| Science Forum Index » Electronics - Design Forum » Heat from heatpipes probably damaged a memory chip.... |
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| Skybuck... |
 Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:26 pm |
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| larry moe 'n curly... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Guest
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Skybuck wrote:
[quote]
Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's
Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was
not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat
expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang
CPU Cooler).
I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat
from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu
cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time...  I am not sure if
it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan
at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might
have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!?
But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around
heatpipes is a good thing...
Anyway here are the pictures:
Picture2:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic2HeatpipesAsSuspect.JPG
[/quote]
Doesn't indicate heatpipes at fault; view doesn't show whether or not
heatpipes are touching chips or module circuit boards.
[quote]Picture3:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic3HeatpipesCloseUp.JPG
[/quote]
It looks like they're not touching, but I can't be sure. If they are,
you can protect them by placing cardboard between the pieces. If you
want to be fancy, get fish paper from an electronics supply.
[quote]Picture4:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic4PlentyOfFans.JPG
[/quote]
Too many fans. Silly cooling setup. Memory doesn't mind heat --
notice Micron and Samsung specify 85-95 Celcius max. operating temp.
for their DDR2 chips.
[quote]Picture8:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic8FailedChipWasNew.JPG
[/quote]
Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks
over the chips.
The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away
from the circuit board.
2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short
some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module
circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the
copper and the edges.
But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too
small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered
by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM
chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual
manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
[quote]I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is
closest to the cpu ?!?
[/quote]
Almost always.
[quote]I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot
heatpipes away from the memory chips...
[/quote]
They probably don't matter. |
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| The Central Screwtinizer... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:03 pm |
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:26:07 -0700 (PDT), Skybuck <skybuck2000 at (no spam) hotmail.com>
wrote:
[...] otherwise I will go nuts !
That ship already sailed long ago, son... |
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| SteveH... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:24 am |
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Skybuck wrote:
[quote]Hello,
I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat
[/quote]
All those pictures show is that you live in a dusty environment and either
don't have air filters on your PC, or don't clean it enough.
--
SteveH |
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| Craig Sutton... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:41 am |
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"Skybuck" <skybuck2000 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4db23453-1ee7-4cd9-a745-f31614a4e67b at (no spam) g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
[quote]
For me this is becoming a drag... I have fixed this pc so many times
it's starting to bum-me-out.
Feels like I am fixing a formula 1 car or dragracing car all the
time ! LOL I am kinda fed up with it ! ;)
[/quote]
You still don't get it?
The problem is YOU messing with it you don't have a CLUE! I bought my
similar setup to yours at around the same time and havn't had single
problem.
Same ram,same m.b, same hd's |
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| Archimedes' Lever... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:11 am |
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:01:10 -0700 (PDT), "larry moe 'n curly"
<larrymoencurly at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote:
[quote]
Skybuck wrote:
Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's
Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was
not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat
expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang
CPU Cooler).
I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat
from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu
cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... I am not sure if
it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan
at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might
have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!?
But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around
heatpipes is a good thing...
Anyway here are the pictures:
Picture2:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic2HeatpipesAsSuspect.JPG
Doesn't indicate heatpipes at fault; view doesn't show whether or not
heatpipes are touching chips or module circuit boards.
Picture3:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic3HeatpipesCloseUp.JPG
It looks like they're not touching, but I can't be sure. If they are,
you can protect them by placing cardboard between the pieces. If you
want to be fancy, get fish paper from an electronics supply.
Picture4:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic4PlentyOfFans.JPG
Too many fans. Silly cooling setup. Memory doesn't mind heat --
notice Micron and Samsung specify 85-95 Celcius max. operating temp.
for their DDR2 chips.
Picture8:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic8FailedChipWasNew.JPG
Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks
over the chips.
The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away
from the circuit board.
2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short
some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module
circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the
copper and the edges.
But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too
small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered
by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM
chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual
manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is
closest to the cpu ?!?
Almost always.
I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot
heatpipes away from the memory chips...
They probably don't matter.
[/quote]
From 2k6? The AMD CPUs then were very good at thermal management, and
if he did NOT overclock, the whole damned set-up is HUGE overkill.
The best way to manage your PCs thermals are to MONITOR them, and
observe what temperatures things are being raised to. DUH! |
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| Archimedes' Lever... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:19 am |
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:41:26 +1300, "Craig Sutton"
<xcxcnxxnxxx at (no spam) ihug.co.nz> wrote:
[quote]
"Skybuck" <skybuck2000 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4db23453-1ee7-4cd9-a745-f31614a4e67b at (no spam) g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
For me this is becoming a drag... I have fixed this pc so many times
it's starting to bum-me-out.
Feels like I am fixing a formula 1 car or dragracing car all the
time ! LOL I am kinda fed up with it ! ;)
You still don't get it?
The problem is YOU messing with it you don't have a CLUE! I bought my
similar setup to yours at around the same time and havn't had single
problem.
Same ram,same m.b, same hd's
[/quote]
Like I said, he is so clueless about ESD, that he probably *thinks* his
gear is protected while he futzes around with it.
I have been swapping hard drives, optical drives, sound cards, video
cards, etc. in my PC since I bought it in '04.
I keep the dust off the blades and tines.
I use several SATA drives as backups, and archives, and they get swapped
in and out ALL the time.
Never a problem from XP, through Vista, and now Windows 7.
HE is the problem, and ALL his posts he EVER made about his machines are
the absolute proof. |
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| Skybuck... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:24 pm |
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On Oct 31, 10:24 am, "SteveH" <steve.houghREM... at (no spam) THISblueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
[quote]Skybuckwrote:
Hello,
I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it washeat
All those pictures show is that you live in a dusty environment and either
don't have air filters on your PC, or don't clean it enough.
--
SteveH
[/quote]
Which gives me a new interesting theory:
The Scythe Zipang is a top down cooler... which could mean it blew
dust into the memory chips from above... and somehow that tiny little
bit of dust caused a short circuit in the memory chip ! ;)
Bye,
Skybuck. |
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| Skybuck... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:11 pm |
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Another theory/hypothesis which I am slighty worried about is the
following:
"Water vapor from the dust filters was blown towards the memory chips
and was blown into the memory chips which caused a short circuit".
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... I just made sure
most of the moisture was gone... just little bit of moisture was left.
So I wonder if it's possible for tiny little micro drupplets of water
to float through the air and kill a chip ?!?
To me this seems unlikely but reality is usually more strange than
fantasy ! ;)
One last theory/hypothesis which I already wrote about in the past is:
"pc is not grounded, and me touching pc causes static electricic
feedback into the pc, since motherboard(s) is/are known to have some
leakage, so reversed path seems plausible".
I will probably call an electrician to check out and change the power
sockets with "grounding power sockets"... I am curious if he will
discovery anything about the power sockets... like maybe no grounding
wire present :)
Bye,
Skybuck. |
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| Toolpackinmama... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:17 am |
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Guest
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Skybuck wrote:
[quote]Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
[/quote]
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP? |
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| larry moe 'n curly... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:11 pm |
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Guest
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Skybuck wrote:
[quote]The Scythe Zipang is a top down cooler... which could mean it blew
dust into the memory chips from above... and somehow that tiny little
bit of dust caused a short circuit in the memory chip !
[/quote]
Not unless the computer was next to a busy metal lathe or milling
machine. |
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| Skybuck Flying... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:57 pm |
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"Toolpackinmama" <philnblanc at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hcjjn1$j0e$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
[quote]Skybuck wrote:
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
[/quote]
Real, can't find the video of the kid...
But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their dust
filters with water ! ;)
Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! :)
Bye,
Skybuck. |
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| Norman Peelman... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:59 pm |
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Skybuck Flying wrote:
[quote]"Toolpackinmama" <philnblanc at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hcjjn1$j0e$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Skybuck wrote:
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
Real, can't find the video of the kid...
But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their dust
filters with water ! ;)
Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
[/quote]
Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
--
Norman
Registered Linux user #461062 |
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| Skybuck Flying... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:06 am |
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"Norman Peelman" <npeelman at (no spam) cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4aee4a70$0$5118$9a6e19ea at (no spam) unlimited.newshosting.com...
[quote]Skybuck Flying wrote:
"Toolpackinmama" <philnblanc at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hcjjn1$j0e$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Skybuck wrote:
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
Real, can't find the video of the kid...
But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their
dust filters with water ! ;)
Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
[/quote]
But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be
unneccessary ?
(Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! )
The real question is:
What happens if it's slightly wet/moisturish ;)
Anybody know ?  =D
Bye,
Skybuck =D |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:31 am |
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Guest
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On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:17:22 -0500, Toolpackinmama
<philnblanc at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]Skybuck wrote:
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
[/quote]
---
He's just another troll.
JF |
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