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| Harry Hope... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:35 am |
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Guest
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In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry |
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| Monkey Clumps... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:35 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 31, 12:13 pm, JohnM <john_howard_mor... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 10:43 am, Monkey Clumps <spacebrai... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:35 am, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves..
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
If it warms enough maybe we will get to see why Greenland was named
Greenland.
Too late by years, Mr Clumps.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1001/p01s02-wogn.html?page=1
[/quote]
Wow, they can grow potatoes now. Will the horrors of global warming
ever cease? Let's spend trillions of dollars to stop this horrible
disaster. |
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| Monkey Clumps... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:35 am |
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Guest
|
On Oct 31, 10:35 am, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[quote]In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
[/quote]
If it warms enough maybe we will get to see why Greenland was named
Greenland. |
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| matt_sykes... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:35 am |
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Guest
|
On 31 Oct, 16:35, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[quote]In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
[/quote]
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum. |
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| JohnM... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:35 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 31, 10:43 am, Monkey Clumps <spacebrai... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 10:35 am, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
If it warms enough maybe we will get to see why Greenland was named
Greenland.
[/quote]
Too late by years, Mr Clumps.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1001/p01s02-wogn.html?page=1 |
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| dkat... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:53 pm |
|
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Guest
|
On Oct 31, 3:06 pm, matt_sykes <zzeb... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On 31 Oct, 16:35, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
Your point? What you say does nothing to negate the fact that we are
going through what will be one of the more drastic changes in climate
that the world has seen since mankind man has formed civilized, stable
communities. The climate we have had has allowed us to develop
agriculture, our arts, science, architecture, etc. It has allowed us
to become 'civilized'. The ignorance you see with deniers is
overwhelming. For the poster who said we will now get to see why
Greenland was called Greenland - it was not because Greenland was
'green' . This was a PR trick to try to get people to settle there.
Read some history. There is going to be varience in climate
tempertures over decades. This is entirely different than what glogal
warming is. Read statistics on local max mins.
What the great danger of global warming is, is not that the world
temperature is going to be a few degrees warmer. It is the weather
patterns that are now happening and will continue to happen from this
changing temperture. Sure, humans will adapt but without our changing
our current behaviour it is going to be at great cost and with great
loss. |
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| Back to top |
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|
| leonard78sp at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:22 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 31, 11:35 am, Hopeless Harry Hopeless <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
[quote]In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
[/quote]
•• Bullshit
[quote]Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
[/quote]
•• The predictions have all come from the Bullshit
In == Bullshit Out devices called computer
models. About as useful as a bikini in a blizzard. |
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|
| john fernbach... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:31 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 31, 9:53 pm, dkat <dkats... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 3:06 pm, matt_sykes <zzeb... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On 31 Oct, 16:35, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves..
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your point? What you say does nothing to negate the fact that we are
going through what will be one of the more drastic changes in climate
that the world has seen since mankind man has formed civilized, stable
communities. The climate we have had has allowed us to develop
agriculture, our arts, science, architecture, etc. It has allowed us
to become 'civilized'. The ignorance you see with deniers is
overwhelming. For the poster who said we will now get to see why
Greenland was called Greenland - it was not because Greenland was
'green' . This was a PR trick to try to get people to settle there.
Read some history. There is going to be varience in climate
tempertures over decades. This is entirely different than what glogal
warming is. Read statistics on local max mins.
What the great danger of global warming is, is not that the world
temperature is going to be a few degrees warmer. It is the weather
patterns that are now happening and will continue to happen from this
changing temperture. Sure, humans will adapt but without our changing
our current behaviour it is going to be at great cost and with great
loss.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
Very well spoken. The question isn't just whether Greenland is going
to get warmer and lose a lot of ice. The question is what will the
meltwater from the ice do to the rest of the world, and what the
forces that are warming up the ice will do to the rest of the world,
also.
But indeed, "Greenland" was badly misnamed by Eric the Red because he
wanted to lure potential settlers to the island.
Admittedly, the big island was warmer when the Norse first settled
there than it later became during the "Little Ice Age" that began in
around 1350 AD. Jared Diamond deals with the sad history of the Norse
settlement in his book "Collapse." |
|
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| Back to top |
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|
| leonard78sp at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:35 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 31, 11:31 pm, john fernbach <fernbach1... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 9:53 pm, dkat <dkats... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 31, 3:06 pm, matt_sykes <zzeb... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On 31 Oct, 16:35, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day..
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought..
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid..
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your point? What you say does nothing to negate the fact that we are
going through what will be one of the more drastic changes in climate
that the world has seen since mankind man has formed civilized, stable
communities. The climate we have had has allowed us to develop
agriculture, our arts, science, architecture, etc. It has allowed us
to become 'civilized'. The ignorance you see with deniers is
overwhelming. For the poster who said we will now get to see why
Greenland was called Greenland - it was not because Greenland was
'green' . This was a PR trick to try to get people to settle there.
Read some history. There is going to be varience in climate
tempertures over decades. This is entirely different than what glogal
warming is. Read statistics on local max mins.
What the great danger of global warming is, is not that the world
temperature is going to be a few degrees warmer. It is the weather
patterns that are now happening and will continue to happen from this
changing temperture. Sure, humans will adapt but without our changing
our current behaviour it is going to be at great cost and with great
loss.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Very well spoken. The question isn't just whether Greenland is going
to get warmer and lose a lot of ice. The question is what will the
meltwater from the ice do to the rest of the world, and what the
forces that are warming up the ice will do to the rest of the world,
also.
But indeed, "Greenland" was badly misnamed by Eric the Red because he
wanted to lure potential settlers to the island.
Admittedly, the big island was warmer when the Norse first settled
there than it later became during the "Little Ice Age" that began in
around 1350 AD. Jared Diamond deals with the sad history of the Norse
settlement in his book "Collapse."
[/quote]
•• it is not happening and will not happen
any time in the next 100 millenia
–– ––
In real science the burden of proof is always on
the proposer, never on the sceptics. So far
neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one
iota of valid data for global warming nor have
they provided data that climate change is being
effected by commerce and industry, and not by
natural phenomena. |
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|
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| ... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:36 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 1, 2:35 am, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[quote]In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
[/quote]
These guys couldn't even predict the GFC.
[quote]
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
[/quote]
And every year about 6 months later the same amount freezes up again,
sometimes in Greenland, sometimes somewhere else.
Overall global ice coverage remains the same.
Incidently if an iceberg melts it doesn't raise sea levels one single
millionth of a meter. That's called archidmedes principal. The ice
contracts as it melts and so the level can't change.
The worst, absolute worst that can happen is 18cm to 54cm and would
require the oceans to warm, something which ISN"T happening according
to the ARGO probes.
Greenland used to grow wheat crops. Finland used to grow grapes.
(Vinland). Don't fear warmth fear cold.
The Thames not only had ice on it in 1805 it froze over. Clearly
climate fluctuates a few degrees and we're in the middle of one now.
Yawn. |
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| John M.... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:46 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 31, 1:06 pm, matt_sykes <zzeb... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On 31 Oct, 16:35, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum.
[/quote]
Which area of Greenland are you speaking of? I read somewhere that N.
Greenland is the warmest it has been for many millenia so either the
current changes are uneven - or you are offering duff information.. |
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| Back to top |
|
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| John M.... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:48 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 31, 11:29 am, Monkey Clumps <spacebrai... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 12:13 pm, JohnM <john_howard_mor... at (no spam) hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:43 am, Monkey Clumps <spacebrai... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:35 am, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day..
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought..
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid..
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
If it warms enough maybe we will get to see why Greenland was named
Greenland.
Too late by years, Mr Clumps.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1001/p01s02-wogn.html?page=1
Wow, they can grow potatoes now. Will the horrors of global warming
ever cease? Let's spend trillions of dollars to stop this horrible
disaster.
[/quote]
It doesn't alter the fact that you implicitly posted mis-information. |
|
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| Back to top |
|
|
|
| leonard78sp at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:58 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Nov 1, 8:46Â am, "John M." <jmorgan1234... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 1:06Â pm, matt_sykes <zzeb... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
On 31 Oct, 16:35, Harry Hope <riv... at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
............................................................................Â....................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
............................................................................Â.........................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves..
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
............................................................................Â......................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................Â................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
............................................................................Â.......................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
............................................................................Â...........................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum.
Which area of Greenland are you speaking of? I read somewhere that N.
Greenland is the warmest it has been for many millenia so either the
current changes are uneven - or you are offering duff information..
[/quote]
•• You are reading fiction
 ––  –– 
Â
In real science the burden of proof is always on 
Â
the proposer, never on the sceptics. So far 
Â
neither IPCC nor anyone else has provided one 
Â
iota of valid data for global warming nor have 
Â
they provided data that climate change is being
effected by commerce and industry, and not by 
Â
natural phenomena. |
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| Back to top |
|
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| Bret Cahill... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:35 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
[quote]In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day.
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought.
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid.
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
If it warms enough maybe we will get to see why Greenland was named
Greenland.
Too late by years, Mr Clumps.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1001/p01s02-wogn.html?page=1
Wow, they can grow potatoes now. Will the horrors of global warming
ever cease? Let's spend trillions of dollars to stop this horrible
disaster.
It doesn't alter the fact that you implicitly posted mis-information.
[/quote]
Not that you can expect a serious response from anyone posting under a
handle like "Monkey Clumps" but first rightards deny AGW or at least
treat it with a great deal of levity and when presented with
irrefutable evidence it exists they then suggest it's a good thing.
They don't seem to understand that once they've blown their
credibility that it exists then they have weakened their credibility
that it's a good thing.
Bret Cahill |
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| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Bret Cahill... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:53 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
[quote]In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
From The Financial Times, 10/30/09:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/91635aac-c207-11de-be3a-00144feab49a.html
Greenland is warming up
By Fiona Harvey
................................................................................................................
Every year, 35 billion tonnes of ice break free of the Greenland ice
sheet here.
Only the mammoth glaciers of Antarctica can compare.
The Isbrae – also known as Sermeq Kujalleq – moves at 40m a day..
For glaciers, this is pretty quick.
Glaciers have always made their way to the sea.
Snow falls on the vast Greenland ice sheet – this is by far the
world’s biggest island – and the weight pushes out the ice at the
edges.
But the remarkable thing about the Jakobshavn Isbrae – and nearly all
of Greenland’s glaciers, and most of the glaciers in the world – is
how fast those outward waves are flowing now.
In 2002, when researchers measured the Jakobshavn Isbrae, which drains
6.5 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet, it was moving only half as
quickly as it is today, and pouring only half the present volume of
ice into the fjord.
The earliest known maps of this glacier date from the 1850s, but
observations of it have intensified since the 1950s.
They track the marked acceleration of the ice over recent decades, and
show its speed increasing dramatically in the past few years.
The Hellheim glacier, draining 4 per cent of the Greenland ice sheet,
tells a similar story.
Its speed increased from 8km a year in 2000 to 11km a year in 2005,
and has since accelerated.
The reason the glaciers are speeding up is simple:
Greenland is getting warmer.
Jacqueline McGlade, director of the European Environment Agency, says:
“The amount of ice that is being lost is far more than we thought..
Greenland is warming faster than the computer models predicted, and
that is a worry.”
The Arctic has warmed at three times the rate of the rest of the world
in the past 100 years, and temperatures continue to rise.
Ola Johannessen, chief of Norway’s Nansen Environmental and Remote
Sensing Centre, has worked on ice for more than 30 years.
He has never seen anything like the current situation.
“There is no doubt that what we are seeing is the result of global
warming. The glaciers are moving faster. Ice is being lost from the
Greenland ice sheet, and that will raise sea levels.”
In the past two decades, the evidence for global warming has piled so
high it is no longer disputed by mainstream scientists.
Much of this evidence has come from Greenland, as have the long
climate records that have allowed scientists to predict the future
progress of global warming.
.....................................................................................................................
The tale the ice cores tell is full of foreboding.
Climate changes of the past have not been slow, gradual increases in
temperature.
Rather, they have been abrupt – sudden and steep warmings and
coolings, sometimes over a matter of decades.
This has led researchers to suggest that certain feedback loops, or
tipping points, exist in the earth’s climate system – points at which
the warming or cooling becomes self-reinforcing and much more rapid..
Some feedback effects are already at work in Greenland.
Stand on top of a glacier, far from where the bergs calve with loud
cracks, and you hear a strange background murmur, a ceaseless
whispering that appears to have no source.
This is the sound of meltwater rushing down through fissures in the
ice.
When it reaches the bottom, the water lubricates the flow of the ice
over the rocks beneath, speeding the glaciers on their way.
The more meltwater, the more lubrication and the faster the ice moves.
Other tipping points might include the rapid disappearance of the
Amazon rainforest, which could be caused by drought.
If that happened, all the carbon the forests absorb would be released,
and global warming would accelerate.
If temperatures rose more than 4°C above pre-industrial levels,
catastrophe would ensue, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change.
More than one-third of the world’s species would disappear; hundreds
of millions of people would face famine; floods and storms would whip
rich and poor countries alike.
..................................................................................................................................
Kyoto was greeted as a triumph in 1997 when it was signed, but
scarcely was the ink dry than the whole project collapsed.
It became clear the US Congress would never ratify it.
............................................................................................................................
When George W. Bush took office, Kyoto looked to be on the scrapheap
of history.
...................................................................................................................
Things have changed since Bush left office.
Now no country wishes to be left out and all profess eagerness for a
deal.
.......................................................................................................................
The real threat of climate change is not that the ice will melt
(though when it does, we are in trouble because the departure of
reflective ice leaves dark sea that absorbs more of the sun’s heat,
increasing the rate of global warming in another feedback loop).
The real disruptions of climate change will be felt far from here:
in sub-Saharan Africa, where the heat will become unbearable;
in south-east Asia, where rising sea levels will claim more and more
land and typhoons will destroy towns and villages;
in southern Europe, where drought will render the land unsuitable for
agriculture.
The biggest threat of all is to the world’s social and political
stability – the famines, droughts, floods and storms of a warming
world could cause prolonged conflict, mass migration on a scale we
shudder to imagine, and a counter-reaction to that migration from the
lucky northern countries.
It’s just that Greenland, and the rest of the Arctic, are where we see
the first and clearest signs of rapidly increasing temperatures and
their effects on the natural world.
________________________________________________________
Harry
And its still not as warm in Greenland as it was in the 30'sm or the
MWPm or the holocene maximum.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your point? What you say does nothing to negate the fact that we are
going through what will be one of the more drastic changes in climate
that the world has seen since mankind man has formed civilized, stable
communities. The climate we have had has allowed us to develop
agriculture, our arts, science, architecture, etc. It has allowed us
to become 'civilized'. The ignorance you see with deniers is
overwhelming. For the poster who said we will now get to see why
Greenland was called Greenland - it was not because Greenland was
'green' . This was a PR trick to try to get people to settle there.
Read some history. There is going to be varience in climate
tempertures over decades. This is entirely different than what glogal
warming is. Read statistics on local max mins.
What the great danger of global warming is, is not that the world
temperature is going to be a few degrees warmer. It is the weather
patterns that are now happening and will continue to happen from this
changing temperture. Sure, humans will adapt but without our changing
our current behaviour it is going to be at great cost and with great
loss.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Very well spoken. The question isn't just whether Greenland is going
to get warmer and lose a lot of ice. The question is what will the
meltwater from the ice do to the rest of the world, and what the
forces that are warming up the ice will do to the rest of the world,
also.
But indeed, "Greenland" was badly misnamed by Eric the Red because he
wanted to lure potential settlers to the island.
[/quote]
The cold Nordic version of a Florida land scam. "Iceland" didn't work
even though it had plenty of geothermal and was a better place to live
than Greenland.
[quote]Admittedly, the big island was warmer when the Norse first settled
there than it later became during the "Little Ice Age" that began in
around 1350 AD. Jared Diamond deals with the sad history of the Norse
settlement in his book "Collapse."
[/quote]
You'ld be better off dying of malaria in the tropics.
Bret Cahill |
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