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| Panu... |
 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:00 am |
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On Nov 6, 3:15 am, "2.7182818284590..." <tangent1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Could you please give me some Celtic Loanwords in German?
[/quote]
You were already given one: Reich. But you'll find more in the first
chapter of any respectable book about the history of German. |
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| Ruud Harmsen... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:39 am |
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Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:49:21 +0100: Joachim Pense <snob at (no spam) pense-mainz.eu>:
in sci.lang:
[quote]There is one famous Celtic borrowing in Germanic, which is the name
suffix -rix (King, cf Vercingetorix), which became -rich in Germanic (cf
Heinrich and the word Reich).
[/quote]
And the Dutch name of France: Frankrijk.
So France is a now a Romance-speaking country with a mixed Germanic
and Celtic name!
One more reason for the European parliament and other international
bodies to be in Strassbourg!
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.eu |
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| Christian Weisgerber... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:50 am |
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2.7182818284590... <tangent1.57 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Could you please give me some Celtic Loanwords in German?
[/quote]
The words "reich"/"rich" and "Eisen"/"iron" are generally considered
to be loans from Celtic into Common Germanic. Don Ringe wrote an
in-depth explanation of the underlying reasoning here:
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1012
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy at (no spam) mips.inka.de |
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| noesy_parker... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:57 am |
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Panu <craoibhin66 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in news:22affe7b-febd-4892-896a-
de605488b07f at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
[quote]The "Celtics" are a football team in Glasgow.
[/quote]
No, Celtics are the basketball team. The football team in Glasgow is
Celtic. |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:17 am |
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On Nov 6, 3:26 am, Panu <craoibhi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 9:05 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
On Nov 6, 1:20 am, Panu <craoibhi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 6, 3:21 am, "2.7182818284590..." <tangent1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
For starters, you obviously have no idea of the presence of
Continental Celtic in what is now Czech Republic. The very name
Bohemia refers to the Celtic tribe of Boii.
I'm keenly aware of the Celtics
The CELTS, you mean. The "Celtics" are a football team in Glasgow.
[/quote]
well, in my native country football is what you mean by it, but since
there are a lot of American English Speakers here let's call it soccer
to avoid confusion.
[quote]
or a basketball team in Boston, MA, USA
I see. Are they a historically Irish-immigrant team, like the Glasgow
Celtics?
[/quote]
since Boston is known for its large Irish immigrant community I would
presume so. they are a well known basketball team. |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:33 am |
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On Nov 6, 7:24Â am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 4:57Â am, "noesy_parker" <noesy_par... at (no spam) clara.co.uk> wrote:
Panu <craoibhi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in news:22affe7b-febd-4892-896a-
de605488b... at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
The "Celtics" are a football team in Glasgow.
No, Celtics are the basketball team. The football team in Glasgow is
Celtic. Â
Doews the Glaswegians' name start with /s/ or /k/? (Americans have
trouble learning that the language name has /k/, because the hoopsters
have /s/.)
BTW today is James Naismith's birthday.
[/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.
<<
The Celtic Football Club (pronounced /ˈsɛltɪk/) (LSE: CCP) is a
Scottish football club based in the Parkhead area of Glasgow, which
currently plays in the Scottish Premier League.
[quote]
[/quote]
in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic
many of the sports clubs are listed under /ˈsɛltɪk/ (incl. two in N.
Ireland)
Pronounced /ˈsɛltɪk/
Celtic F.C. - Scottish football club
Boston Celtics - American professional basketball team
Celtic - the Secret Service codename for US vice president, Joe Biden
Celt (tool) - a type of stone tool
Belfast Celtic - former Irish/Northern Irish football club
Bloemfontein Celtic - South African football club
Dewsbury Celtic - English rugby League club
Donegal Celtic - Northern Irish football team
Farsley Celtic A.F.C. - English football club
Lurgan Celtic Football Club - Northern Irish football club
Oban Celtic - Scottish shinty club
Stalybridge Celtic F.C. - English football club
under /ˈkɛltɪk/ the only sports clubs are:
Crusaders Rugby League, a Welsh rugby league club previously known as
"Celtic Crusaders".
Celtic League (rugby union) |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:35 am |
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On Nov 6, 4:57 am, "noesy_parker" <noesy_par... at (no spam) clara.co.uk> wrote:
[quote]Panu <craoibhi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in news:22affe7b-febd-4892-896a-
de605488b... at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
The "Celtics" are a football team in Glasgow.
No, Celtics are the basketball team. The football team in Glasgow is
Celtic.
[/quote]
you are right (from Wikipedia) |
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| Harlan Messinger... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:16 am |
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Panu wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 3:21 am, "2.7182818284590..." <tangent1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
For starters, you obviously have no idea of the presence of
Continental Celtic in what is now Czech Republic. The very name
Bohemia refers to the Celtic tribe of Boii.
I'm keenly aware of the Celtics
The CELTS, you mean. The "Celtics" are a football team in Glasgow.
[/quote]
Or a basketball team in Boston. |
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| Christian Weisgerber... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:56 am |
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Trond Engen <trondnet at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[quote]http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kroch/courses/lx310/ringe-handouts-09/celt-loans.pdf
(Anonymous, but found on the professional webpage of professor Anthony
Kroch at University of Pennsylvania)
[/quote]
Presumably the author is Kroch's colleague Don Ringe.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy at (no spam) mips.inka.de |
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| Peter T. Daniels... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:17 am |
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On Nov 6, 1:13 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[quote]2.7182818284590...:
Could you please give me some Celtic Loanwords in German?
The two groups lived side-by-side for a while.
_Annotated list of Celtic loanwords, and possible Celtic loanwords, in
Proto-Germanic_:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kroch/courses/lx310/ringe-handouts-09/celt...
(Anonymous, but found on the professional webpage of professor Anthony
Kroch at University of Pennsylvania)
[/quote]
The ringe- in the url strongly suggests it's by Don Ringe.
[quote]As you'll see, there's doubt about several of the words. The author of
this document seems to be rather careful with attributing them to Celtic.
[/quote]
Is the list dated? Is it from before or after his historical phonology
of Germanic, published quite recently? |
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| Athel Cornish-Bowden... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:30 am |
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On 2009-11-06 13:24:08 +0100, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim at (no spam) verizon.net> said:
[quote]On Nov 6, 4:57 am, "noesy_parker" <noesy_par... at (no spam) clara.co.uk> wrote:
Panu <craoibhi... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in news:22affe7b-febd-4892-896a-
de605488b... at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
The "Celtics" are a football team in Glasgow.
No, Celtics are the basketball team. The football team in Glasgow is
Celtic.
Doews the Glaswegians' name start with /s/ or /k/? (Americans have
trouble learning that the language name has /k/, because the hoopsters
have /s/.)
[/quote]
/s/. I've no idea why, and it's odd, because the word otherwise starts
/k/ in British usage.
--
athel |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:20 pm |
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| Trond Engen... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:13 pm |
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2.7182818284590...:
[quote]Could you please give me some Celtic Loanwords in German?
The two groups lived side-by-side for a while.
[/quote]
_Annotated list of Celtic loanwords, and possible Celtic loanwords, in
Proto-Germanic_:
<http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kroch/courses/lx310/ringe-handouts-09/celt-loans.pdf>
(Anonymous, but found on the professional webpage of professor Anthony
Kroch at University of Pennsylvania)
As you'll see, there's doubt about several of the words. The author of
this document seems to be rather careful with attributing them to Celtic.
--
Trond Engen |
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| DKleinecke... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:47 pm |
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On Nov 5, 9:49 pm, Joachim Pense <s... at (no spam) pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
[quote]DKleinecke (in sci.lang):
On Nov 5, 8:15 am, hazchem <thewhitehor... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:
On 4 Nov, 21:41, "2.7182818284590..." <tangent1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
IMO: Germanic was VERY widespread during the Roman Empire
Slavic language was only introduced to the Balkans around the end of
the Roman Empire (around 500 AD). I'm convinced that prior to the
expansion of Slavic languages, that Germanic languages were spoken in
abundance in Central Europe in areas like Hungary, Poland, Czech
Republic, Western Ukraine, Belarus, etc.
What do you think about this?
The Lombards, who were a German tribe, lived on the Hungarian plain
before they moved into northern Italy. Goths and Vandals occupied
parts of eastern Europe like Poland and Ukraine.
There is a theory that the Belgae tribe were at least in part
Germanic. Apparently they settled parts of Britain. Maybe a Germanic
tongue was spoken in parts of Britain at the time of the Roman
invasion.
The precise relationship between the Germanic tribes and the Celtic
tribes before, say, 200 BC does not seem to ever have been worked out
in any great detail. However it is not a linguistic problem, at least
not so far as Germanic (that part for which there are surviving
records) and insular Celtic are concerned. We have no way to be sure
how much continental Celtic may have borrowed from Germanic. Since the
Celts appear to have been culturally dominant there is likely to have
been very little borrowing into Celtic. Conversely the surviving
Germans were located well behind the front lines during the time of
Celtic domination and may have rejected Celtic borrowing
hypothetically made by tribes closer to the Celts.
But all this is pure speculation. So far as I know there is very
little evidence of post-PIE interaction between the Germans and the
Celts.
There is one famous Celtic borrowing in Germanic, which is the name
suffix -rix (King, cf Vercingetorix), which became -rich in Germanic (cf
Heinrich and the word Reich).
Joachim
[/quote]
If Germanic -rich is really a borrowing from Celtic and not a
continuation of PIE root (I am not up to suggesting one) then it is a
very interesting one. Sort of proves what I said about the Celts being
dominant (here specicially politically). |
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| DKleinecke... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:57 pm |
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On Nov 6, 4:47 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 9:49 pm, Joachim Pense <s... at (no spam) pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
DKleinecke (in sci.lang):
On Nov 5, 8:15 am, hazchem <thewhitehor... at (no spam) googlemail.com> wrote:
On 4 Nov, 21:41, "2.7182818284590..." <tangent1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
IMO: Germanic was VERY widespread during the Roman Empire
Slavic language was only introduced to the Balkans around the end of
the Roman Empire (around 500 AD). I'm convinced that prior to the
expansion of Slavic languages, that Germanic languages were spoken in
abundance in Central Europe in areas like Hungary, Poland, Czech
Republic, Western Ukraine, Belarus, etc.
What do you think about this?
The Lombards, who were a German tribe, lived on the Hungarian plain
before they moved into northern Italy. Goths and Vandals occupied
parts of eastern Europe like Poland and Ukraine.
There is a theory that the Belgae tribe were at least in part
Germanic. Apparently they settled parts of Britain. Maybe a Germanic
tongue was spoken in parts of Britain at the time of the Roman
invasion.
The precise relationship between the Germanic tribes and the Celtic
tribes before, say, 200 BC does not seem to ever have been worked out
in any great detail. However it is not a linguistic problem, at least
not so far as Germanic (that part for which there are surviving
records) and insular Celtic are concerned. We have no way to be sure
how much continental Celtic may have borrowed from Germanic. Since the
Celts appear to have been culturally dominant there is likely to have
been very little borrowing into Celtic. Conversely the surviving
Germans were located well behind the front lines during the time of
Celtic domination and may have rejected Celtic borrowing
hypothetically made by tribes closer to the Celts.
But all this is pure speculation. So far as I know there is very
little evidence of post-PIE interaction between the Germans and the
Celts.
There is one famous Celtic borrowing in Germanic, which is the name
suffix -rix (King, cf Vercingetorix), which became -rich in Germanic (cf
Heinrich and the word Reich).
Joachim
If Germanic -rich is really a borrowing from Celtic and not a
continuation of PIE root (I am not up to suggesting one) then it is a
very interesting one. Sort of proves what I said about the Celts being
dominant (here specicially politically).
[/quote]
I see that there a good list of possible Celtic loan words into
Germanic. Now, conversely, what about Germanic loanwords in Celtic -
in the old days, of course, say before the Christian era began. What
I am trying to measure is the extent and nature of the Celtic
domination over the Germans. It would be very interesting to know what
was going on in central Europe about 1000 BCE or even later. |
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