 |
|
| Science Forum Index » Philosophy Forum » "Just the facts, M'am."... |
|
Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next |
|
| Author |
Message |
| Mark Earnest... |
 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:28 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
That's what Sgt. Joe Friday would say on Dragnet.
So...
Just what is a fact?
Do they even exist?
Evidently not, according to scientists, who say that there are no
absolutes.
Why?
Because unless you are absolutely sure of something, it cannot be a fact.
And that's a fact! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:28 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 12:28 pm, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Just what is a fact?
[/quote]
A fact is what fiction isn't.
[quote]Do they even exist?
[/quote]
How do you suggest that be answered without stating a fact?
[quote]Evidently not, according to scientists, who say that there are no
absolutes.
[/quote]
Therefore that is not an absolute, oh and they are not scientists,
they are just silly Kantians and more than likely they go to church,
even worse they vote.
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Errol... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:09 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 5:28 am, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]That's what Sgt. Joe Friday would say on Dragnet.
So...
Just what is a fact?
Do they even exist?
Evidently not, according to scientists, who say that there are no
absolutes.
Why?
– Friedrich Nietzsche: Human, All-too-Human[/quote]
"There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths."
1) Because there is ambiguity in particle physics. This does not mean
that what we call facts are incorrectly termed as such, it means that
what we perceive as reality has been touched up (like an actor getting
a makeover before appearing before the cameras) by our brains in order
to appear less threatening or ambiguous. Science tends to avoid
absolutism. Even when scientists reasonably believe an explanation, it
is often couched as theory or proofs. However, as we advance in
science, we often find ourselves disproving proofs. Yet a great deal
of proof on a subject makes it more likely, but does not make it
absolute truth
2) Anything that we take to be true is revisable. it was considered a
fact that the sun orbited the Earth until Galileo Galilei presented
his heliocentric view.
3) We can never have a ‘god’s-eye’ view of the universe, whether or
not you believe in god or not, this implies that certain kinds of
information will probably always be unavailable to us, because of
physical restraints within our universe. these restraints could be the
speed of light, the inability to verify truths by travelling through
time, other dimensions, etc
4) All truths are a matter of opinion, even scientific theories until
they are proven, disproven. This is especially true about theories
regarding subjective experience such as quales.
5) All the truths that we know are subjective truths (i.e. mind-
dependent truths), because the mind is our only contact with reality,
we do not know or understand how much it colours reality.
6) There is nothing more to truth than what we are willing to assert
as true
Absolute truths are the crutch of religionists, such as "I believe
that I will live in heaven after I die." and Randians who need it to
prove the Objectivism philososphy, E.G "A is A" and "There are no
contradictions in reality".
Also, the ambiguity of reality is not bound by metaphysical absolute
statements.
A randroid, being, by nature, as predictable as a morning bowel
movement will try tie you up with circular statements such as "there
are no absolutes is by itself an absolute statement and therefore is
self contradicting". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:30 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 4:38 pm, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]And...you don't say what something is by saying what it isn't.
[/quote]
If it is not fact then it is fiction, therefore in context, fact is
not fiction, therefore a fact is what fiction isn't.
[quote]**I never said you could not state a fact.
[/quote]
Oh, is that a fact?
[quote] Go ahead, state one,
if you can.
[/quote]
You are not stupid, unless you want to be of course.
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:40 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 6:09 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths."
[/quote]
Hey dopey, the adjective "eternal" does not change the meaning of
fact.
Oh and hey dopey, the adjective "absolute" does not change the meaning
of truth.
Where did ewe get that crap from?
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Errol... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:58 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 11:40 am, Michael Gordge <mikegor... at (no spam) xtra.co.nz> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 6:09 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
"There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths."
Hey dopey, the adjective "eternal" does not change the meaning of
fact.
Oh and hey dopey, the adjective "absolute" does not change the meaning
of truth.
Where did ewe get that crap from?
MG
[/quote]
It's Nietzsche, you dim twat |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Mark Earnest... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:38 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Michael Gordge" <mikegordge at (no spam) xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:62e37a92-5d16-4c31-a97a-0b98cdb33932 at (no spam) s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 12:28 pm, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Just what is a fact?
[/quote]
A fact is what fiction isn't.
**No, actually, fiction is factual, just in an artful form.
And...you don't say what something is by saying what it isn't.
[quote]Do they even exist?
[/quote]
How do you suggest that be answered without stating a fact?
**I never said you could not state a fact. Go ahead, state one,
if you can. Just realize you have to be totally certain, or it isn't a
fact.
[quote]Evidently not, according to scientists, who say that there are no
absolutes.
[/quote]
Therefore that is not an absolute,
**No, because the premise has not been validated. You did not
even try to.
oh and they are not scientists,
they are just silly Kantians and more than likely they go to church,
even worse they vote.
**I agree with you there. Most professional philosophy and churcheology is
totally screwed up attempts at discerning reality. And the reason they are
screwed up is because they follow the "masters," that is, they kiss ass just
to make themselves look dignified.
**Am I talking your language well enough, now, Michael? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:45 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 7:58 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
"There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths."
Hey dopey, ewe didn't explain how the adjective "eternal" changes the
meaning of truth.
e.g. what is it about today that has changed how fucking stupid you
were yesterday to regurgitate idiotic Kantian garbage?
Are ewe looking for an excuse to deny 9/11?
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:52 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 3, 7:58 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]
It's Nietzsche,...............
[/quote]
Gosh Errol, so how long has it remained a fact - and or the truth -
about that that is what Nietzsche wrote?
What is it about tomorrow that will change what Nietzsche in fact
actually wrote?
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Mark Earnest... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:18 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Errol" <vs.errol at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a0a7a122-bbda-4fcd-a258-8bc932863345 at (no spam) g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 5:28 am, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]That's what Sgt. Joe Friday would say on Dragnet.
So...
Just what is a fact?
Do they even exist?
Evidently not, according to scientists, who say that there are no
absolutes.
Why?
– Friedrich Nietzsche: Human, All-too-Human[/quote]
"There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths."
1) Because there is ambiguity in particle physics. This does not mean
that what we call facts are incorrectly termed as such, it means that
what we perceive as reality has been touched up (like an actor getting
a makeover before appearing before the cameras) by our brains in order
to appear less threatening or ambiguous. Science tends to avoid
absolutism. Even when scientists reasonably believe an explanation, it
is often couched as theory or proofs. However, as we advance in
science, we often find ourselves disproving proofs. Yet a great deal
of proof on a subject makes it more likely, but does not make it
absolute truth
2) Anything that we take to be true is revisable. it was considered a
fact that the sun orbited the Earth until Galileo Galilei presented
his heliocentric view.
3) We can never have a ‘god’s-eye’ view of the universe, whether or
not you believe in god or not, this implies that certain kinds of
information will probably always be unavailable to us, because of
physical restraints within our universe. these restraints could be the
speed of light, the inability to verify truths by travelling through
time, other dimensions, etc
4) All truths are a matter of opinion, even scientific theories until
they are proven, disproven. This is especially true about theories
regarding subjective experience such as quales.
5) All the truths that we know are subjective truths (i.e. mind-
dependent truths), because the mind is our only contact with reality,
we do not know or understand how much it colours reality.
6) There is nothing more to truth than what we are willing to assert
as true
Absolute truths are the crutch of religionists, such as "I believe
that I will live in heaven after I die." and Randians who need it to
prove the Objectivism philososphy, E.G "A is A" and "There are no
contradictions in reality".
Also, the ambiguity of reality is not bound by metaphysical absolute
statements.
A randroid, being, by nature, as predictable as a morning bowel
movement will try tie you up with circular statements such as "there
are no absolutes is by itself an absolute statement and therefore is
self contradicting".
**Facts may indeed remain ambiguous to you, but they are not to me.
The fact is, no one has yet encountered the truth except in a superficial
sort of way.
This means no one has yet encountered facts except in a superficial way.
No one know that he doesn't know, because no one knows what it is to know.
Did you know that all the noble religions of the world are completely
the same?
That is a fact. They are.
Each position merely amplifies the very same and exact light given in a
different way.
Not hard to understand if you can comprehend the phenomenal concept
of perspective. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:19 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 4, 4:07 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Did you actually read what I wrote
[/quote]
I dont usually waste my time reading past a Kantian, therefore faulty,
therefore dopey self contradicting premise, ewe dumb cunt!
[quote]Science tends to avoid absolutism.
[/quote]
Hahhah, thats funny, perhaps ewe can name the scientist who would dunk
his bare head into a bucket of hydrochloric acid acid for a second
time, idiot.
What would it take to convince these, obviously Kantain, scientists,
who ewe rabbit on about, that man can not survive outside of earth's
atmosphere unless he is inside a special space ship or wearing
specially manufactured clothing, known as a space suit?
[quote]A great deal of proof on a subject makes it more likely, but does not
make it absolute truth
[/quote]
Hey dopey, ewe have yet to explain how the adjective "absolute"
changes the meaning of truth.
[quote]What if next week,
[/quote]
Hey dopey, here is a clue for ewe, -- the "future" (e.g. next week) is
by definition a moment that does not exist, and dopey -- read my lips
because this is very important, -- something that does not exist (the
future / next week) can not be used as means or as a requirement to
determine fact from fiction, truth from lies.
Is that clear enough for ewe?
Second clue, - the truth is recogintion of reality, reality is what it
is, A is A and it is current and historic.
OK another clue for ewe, ewe ONLY have the current and the moments
past to work with.
One more clue, there are no contradictions in reality, they exist as
nothing more than faulty identification.
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:20 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 4, 5:33 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Quiet now eh!...........
[/quote]
Strawman, what would a Kantian fuckwit like ewe know or care about
ambiguity?
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:21 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 4, 4:58 pm, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]**No one knows anything...yet.
[/quote]
Oh so you dont know that?
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Errol... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:23 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 4, 11:19 am, Michael Gordge <mikegor... at (no spam) xtra.co.nz> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 4:07 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Did you actually read what I wrote
I dont usually waste my time reading past a Kantian, therefore faulty,
therefore dopey self contradicting premise, ewe dumb cunt!
[/quote]
I am not surprised. Who do you get to read to you, your 4 year old or
6 year old grandchild?
[quote]Science tends to avoid absolutism.
Hahhah, thats funny, perhaps ewe can name the scientist who would dunk
his bare head into a bucket of hydrochloric acid acid for a second
time, idiot.
What would it take to convince these, obviously Kantain, scientists,
who ewe rabbit on about, that man can not survive outside of earth's
atmosphere unless he is inside a special space ship or wearing
specially manufactured clothing, known as a space suit?
[/quote]
You don't seem to be able to distinguish between scientific theories
and reality.
It is the scientific world of ideas and theories that avoids
absolutism, not reality.
The OP wrote
"Evidently not, according to scientists, who say that there are no
absolutes."
I responded with some reasons why scientists might say this.
An observation of reality is that when you step off a high building,
you shortly afterwards hit the ground and die.
A scientific theory about that observation is that gravity causes you
to be attracted to the earths surface.
Do you see the difference you dumb twat |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Michael Gordge... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:08 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 4, 7:23 pm, Errol <vs.er... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]You don't seem to be able to distinguish between scientific theories
and reality.
[/quote]
Hey dopey, when the theories of science are not dealing with reality
then that is called engaging in science fiction, e.g. the leftist's
anti-human scam of man making the globe colder by producing
0.000000000000000001% less of the earth's gas is science fiction.
[quote]It is the scientific world of ideas and theories that avoids
absolutism, not reality.
[/quote]
Ewe didn't name the scientist who would dunk his head into a bucket of
hydrochloric acid for a second time to prove his point that nothing in
or about science and the subject of science, "matter and its nature",
is absolute.
[quote]The OP wrote....
[/quote]
Hahahhaha, and ewe wrote about it because ewe agree with it, ewe
fucking Kantian idiot.
[quote]An observation of reality is that when you step off a high building,
you shortly afterwards hit the ground and die.
[/quote]
So science then checks out that "observation" to validate it, i.e. to
place it into the scientific category of absolutes, non-contradictory
identification of the sensory evidence -- A is A
Now Errol, read my lips, if you jump from the top of a high building
(lets say 20 x 10' floors) on a clear and windless day, with nothing
at all breaking your fall, (totally in the hands of earth's gravity),
and if ewe land on solid dry concrete wearing nothing but your
birthday suit -- you will die.
Errol, it is an absolute that there are some things that the human
body can not will not survive. One day ewe will accept that being
within a mile of an atomic bomb blast is a real bad idea.
Oh and ewe didn't name the scientist, wanting to prove his "non-
absolute dopey Kantian idea", who would venture into what man calls
the "vacuum of outer space" wearing nothing but his birthday suit.
Errol, death is absolute, and yeah yeah I know, notwithstanding that
ewe prefer to sit on the agnostic's fence of evasion and are hoping
like the fucking idiot ewe are, that life after death is not the
oxymoronic diatribe of the sad and lonely and desperate.
Errol, the emperor has no clothes, so get over it.
[quote]A scientific theory about that observation is that gravity causes you
to be attracted to the earths surface.
[/quote]
Hey dopey, the theory matters not a monkey's toss Errol, ewe will die
and death is absolute.
MG |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:42 am
|
|