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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:05 am |
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Guest
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[quote]The UK Today, 30 Oct 2009
Prof David Nutt, chief government drugs advisor, has been kicked out one
day after telling the government the truth about the relative risks of
taking various drugs.
The Prof said that LSD, cannabis and Ecstasy were safer than alcohol and
tobacco. The statistics were not in doubt. The government just thought
he should have kept a little quiet about them.
He was also asked by the health minister to apologise to parents who's
kids died from these non-christian drugs. Not that there are any.
[/quote]
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
So where do you think the billions of pounds of sales tax fits,
knowing how easy it is to produce the other stimulants 'at home'?.
When a government has a choice between revenue and religious views the
answer is totally obvious.
[quote]
And Christianity is what it's about. ANY drug that brings experiences
that challenge religious belief and the doctrines of psychology is
taboo. That's why fags and beer are moral drugs and the rest aren't.
Careful, you will upset 'fags' in the US.
Sure, many shamanic style religious experiences depend on certain[/quote]
herbs, but are you seriously suggesting most people indulge because
of
a religious expectation?Im sure there are many Christians indulge.
[quote]
Ancient, mostly tribal, moral forces are the reason for the panic over
Prof. Nutt's revelations and his sacking. The scientific community are
up in arms over it, and the media is suffering from acute embarrassment
as its own historically two-faced posturing becomes evident. That's
democracy not working for you and me.
Its all about the revenue, but if you really wish to go deeper,it is[/quote]
also about where the illicit revenue ends up.
"Just ask Joe Kennedy"
[quote]
BOfL[/quote] |
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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:06 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 31, 7:13 pm, "Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)
ho... at (no spam) yahoo.co> wrote:
[quote]bigflet... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
As often happens just keep sacking scientists until you find one who'll give
you the results you want.- Hide quoted text -
It is not hard to imagine the number of scientists who will feel[/quote]
financially vulnerable given the amount of information coming out re
CO2, counter to the politically motivated agendas.
Interesting times indeed.
Notice there is not much publicity regarding last decades''gloom'
focus, being the repairing of the ozone layer.
In Perth,where I live,we were supposed to be roasted by now.
I believe the massive lightening storms, in the Kimberlies, (NW
wilderness), similar to those in Bolivia, creates massive amounts of
ozone.
Over the years I have developed more confidence in natures way of
balancing, than the information we get from our lords and masters. It
is not the science that misleads, but the way information is released,
and on such issues it is not difficult to speculate on a feasable
political motive.
Sure, there are the ethical tomes, like Nature and New Sciensits, but
that info often doesnt spread. There seems to be little appetite for
good news in the main media, and of course, most of the media is owned
by a few with strong political agendas.
BOfL |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:13 am |
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Guest
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<bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c46a6c31-0274-4373-bdec-809685679c57 at (no spam) o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
[quote]The UK Today, 30 Oct 2009
Prof David Nutt, chief government drugs advisor, has been kicked out one
day after telling the government the truth about the relative risks of
taking various drugs.
The Prof said that LSD, cannabis and Ecstasy were safer than alcohol and
tobacco. The statistics were not in doubt. The government just thought
he should have kept a little quiet about them.
He was also asked by the health minister to apologise to parents who's
kids died from these non-christian drugs. Not that there are any.
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
So where do you think the billions of pounds of sales tax fits,
knowing how easy it is to produce the other stimulants 'at home'?.
When a government has a choice between revenue and religious views the
answer is totally obvious.
And Christianity is what it's about. ANY drug that brings experiences
that challenge religious belief and the doctrines of psychology is
taboo. That's why fags and beer are moral drugs and the rest aren't.
Careful, you will upset 'fags' in the US.
Sure, many shamanic style religious experiences depend on certain
herbs, but are you seriously suggesting most people indulge because
of
a religious expectation?Im sure there are many Christians indulge.
Ancient, mostly tribal, moral forces are the reason for the panic over
Prof. Nutt's revelations and his sacking. The scientific community are
up in arms over it, and the media is suffering from acute embarrassment
as its own historically two-faced posturing becomes evident. That's
democracy not working for you and me.
Its all about the revenue, but if you really wish to go deeper,it is
also about where the illicit revenue ends up.
"Just ask Joe Kennedy"
As often happens just keep sacking scientists until you find one who'll give[/quote]
you the results you want. |
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| John Stafford... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:31 am |
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Guest
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[quote]Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
[/quote]
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
Another little factoid to play with is the role of tobacco and
schizophrenia. Look it up. |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:53 am |
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Guest
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<bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5adbba52-de1f-4394-8901-d16834d9248c at (no spam) f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 31, 7:13 pm, "Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)
ho... at (no spam) yahoo.co> wrote:
[quote]bigflet... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
As often happens just keep sacking scientists until you find one who'll
give
you the results you want.- Hide quoted text -
It is not hard to imagine the number of scientists who will feel[/quote]
financially vulnerable given the amount of information coming out re
CO2, counter to the politically motivated agendas.
Interesting times indeed.
Notice there is not much publicity regarding last decades''gloom'
focus, being the repairing of the ozone layer.
In Perth,where I live,we were supposed to be roasted by now.
I believe the massive lightening storms, in the Kimberlies, (NW
wilderness), similar to those in Bolivia, creates massive amounts of
ozone.
Over the years I have developed more confidence in natures way of
balancing, than the information we get from our lords and masters. It
is not the science that misleads, but the way information is released,
and on such issues it is not difficult to speculate on a feasable
political motive.
Sure, there are the ethical tomes, like Nature and New Sciensits, but
that info often doesnt spread. There seems to be little appetite for
good news in the main media, and of course, most of the media is owned
by a few with strong political agendas.
=Not sure it is right to blame media owners for the content of the media.
This is mostly driven by the consumers of that media, I would say. If people
didn't buy it they would soon change the message, and indeed do. People like
clear and dramatic news, not complex and unsurprising, like reality
basically is often. |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:56 am |
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Guest
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"John Stafford" <nhoj at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-C60846.08312031102009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
[quote]
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
[/quote]
Then it obviously didn't work, as a medication.
[quote]
Another little factoid to play with is the role of tobacco and
schizophrenia. Look it up.[/quote] |
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| John Jones... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:18 am |
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Guest
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bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:
[quote]The UK Today, 30 Oct 2009
Prof David Nutt, chief government drugs advisor, has been kicked out one
day after telling the government the truth about the relative risks of
taking various drugs.
The Prof said that LSD, cannabis and Ecstasy were safer than alcohol and
tobacco. The statistics were not in doubt. The government just thought
he should have kept a little quiet about them.
He was also asked by the health minister to apologise to parents who's
kids died from these non-christian drugs. Not that there are any.
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
[/quote]
The government advisor pointed out the facts which show that cannabis is
less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol. This "schizophrenia" is hype,
and simply a narrow way of interpreting marijuana behaviour as nutty.
[quote]
So where do you think the billions of pounds of sales tax fits,
knowing how easy it is to produce the other stimulants 'at home'?.
When a government has a choice between revenue and religious views the
answer is totally obvious.
And Christianity is what it's about. ANY drug that brings experiences
that challenge religious belief and the doctrines of psychology is
taboo. That's why fags and beer are moral drugs and the rest aren't.
Careful, you will upset 'fags' in the US.
Sure, many shamanic style religious experiences depend on certain
herbs, but are you seriously suggesting most people indulge because
of
a religious expectation?Im sure there are many Christians indulge.
[/quote]
A true christian would reject as nutty and anti-religious the sort of
experiences that cannabis can bring.
[quote]
Ancient, mostly tribal, moral forces are the reason for the panic over
Prof. Nutt's revelations and his sacking. The scientific community are
up in arms over it, and the media is suffering from acute embarrassment
as its own historically two-faced posturing becomes evident. That's
democracy not working for you and me.
Its all about the revenue, but if you really wish to go deeper,it is
also about where the illicit revenue ends up.
"Just ask Joe Kennedy"
BOfL[/quote] |
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| John Stafford... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:38 am |
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Guest
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In article <45OdnW5XLtPI6nDXnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com>,
"Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)holme at (no spam) yahoo.co>
wrote:
[quote]"John Stafford" <nhoj at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-C60846.08312031102009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
Then it obviously didn't work, as a medication.
[/quote]
Perhaps it also did no harm: the individuals were bound to illness
regardless. The link to their schizophrenia could be as significant to
coffee, too. |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:50 am |
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Guest
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"John Stafford" <nhoj at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-A375E2.10384901112009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
[quote]In article <45OdnW5XLtPI6nDXnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com>,
"Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)holme at (no spam) yahoo.co
wrote:
"John Stafford" <nhoj at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-C60846.08312031102009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
Then it obviously didn't work, as a medication.
Perhaps it also did no harm: the individuals were bound to illness
regardless. The link to their schizophrenia could be as significant to
coffee, too.
[/quote]
True, but if the stat/factoid is accurate thats a ten fold increase in
incidence! Howeever I understand that the rate of schiz in the GP has not
really increased tho cannabis has massively. |
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| Giga... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:57 am |
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Guest
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"John Jones" <jonescardiff at (no spam) btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:hcjuas$qbr$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
[quote]bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:
The UK Today, 30 Oct 2009
Prof David Nutt, chief government drugs advisor, has been kicked out one
day after telling the government the truth about the relative risks of
taking various drugs.
The Prof said that LSD, cannabis and Ecstasy were safer than alcohol and
tobacco. The statistics were not in doubt. The government just thought
he should have kept a little quiet about them.
He was also asked by the health minister to apologise to parents who's
kids died from these non-christian drugs. Not that there are any.
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
The government advisor pointed out the facts which show that cannabis is
less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol. This "schizophrenia" is hype, and
simply a narrow way of interpreting marijuana behaviour as nutty.
So where do you think the billions of pounds of sales tax fits,
knowing how easy it is to produce the other stimulants 'at home'?.
When a government has a choice between revenue and religious views the
answer is totally obvious.
And Christianity is what it's about. ANY drug that brings experiences
that challenge religious belief and the doctrines of psychology is
taboo. That's why fags and beer are moral drugs and the rest aren't.
Careful, you will upset 'fags' in the US.
Sure, many shamanic style religious experiences depend on certain
herbs, but are you seriously suggesting most people indulge because
of
a religious expectation?Im sure there are many Christians indulge.
A true christian would reject as nutty and anti-religious the sort of
experiences that cannabis can bring.
[/quote]
There is little doubt in my mind that cannabis (and other drugs) can open
the mind (sometimes a little too much). If we look at how Western society
has changed (60s-80s) in spiritual terms, New Agism etc, and social justice
terms, civil/human rights, it seems like it fairly well tracks widespread
cannabis use. Clearly drug-use and counter-cultural forces have often gone
hand-in-hand, hippies etc, and of course established cultural structures
will oppose anything with that tendency.
[quote]
Ancient, mostly tribal, moral forces are the reason for the panic over
Prof. Nutt's revelations and his sacking. The scientific community are
up in arms over it, and the media is suffering from acute embarrassment
as its own historically two-faced posturing becomes evident. That's
democracy not working for you and me.
Its all about the revenue, but if you really wish to go deeper,it is
also about where the illicit revenue ends up.
"Just ask Joe Kennedy"
BOfL[/quote] |
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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:51 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 31, 9:31 pm, John Stafford <n... at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote:
[quote]Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
Another little factoid to play with is the role of tobacco and
schizophrenia. Look it up.
[/quote]
I used to surprise many people by suggesting the same thing re
cigarette smoking, that there was no proof that people who smoked
didnt also have a predisposition to various cancers.
Very difficult, because there are many scientific disciplines
involved, often having different perceptions.
The only true teacher is experience, so if your children wish to take
up either, Im sure you will give then your blessing.
What I do, is suggest some of the reasons these activities emerge,
and the alternatives, and leave the rest to providence (I have
predetermined genetic disposition for such attitudes).
In the case of the hydroponically grown version, there is now evidence
of neuron damage observed with brain scans in the same locations.
Makes sense to me, because of my view that artificially created highs
always have a negative outcome on some level, and tissue damage is one
of a number of examples.
We now that there is an 'alchoholic gene', but that doesnt dictate the
massive human suffering that comes with over indulgence regardless of
the genetic situation.
BOfL |
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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:13 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 2, 12:38 am, John Stafford <n... at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote:
[quote]In article <45OdnW5XLtPI6nDXnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn... at (no spam) giganews.com>,
"Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)ho... at (no spam) yahoo.co
wrote:
"John Stafford" <n... at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-C60846.08312031102009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
Then it obviously didn't work, as a medication.
Perhaps it also did no harm: the individuals were bound to illness
regardless. The link to their schizophrenia could be as significant to
coffee, too.
[/quote]
If the neuro evidence is there, then so be it.
BOfL |
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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:20 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 2, 5:57 pm, "Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)
ho... at (no spam) yahoo.co> wrote:
[quote]"John Jones" <jonescard... at (no spam) btinternet.com> wrote in message
There is little doubt in my mind that cannabis (and other drugs) can open
the mind (sometimes a little too much). If we look at how Western society
has changed (60s-80s) in spiritual terms, New Agism etc, and social justice
terms, civil/human rights, it seems like it fairly well tracks widespread
cannabis use. Clearly drug-use and counter-cultural forces have often gone
hand-in-hand, hippies etc, and of course established cultural structures
will oppose anything with that tendency.
[/quote]
And here's me thinking it was to do with the hole in the ozone
layer.. ...that and post war appreciation of life and a curiosity of
how to prevent further mutual destruction.
BOfL
> |
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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:21 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 2, 5:50 pm, "Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)
ho... at (no spam) yahoo.co> wrote:
[quote]"John Stafford" <n... at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-A375E2.10384901112009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
In article <45OdnW5XLtPI6nDXnZ2dnUVZ_oWdn... at (no spam) giganews.com>,
"Giga" <"Giga" <just(removetheseandaddmatthe end)ho... at (no spam) yahoo.co
wrote:
"John Stafford" <n... at (no spam) droffats.ten> wrote in message
news:nhoj-C60846.08312031102009 at (no spam) news.supernews.com...
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
That is an empty factoid. How do we know that the 10% did not smoke
marijuana to self-medicate the emerging condition of schizophrenia that
was genetically caused?
Then it obviously didn't work, as a medication.
Perhaps it also did no harm: the individuals were bound to illness
regardless. The link to their schizophrenia could be as significant to
coffee, too.
True, but if the stat/factoid is accurate thats a ten fold increase in
incidence! Howeever I understand that the rate of schiz in the GP has not
really increased tho cannabis has massively.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
I have also read counter claims, and have very good reasons to look
closely, but as I have said befor, even scientific findings can be
anecdotal to laymen, particularly if scientists disagree.
BOfL |
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| bigfletch8 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:01 pm |
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Guest
|
On Nov 1, 8:18 pm, John Jones <jonescard... at (no spam) btinternet.com> wrote:
[quote]bigflet... at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:
The UK Today, 30 Oct 2009
Prof David Nutt, chief government drugs advisor, has been kicked out one
day after telling the government the truth about the relative risks of
taking various drugs.
The Prof said that LSD, cannabis and Ecstasy were safer than alcohol and
tobacco. The statistics were not in doubt. The government just thought
he should have kept a little quiet about them.
He was also asked by the health minister to apologise to parents who's
kids died from these non-christian drugs. Not that there are any.
Ten% of 'hydroponically produced' marijuana smokers who regularly
smoke, from 15 yrs upwards, develop schizophrenia. Dont be fooled into
believing they have a clean bill of health
The government advisor pointed out the facts which show that cannabis is
less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol. This "schizophrenia" is hype,
and simply a narrow way of interpreting marijuana behaviour as nutty.
So where do you think the billions of pounds of sales tax fits,
knowing how easy it is to produce the other stimulants 'at home'?.
When a government has a choice between revenue and religious views the
answer is totally obvious.
And Christianity is what it's about. ANY drug that brings experiences
that challenge religious belief and the doctrines of psychology is
taboo. That's why fags and beer are moral drugs and the rest aren't.
Careful, you will upset 'fags' in the US.
Sure, many shamanic style religious experiences depend on certain
herbs, but are you seriously suggesting most people indulge because
of
a religious expectation?Im sure there are many Christians indulge.
A true christian would reject as nutty and anti-religious the sort of
experiences that cannabis can bring.
Ancient, mostly tribal, moral forces are the reason for the panic over
Prof. Nutt's revelations and his sacking. The scientific community are
up in arms over it, and the media is suffering from acute embarrassment
as its own historically two-faced posturing becomes evident. That's
democracy not working for you and me.
Its all about the revenue, but if you really wish to go deeper,it is
also about where the illicit revenue ends up.
"Just ask Joe Kennedy"
BOfL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
Rely on plants if you must. I personally think such use is an insult
to the incredible brain up there, which generates natural highs,
resulting from constructive behaviour.
The only down side Ive heard from life long runners for examples, are
bunions, and they can be quite sexy if they are connected to a healthy
brain/healthy body:-)
I remember recently talking to a friends daughter who admitedely has
been in a terrible life threatening extreme drug mess a few times.
During a period where she was lucid, I was talking of the natural
highs that running can bring. She was quite surprised, and said "thats
what was happening when I used to run!"...she had no idea.
BOfL |
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