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| Science Forum Index » Physics - Relativity Forum » When things fall their time slows down... |
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| Nick |
 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:51 pm |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:25 am |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
[/quote]
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:00 am |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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On Nov 4, 10:52 am, Aleph <Usenet.... at (no spam) gishpuppy.com> wrote:
[quote]On Wednesday 04 November 2009 18:25, in <28801972-647f-4250-9718-
f298e35c5... at (no spam) z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, BURT sat down and wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
I see you have had to resort to talking to yourself.
Obviously you are the *only* person in the world who is impressed by your
attempts at deep "meaningful" drivel.
Its almost a pity.
--
Aleph
This message was posted to usenet so please reply that way. Emails to
this account are very likely to be ignored.
[/quote]
Motion from fall slows time for energy as it enters stronger gravity
strength exactly the same as it would in high speed motion but it time
is slowing from gravity time not motion time.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| Aleph... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:52 pm |
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Guest
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On Wednesday 04 November 2009 18:25, in <28801972-647f-4250-9718-
f298e35c56b9 at (no spam) z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, BURT sat down and wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
[/quote]
I see you have had to resort to talking to yourself.
Obviously you are the *only* person in the world who is impressed by your
attempts at deep "meaningful" drivel.
Its almost a pity.
--
Aleph
This message was posted to usenet so please reply that way. Emails to
this account are very likely to be ignored. |
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| xxein... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:14 pm |
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Guest
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On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
[/quote]
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
On a 'lone' Earth, parsecs away from any other gravity source, we say
that we will measure the escape velocity to be (nominally) 11185m/s.
But that measure is a separation velocity. Sqrt(2*M*c^2/r) with M
being a mass expressed as meters of lightspeed. (Or sqrt(2*G*m/r) if
you like mass expressed as kg.)
It is not coincidental that a clock on the Earth's surface has a
slower timerate that exactly matches that of a clock traveling in
space at the velocity of |escape velocity| wrt to Earth's surface r.
This is best explained in a backwards sort of way. A clock on the
Earth's surface already 'has' the speed of the escape velocity. If
you give it a separation velocity of sqrt(2*M*c^2/r), it will add that
velocity, again, for figuring out a timerate that corresponds to a
speed of 2*sqrt(2*M*c^2/r). This is the true separation velocity in
space.
How do I come to such a conclusion? Fairly simply. Position a marble
2 psecs from Earth. Let gravity do it's thing. If Earth did not have
an atmosphere, it would hit the surface at 11185 m/s. What velocity
did the marble have wrt the space it was in just before it hit? 0 m/
s. Now that something prevented it from continuing, what velocity
does it have? 11185 m/s. It's clockrate will reflect that. Give it
the escape velocity to launch it back and you get 2*11185 m/s.
2*escape velocity.
A clock on the Earth's surface is prevented from moving faster than
11185 m/s because that is how fast its space is going and it is not
allowed to follow that space. It ends up with a constant velocity in
that space that corresponds to the velocity of the space at the
surface.
Your 'big' question will be "how do I know that space moves wrt a
gravity", right? Does space contain energy? Does a gravitational
object like the Earth need energy to maintain a structure of mass or
does it's own 'perpetual energy' keep things in place? If that were
so, there would be no need for it to exibit a gravity then, right?
This is the big yin yang of this universe. Energy wants to expand
forever but some matter/mass structures form out of an incomplete
homogeniety. They sort of 'live' and extract energy from the energy
of space to do so. Otherwise, everything would fly apart.
Empty space is a void. It is the energy that permeates it that gives
it a character. Don't ask me where it came from originally just grab
the white and black wires to feel it.
Don't think this is the only universe either. We just can't 'see'
that far for lightspeed (if that is what other universes contain
also). Any exploding Black Hole might just start a universe that is
observed from within no differently than we see ours. This is a self-
simularity that can be mathed with Mandelbrot and Julian sets. We
just don't know. Our physics has a rather feeble sense of logical
cause working for it. It might be fine for our immediate purposes,
but not fine for understanding anything of the physic beyond our
selfish purposes. Just like a political party, a church or a culture.
Expand your limited horizon. Your 2nd grade quips are fine for 2nd
graders. The apple falls. It was not thrown down. Is there anything
else we can only get from your 2nd grade understanding ??? |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:25 pm |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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On Nov 4, 6:14 pm, xxein <xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
Escape velocity is caused by gravity taking away motion as energy[/quote]
leaves it. Therefore because light is constant it is not subject to
slowdown. Light has no escape velocity.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:04 pm |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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On Nov 4, 7:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 6:14 pm, xxein <xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
Escape velocity is caused by gravity taking away motion as energy
leaves it. Therefore because light is constant it is not subject to
slowdown. Light has no escape velocity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
Aether flowing over falling energy slows down.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| xxein... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:23 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 4, 10:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 6:14 pm,xxein<xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
Escape velocity is caused by gravity taking away motion as energy
leaves it. Therefore because light is constant it is not subject to
slowdown. Light has no escape velocity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
xxein: Wanna bet? |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:33 pm |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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On Nov 6, 1:23 pm, xxein <xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 10:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 4, 6:14 pm,xxein<xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
Escape velocity is caused by gravity taking away motion as energy
leaves it. Therefore because light is constant it is not subject to
slowdown. Light has no escape velocity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
xxein: Wanna bet?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
I dare your dare. Show me where I am wrong.
Light can't be slowed down. Its always C in gravity.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| xxein... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:01 pm |
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Guest
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On Nov 6, 5:33 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 1:23 pm,xxein<xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 4, 6:14 pm,xxein<xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
Escape velocity is caused by gravity taking away motion as energy
leaves it. Therefore because light is constant it is not subject to
slowdown. Light has no escape velocity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
xxein: Wanna bet?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I dare your dare. Show me where I am wrong.
Light can't be slowed down. Its always C in gravity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
xxein: Then light cannot bend in gravity because the velocity vectors
will not add up. |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:58 pm |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3387
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On Nov 6, 4:01 pm, xxein <xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 5:33 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 6, 1:23 pm,xxein<xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 4, 6:14 pm,xxein<xx... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
On Nov 4, 1:25 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:51 pm, BURT <macromi... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
It falls to zero at the boundary of a black hole. When time stops so
does proper time. Proper time is the appearence of your own time to
yourself. But it can't appear the same if time stops at a black hole.
This could be called flow of aether slow or slow motion.
Mitch Raemsch
When falling straight toward center gravity time slows down because of
it. The other motion time from speed remains the same.
Mitch Raemsch
xxein: Do you know what escape velocity is? Do you know what it
isn't?
Escape velocity is caused by gravity taking away motion as energy
leaves it. Therefore because light is constant it is not subject to
slowdown. Light has no escape velocity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
xxein: Wanna bet?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I dare your dare. Show me where I am wrong.
Light can't be slowed down. Its always C in gravity.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
xxein: Then light cannot bend in gravity because the velocity vectors
will not add up.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
It was determined in 1919. That is Einstein GR is considered validated
from the very beginning. Now it is known as Shapiro. Light has a
parabolic flyby past the sun. The closer to the sun the greater the
increase in parabolic curvature of light.
Mitch Raemsch |
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The time now is Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:59 am
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