you to be a fool of few words[/quote]
and of fewer actual ideas.
I suggest a reading comprehension course.

Markus described the whole sad tale.
Though he was a paid-up user,
Cadsoft treated him like something to be scraped off their shoe.

[quote]Spoken like a plagiarist.

I suggest you learn what a word means before you use it.[/quote]
http://google.com/search?q=define:plagiarist

JeffM...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:48 pm

Guest

Joerg wrote:
[quote]In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.
[/quote]
That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.

Joerg...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:54 pm

Guest

JeffM wrote:
[quote]Ken Rolf wrote:
I have used EagleCAD for PCB design

There is no product called EagleCAD.
The product called Cadsoft EAGLE is infected with DRM.
If you give it the opportunity,
it will lock you out of your work product.
http://tinyurl.com/TheEAGLE-Virus
[/quote]

If some of the participants worked with cracked copies. Otherwise it
does not.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Baron...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:13 pm

Guest

JeffM...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:21 pm

Guest

[quote]Joerg wrote:
As I said in the part you snipped
he has used clandestinely generated work.

Well, *you* use library parts generated by others.[/quote]
What I see is you looking down your nose at those who do likewise.

[quote]Probably a perfectly honest mistake
but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be blamed for that.

Markus was a paid-up customer of Cadsoft.[/quote]
It would have been trivial for them to get him out of his bind.
As always, it's the LEGIT users who get screwed by DRM.
That Cadsoft doesn't recognize this about DRM
makes them yet another for the DO NOT PURCHASE list.

Screwing your customers is a STUPID business model.
I don't know what the solution to piracy is
but I do know that DRM AIN'T IT.

[quote]The very same thing would happen
if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU.
When the smog check guys find out

He didn't go to the smog check guys.[/quote]
He went to the factory guys WHO HE HAD PAID.
NO ONE TOLD HIM ABOUT THIS SHIT AHEAD OF TIME.

[quote]they will take away your rights to drive that car.

If **the Ford factory guys** came in the middle of the night[/quote]
and crippled my car because I had tinkered with it,
I'd be plenty pissed.
If they did that after I had let a trusted mechanic work on it
and he had been denied the don't-ever-do list by the factory
my level of anger would be off the chart.

Jim Thompson wrote:
[quote]True hackers know how to switch back to "factory" settings
during inspection ;-)

Exactly. DRM doesn't affect *real* pirates.[/quote]
Only LEGIT customers get screwed by DRM.
Clueless companies don't deserve to have any more customers
and only clueless companies use this stupid fad in their products.
Frankly, dongles are more honest.

Joerg...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:43 pm

Guest

JeffM wrote:
[quote]JeffM wrote:
The product called Cadsoft EAGLE is infected with DRM.
If you give it the opportunity,
it will lock you out of your work product.
http://tinyurl.com/TheEAGLE-Virus
Baron wrote:
Total bull !

Your statement shows you to be a fool of few words
and of fewer actual ideas.
I suggest a reading comprehension course.

Markus described the whole sad tale.
[/quote]

Quote "... just because I once copied a voltage regulator (I think it
was) out of a design which aparently was made by some third party with a
cracked version."

A few sentences later, quote "This evil schema part creaped into quite
some of my designs with which the only option I have now is to recapture
their schemas from scratch!"

My impression is that he's more of a commercial user, corroborated by
the fact that he uses a licensed version like I do. This begs the
question where this "innocent piece of design" came from. Copied off the
web is something I don't believe he could have done. That would raise
some flags WRT to copyrights. One cannot simply copy a chunk out of
someone else's schematic and use it, unless it's hobby maybe. I never do
that because that would be breaking the law. So I really don't believe
he did that either, he comes across as an honest guy.

If he got it from someone for money then the seller broke the law. In
that case it's similar to receiving a fake $50 bill. The bank or sheriff
will confiscate that bill and you do not get compensated for your loss.

In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know Cadsoft trusts
their users. You are given a license code and they trust that you won't
leak that to others. So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy onto your laptop for
road use, at least that's what my license says. I find that a very fair
policy. I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Joerg...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:55 pm

Guest

JeffM wrote:
[quote]Joerg wrote:
In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.

That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.
[/quote]

As I said in the part you snipped he has used clandestinely generated
work. Probably a perfectly honest mistake but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be
blamed for that.

The very same thing would happen if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU. When the smog check guys
find out they will take away your rights to drive that car.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jim Thompson...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:59 pm

Guest

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:55:33 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid>
wrote:

[quote]JeffM wrote:
Joerg wrote:
In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.

That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.

As I said in the part you snipped he has used clandestinely generated
work. Probably a perfectly honest mistake but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be
blamed for that.

The very same thing would happen if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU. When the smog check guys
find out they will take away your rights to drive that car.
[/quote]
True hackers know how to switch back to "factory" settings during
inspection ;-)

It's particularly easy to pass smog tests now that the bureaucrats
simply plug into an ECU port... dummies Wink

Joerg...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:16 pm

Guest

Jim Thompson wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:55:33 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:

JeffM wrote:
Joerg wrote:
In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.
That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.

As I said in the part you snipped he has used clandestinely generated
work. Probably a perfectly honest mistake but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be
blamed for that.

The very same thing would happen if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU. When the smog check guys
find out they will take away your rights to drive that car.

True hackers know how to switch back to "factory" settings during
inspection ;-)

[/quote]
Yeah, but the not so honest guys make an engine "run good", take your
check, high-tail it and then the NOX is way over the limit or something.
Which you won't find out until a year later when smog is due, and then
the guy is long gone.

[quote]It's particularly easy to pass smog tests now that the bureaucrats
simply plug into an ECU port... dummies ;-)

[/quote]
Out here they still hang a probe into the tail pipe.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jim Thompson...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:30 pm

Guest

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:16:34 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid>
wrote:

[quote]Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:55:33 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:

JeffM wrote:
Joerg wrote:
In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.
That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.

As I said in the part you snipped he has used clandestinely generated
work. Probably a perfectly honest mistake but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be
blamed for that.

The very same thing would happen if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU. When the smog check guys
find out they will take away your rights to drive that car.

True hackers know how to switch back to "factory" settings during
inspection ;-)

Yeah, but the not so honest guys make an engine "run good", take your
check, high-tail it and then the NOX is way over the limit or something.
Which you won't find out until a year later when smog is due, and then
the guy is long gone.

It's particularly easy to pass smog tests now that the bureaucrats
simply plug into an ECU port... dummies ;-)

Out here they still hang a probe into the tail pipe.
[/quote]
Arizona only does that with really old stuff, like carbureted w/o ECU,
and heavy trucks.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Obama says, "I AM NOT a cry baby, Fox REALLY IS out to get me!"

Joerg...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:37 pm

Guest

Jim Thompson wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:16:34 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:55:33 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:

JeffM wrote:
Joerg wrote:
In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.
That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.
As I said in the part you snipped he has used clandestinely generated
work. Probably a perfectly honest mistake but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be
blamed for that.

The very same thing would happen if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU. When the smog check guys
find out they will take away your rights to drive that car.
True hackers know how to switch back to "factory" settings during
inspection ;-)

Yeah, but the not so honest guys make an engine "run good", take your
check, high-tail it and then the NOX is way over the limit or something.
Which you won't find out until a year later when smog is due, and then
the guy is long gone.

It's particularly easy to pass smog tests now that the bureaucrats
simply plug into an ECU port... dummies ;-)

Out here they still hang a probe into the tail pipe.

Arizona only does that with really old stuff, like carbureted w/o ECU,
and heavy trucks.

[/quote]
So how do they think they can avoid fraud? Or to say it more bluntly,
were they even thinking?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jim Thompson...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:54 pm

Guest

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:37:28 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid>
wrote:

[quote]Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:16:34 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:55:33 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:

JeffM wrote:
Joerg wrote:
In contrast to just about any other CAD company I know
Cadsoft trusts their users. You are given a license code
and they trust that you won't leak that to others.
So no dongles, MAC-locks and other such nonsense.
On top of that they allow you to spool another copy
onto your laptop for road use,
at least that's what my license says.
I find that a very fair policy.
I challenge you to name any competitor that's this generous.
That's nice as far as it goes--right up to the DRM.
Cadsoft's style of distrust simply takes another form.
It's still distrust.
Their treatment of Markus speaks volumes.
As I said in the part you snipped he has used clandestinely generated
work. Probably a perfectly honest mistake but IMHO Cadsoft cannot be
blamed for that.

The very same thing would happen if you unknowingly bought a used car
where some hacker had tampered with the ECU. When the smog check guys
find out they will take away your rights to drive that car.
True hackers know how to switch back to "factory" settings during
inspection ;-)

Yeah, but the not so honest guys make an engine "run good", take your
check, high-tail it and then the NOX is way over the limit or something.
Which you won't find out until a year later when smog is due, and then
the guy is long gone.

It's particularly easy to pass smog tests now that the bureaucrats
simply plug into an ECU port... dummies ;-)

Out here they still hang a probe into the tail pipe.

Arizona only does that with really old stuff, like carbureted w/o ECU,
and heavy trucks.

So how do they think they can avoid fraud? Or to say it more bluntly,
were they even thinking?
[/quote]
Joerg, You fret too much about the wrong things. Move to AZ or NV and
enjoy the good life, while you have a chance.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Obama says, "I AM NOT a cry baby, Fox REALLY IS out to get me!"

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