 |
|
| Science Forum Index » Electronics - Design Forum » Which PCB-mounted SMPS brands are good?... |
|
Page 2 of 3 Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next |
|
| Author |
Message |
| Joerg... |
 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
langwadt at (no spam) fonz.dk wrote:
[quote]On 5 Nov., 01:23, Joerg <inva... at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range.
15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but
this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency
cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think
farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power
generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load
transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual,
cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in
hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some
bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We
can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and
only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride.
Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table
--
RS has traco power TMP 15112 (12V,15W) for ~30€ in ones
pins are not quite in the corners for 15W, 30 watt is
it has threaded holes for two screws in the bottom
[/quote]
Thanks, Lasse, looks like a good one and John's supplier PowerGate has them:
http://www.powergatellc.com/pdfs/TMP.pdf
If they sell those for around $20 in hundreds that would be nice but
could be a stretch. In case anyone else needs this stuff here is the
spec sheet with the mechanical details:
http://www.tracopower.com/products/tmp.pdf
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Joe Chisolm... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:56 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:58:37 -0800, Joerg wrote:
[quote]John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC
wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my
own switchers but this time it's too small a production volume
to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments.
Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old
emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and
so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned
on and off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec
stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS
will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although
I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their
lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type
because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip
right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they
always do that ... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I
don't know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot
of board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar
Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?
qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with
input EMI filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do
not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal.
Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on
four puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain
or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose.
When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and
become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the
transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started
using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams
up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee
bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well,
flex a bit versus each other.
Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto
concrete :-)
However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large
gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it
would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much
compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't
protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy
pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce
the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the
SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
[/quote]
See if any of these 3M VHB tapes might do.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/VHB/Tapes/
--
Joe Chisolm
Marble Falls, Tx. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Joerg... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:28 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Joe Chisolm wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:58:37 -0800, Joerg wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC
wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my
own switchers but this time it's too small a production volume
to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments.
Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old
emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and
so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned
on and off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec
stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS
will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although
I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their
lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type
because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip
right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they
always do that ... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I
don't know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot
of board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar
Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?
qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with
input EMI filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do
not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal.
Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on
four puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain
or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose.
When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and
become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the
transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started
using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams
up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee
bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well,
flex a bit versus each other.
Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto
concrete :-)
However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large
gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it
would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much
compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't
protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy
pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce
the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the
SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
See if any of these 3M VHB tapes might do.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/VHB/Tapes/
[/quote]
Thanks, Joe. Seems that they are a bit too thin but it's hard to get to
tech data there. A classic example for the topic "How not to design a
web site" :-)
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Nico Coesel... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:05 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
[quote]Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range.
15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but
this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency
cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think
farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power
generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load
transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual,
cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in
hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
[/quote]
Back in the old days I used Melcher (now Powerone) a lot.
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
"If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!"
-------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Joerg... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:42 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Nico Coesel wrote:
[quote]Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range.
15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but
this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency
cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think
farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power
generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load
transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual,
cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in
hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Back in the old days I used Melcher (now Powerone) a lot.
[/quote]
I still do (their linear supplies). But AFAICT they don't have much
AC/DC in terms of board mount, only chassis mount.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Phil Hobbs... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:35 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Joerg wrote:
[quote]John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC
wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled
my own switchers but this time it's too small a production
volume to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty"
environments. Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms,
raggedy old emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc
welder, and so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors
being turned on and off right there. As usual, cost is an
issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in
hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not
right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although
I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their
lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type
because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip
right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they
always do that ... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I
don't know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of
board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably
similar Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with
input EMI
filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do
not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal.
Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on
four puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing
loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break
loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried
tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke
loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with
water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a
wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with,
well, flex a bit versus each other.
Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto
concrete :-)
However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large
gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it
would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much
compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't
protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy
pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce
the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the
SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
[/quote]
Gorilla glue sounds like good medicine then. Maybe apply a bit of
preload so that the glue is in tension.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Joerg... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:48 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Phil Hobbs wrote:
[quote]Joerg wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Herman wrote:
[/quote]
[...]
[quote]I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing
loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break
loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried
tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke
loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates
with water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a
wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with,
well, flex a bit versus each other.
Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto
concrete :-)
However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a
large gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So
it would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much
compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't
protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy
pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce
the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from
the SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the
warranty.
Gorilla glue sounds like good medicine then. Maybe apply a bit of
preload so that the glue is in tension.
[/quote]
Preload is going to be a problem with these supplies because the pins
are tapered sharply. So they come to rest at a certain height above
board. The only way to apply preload would be to flex the whole thing
which is a bit scary.
But Gorilla glue does sound like good medicine. Probably better than the
Chinese tar blob stuff.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| mook johnson... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:25 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
<langwadt at (no spam) fonz.dk> wrote in message
news:7cc0e32d-986a-4215-ac7a-f0b8e8d2af7c at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On 5 Nov., 01:23, Joerg <inva... at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote:
[quote]Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range.
15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but
this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency
cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think
farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power
generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load
transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual,
cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in
hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some
bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We
can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and
only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride.
Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table
--
RS has traco power TMP 15112 (12V,15W) for ~30€ in ones
pins are not quite in the corners for 15W, 30 watt is
it has threaded holes for two screws in the bottom
-Lasse
[/quote]
I'll second Traco. We use then in portable test boxs all the time and they
are bricks. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Herman... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:16 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7lgas7F3dnl8bU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote]Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide
range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own
switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go
through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments.
Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old
emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so
on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned on and
off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is
out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably
be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I
had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab
bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type because
it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off
during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that
... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't
know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of
board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar
Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input
EMI
filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not
look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can
spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four
puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose.
When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become
a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the
transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started
using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up.
362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee bit
of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex a bit
versus each other.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
[/quote]
That is the stuff.
After the boards are cleaned and tested, I use a small brush and "paint"
water around the perimeter of the transformer. Actually it will cure with
the moisture in the air but will take much longer to cure. With the tip of
the glue bottle with the smallest hole that will allow the glue to flow I
place a bead of glue around the edge of the transformer. The glue flows
under the transformer and after 5 to 10 minutes begins to foam. In an hour
or so it is done. I never tried for flexibility. The cured glue can be cut
with an exacto knife. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Joerg... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:37 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Herman wrote:
[quote]"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7lgas7F3dnl8bU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide
range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own
switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go
through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments.
Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old
emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so
on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned on and
off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is
out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably
be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I
had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab
bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type because
it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off
during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that
... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't
know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of
board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar
Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input
EMI
filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not
look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can
spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four
puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose.
When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become
a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the
transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started
using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up.
362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee bit
of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex a bit
versus each other.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
That is the stuff.
After the boards are cleaned and tested, I use a small brush and "paint"
water around the perimeter of the transformer. Actually it will cure with
the moisture in the air but will take much longer to cure. With the tip of
the glue bottle with the smallest hole that will allow the glue to flow I
place a bead of glue around the edge of the transformer. The glue flows
under the transformer and after 5 to 10 minutes begins to foam. In an hour
or so it is done. I never tried for flexibility. The cured glue can be cut
with an exacto knife.
[/quote]
If it doesn't crumble under an Exacto knife it might have some
flexibility. How does it feel when you press the Exacto knife onto it?
Like porcelain, wood, or RTV?
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Phil Hobbs... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:35 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Joerg wrote:
[quote]Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7lgas7F3dnl8bU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC
wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled
my own switchers but this time it's too small a production
volume to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty"
environments. Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms,
raggedy old emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc
welder, and so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors
being turned on and off right there. As usual, cost is an
issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in
hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not
right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although
I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their
lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type
because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip
right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they
always do that ... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I
don't know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of
board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably
similar Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with
input EMI
filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do
not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal.
Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on
four puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose.
When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and
become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping
the transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I
started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and
foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a
wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with,
well, flex a bit versus each other.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
That is the stuff.
After the boards are cleaned and tested, I use a small brush and
"paint" water around the perimeter of the transformer. Actually it
will cure with the moisture in the air but will take much longer to
cure. With the tip of the glue bottle with the smallest hole that
will allow the glue to flow I place a bead of glue around the edge of
the transformer. The glue flows under the transformer and after 5 to
10 minutes begins to foam. In an hour or so it is done. I never
tried for flexibility. The cured glue can be cut with an exacto knife.
If it doesn't crumble under an Exacto knife it might have some
flexibility. How does it feel when you press the Exacto knife onto it?
Like porcelain, wood, or RTV?
It's pretty tough stuff--the consistency is closest to green hardwood.[/quote]
It's definitely harder than the stuff they use to glue trunk panels on
cars, but not an order of magnitude harder.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Joerg... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:41 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Phil Hobbs wrote:
[quote]Joerg wrote:
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7lgas7F3dnl8bU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Herman wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7leusoFmufisU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg
invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Gents,
Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC
wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled
my own switchers but this time it's too small a production
volume to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty"
environments. Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms,
raggedy old emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old
arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load transients from
motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, cost
is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below
$20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day
but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Here is an example:
http://us.tdk-lambda.com/lp/ftp/Specs/kps.pdf
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT,
although I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind
with their lab bench supplies. We can't really use this
particular type because it's not corner-pinned and only four
pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride.
Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I
don't know
if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a
lot of
board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is
footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably
similar Cincon:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/NFM-15-12/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKHyR6%252bRRfgR3q4687Dpjf4lI%3d
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with
input EMI
filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more
expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell
NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do
not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal.
Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath.
RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on
four puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing
loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break
loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried
tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke
loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates
with water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a
wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with,
well, flex a bit versus each other.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
That is the stuff.
After the boards are cleaned and tested, I use a small brush and
"paint" water around the perimeter of the transformer. Actually it
will cure with the moisture in the air but will take much longer to
cure. With the tip of the glue bottle with the smallest hole that
will allow the glue to flow I place a bead of glue around the edge of
the transformer. The glue flows under the transformer and after 5 to
10 minutes begins to foam. In an hour or so it is done. I never
tried for flexibility. The cured glue can be cut with an exacto knife.
If it doesn't crumble under an Exacto knife it might have some
flexibility. How does it feel when you press the Exacto knife onto it?
Like porcelain, wood, or RTV?
It's pretty tough stuff--the consistency is closest to green hardwood.
[/quote]
That might be just right. Too soft wouldn't work either because it needs
to protect the comparatively tiny solder joints from becoming mushed. Of
course the Traco is best with it's two 3.5mm screw connections in
addition to soldering. But quite expensive.
[quote]It's definitely harder than the stuff they use to glue trunk panels on
cars, but not an order of magnitude harder.
[/quote]
I don't know glued trunk panels since mine (so far) were screwed or
riveted. But that stuff is exposed to vibration so it must be able to
hang on.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael A. Terrell... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:43 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
mook johnson wrote:
[quote]
I'll second Traco. We use then in portable test boxs all the time and they
are bricks.
[/quote]
Everywhere I've worked 'brick' meant it was a dead piece of junk.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| krw... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:49 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:43:52 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]
mook johnson wrote:
I'll second Traco. We use then in portable test boxs all the time and they
are bricks.
Everywhere I've worked 'brick' meant it was a dead piece of junk.
[/quote]
IBM service people used to carry a radio dispatch terminal,
affectionately known as "the brick". It was just about the size and
shape of one, too. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| JosephKK... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:56 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:48:46 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid>
wrote:
[quote]Phil Hobbs wrote:
Joerg wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid at (no spam) invalid.invalid
wrote:
Herman wrote:
[...]
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing
loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break
loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried
tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke
loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates
with water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
Is it this one?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a
wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with,
well, flex a bit versus each other.
Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto
concrete :-)
However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a
large gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So
it would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much
compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't
protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy
pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce
the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from
the SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the
warranty.
Gorilla glue sounds like good medicine then. Maybe apply a bit of
preload so that the glue is in tension.
Preload is going to be a problem with these supplies because the pins
are tapered sharply. So they come to rest at a certain height above
board. The only way to apply preload would be to flex the whole thing
which is a bit scary.
But Gorilla glue does sound like good medicine. Probably better than the
Chinese tar blob stuff.
[/quote]
Bigger thru holes so that the PSU sits closer to the board? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:48 pm
|
|