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| Eugene Griessel... |
 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:12 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:55:35 -0800 (PST), mike <marathag at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Nov 1, 10:13 am, Eugene Griessel <eug... at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
I have been scouring my literature for an early Israeli "naval" vessel
which was an ex-coast guard cutter with a field gun lashed to the
focsle. I have an idea that this may have been a French 75mm but
nothing I have actually mentions which gun it was. Anyone have more
info?
They also seemed to have a supply of Great War era
Ehrhardt and/or Krupp 77mm field guns, in addition
to the French gun: might have been one of those.
Any pictures anywhere?
[/quote]
Ok - I unearthed my notes - I was wrong it was a 60mm wheeled mountain
gun (according to what I was told) that was used. The ship was the
ex-Northland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Northland_(WPG-49)
Eugene L Griessel
Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.
- I post only from Sci.Military.Naval - |
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| Eugene Griessel... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:30 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 14:24:24 -0800 (PST), Jack Linthicum
<jacklinthicum at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 1, 5:12 pm, Eugene Griessel <eug... at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:55:35 -0800 (PST), mike <marat... at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On Nov 1, 10:13 am, Eugene Griessel <eug... at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
I have been scouring my literature for an early Israeli "naval" vessel
which was an ex-coast guard cutter with a field gun lashed to the
focsle. I have an idea that this may have been a French 75mm but
nothing I have actually mentions which gun it was. Anyone have more
info?
They also seemed to have a supply of Great War era
Ehrhardt and/or Krupp 77mm field guns, in addition
to the French gun: might have been one of those.
Any pictures anywhere?
Ok - I unearthed my notes - I was wrong it was a 60mm wheeled mountain
gun (according to what I was told) that was used. The ship was the
ex-Northland.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Northland_(WPG-49)
Eugene L Griessel
Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.
- I post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
Interesting bucket, built for ice breaking duty in the Arctic, served
in the war and listed as "sold for scrap"
http://wertheimer.info/family/GRAMPS/WEBINDEX/HAAPALAH/img/b/2/b267b3cefd656de316e.html
text
http://wertheimer.info/family/GRAMPS/WEBINDEX/HAAPALAH/plc/b/0/b041884b54b69c91f22.html
some from Haze Gray, Northland shown with masts.
Mystery Picture #88
This is the Coast Guard Arctic patrol cutter Northland (WPG 49).
Northland was a unique cutter, built specifically for Bering Sea
Patrol, to replace the ancient cutter Bear. When Northland replaced
Bear in 1927, the old wooden cutter was some 54 years old! Northland
was originally fitted with masts and sails as shown here, but this rig
was later removed. She was fitted to carry a seaplane aft. From 1927
through 1939 Northland served on the Bering Sea Patrol. During WWII
she shifted to the Greenland Patrol, serving alongside the old Bear,
which had been brought in government service once again.
In 1947 Northland was sold, apparently for scrapping. However, she
eventually made her way across the Atlantic, was renamed Jewish State,
and transported Jewish refugees to Palestine. In 1948 she was renamed
Eilat (or Elath) and became the flagship of the infant Israeli Navy.
Later she became a training ship, and in 1955 was renamed Matzpen,
serving as a barracks or depot hulk. She was finally scrapped in 1962.
http://www.hazegray.org/mysteries/oldmyst/ansgrp08.htm
[/quote]
The Israeli navy, in 1948, was a motley collection of unseaworthy
decrepit hulks - most of them bought from the breakers to ship illegal
immigrants - pressed into service with the most unlikely outfits of
weaponry. Probably more dangerous to the crews than the enemy!
Eugene L Griessel
The most useful thing about a principle
is that it can always be sacrificed to expediency.
- I post only from Sci.Military.Naval - |
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| Jack Linthicum... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:31 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
[quote]In article <0rmte59a9d5a6ktgsntjkq8b5jols36... at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
aglooka <t... at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:01:50 -0500, wrhamb... at (no spam) comcast.net wrote:
On 2009-10-31, ken... at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk <ken... at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
In article <4cple55l349gleunc1iv42qvi7hjnfm... at (no spam) 4ax.com>, t... at (no spam) test.com
(aglooka) wrote:
Ii'm looking for information of the use of the famous French 75 field
gun (Canon de 75 Mle 1897) on ships.
The shell was a bit light for use on ships. I had a quick look at
Conway's 1906-1921 and found no mention of it. The 75 was built to solve
problems that really did not exist on ships like an absolute weight
limit for the complete equipment.
Ken Young
The 75 mm field gun was used as improvised armament mostly for river
patrol craft during WWI, the French needing guns in the worst way. The
Ian Allen book on French warships of the First World War has a little
information. 75s also were used during WWII and the Indochina War.
Bud
There was a flotilla of river craft, or rather barges, on the flemish
canals and rivers. These had heavier guns (ex-maritime) tough for long
distance work (from the head :100mm , 138 mm and 164mm). These barges
were mainly meant to give extra mobility to heavier guns, not for
front line patrolling. For the last function (in which the 75 mle 1897
would have been in its place) i don't think the French build any ships
during the war. Maybe some just after the war tough to patrol the
Rhine and subsidiaries.
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I'd suspect that WW1 naval use of the 75 was in similar roles: lightish ships,
unable to carry a heavy (or heavy-recoil) gunm but which nonetheless could do
with something capable of throwing a bigger brick than the venerable Hotchkiss
6lbr or Maxim pom-pom. Muzzle velocity doesn't matter that much in these
circumstances: you're firing from a manually-controlled mount, with local
sighting and control only, from a small ship. Unless you're up close and
personal with your opponent your best hope is that the shell goes somewhere in
their vicinity - and in this case a larger bursting charge makes it more like;y
that a splinter hits someone or something on t'other ship. If you /are/ up
close and personal, then you want something that makes a bigger bang when it
hits t'other bugger and stops (at least some of) them shooting at you.
If nothing else, a UB boat, caught on the surface charging batteries, has
a narrower range of options facing a 'chaser with a 75 than one with but a
Maxim pom-pom.
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
[/quote]
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H |
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| Jack Linthicum... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:59 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 2, 9:45 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
[quote]In article <cca68b1b-ce36-44fc-bf2c-f404d6691... at (no spam) o10g2000yqa.googlegroups..com>,
Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
/much chomped/
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H
Deffo not the book in question, as it lacks (and has always lacked, even before
some pages decided to stay at home when I moved) any discussion of insignia or
uniforms. Just ships, and nothing but ships (and all RN to boot, with the
exception of the MACs which also get in).
Publisher /might/ have been Ian Allen. Many things were at the time this
probably came out (1960d, maybe early 70s, at a guess..)
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
[/quote]
Using that
H.T. Lenton & J.J. Colledge "Warships of World War Two" (Ian
Allan, 1964)
Ian Allen has a series of "Warships of..(Country)" |
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| aglooka... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:12 am |
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Guest
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Maybe it was the 65mm Schneider-Ducrest mountain gun: Israel seem to
have gotten a stock of these in the early days and it is definetely
listed as the first field gun in Israeli service.
(if you search wikimedia commons for "Schneider-Ducrest"
(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Canon_de_65_M_mod%C3%A8le_1906_Schneider-Ducrest)you
get 4 different pieces in different museums in Israel one of which is
in the Naval museum in Haifa, with a modified mount ... )!
Some very short info on it in Israeli service:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_65_M_%28montagne%29_modele_1906
(BTW the 65mm is an interesting little fellow with amongst others a
differential recoil system)
Aglooka
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:12:50 +0200, Eugene Griessel
<eugene at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:55:35 -0800 (PST), mike <marathag at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On Nov 1, 10:13 am, Eugene Griessel <eug... at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
I have been scouring my literature for an early Israeli "naval" vessel
which was an ex-coast guard cutter with a field gun lashed to the
focsle. I have an idea that this may have been a French 75mm but
nothing I have actually mentions which gun it was. Anyone have more
info?
They also seemed to have a supply of Great War era
Ehrhardt and/or Krupp 77mm field guns, in addition
to the French gun: might have been one of those.
Any pictures anywhere?
Ok - I unearthed my notes - I was wrong it was a 60mm wheeled mountain
gun (according to what I was told) that was used. The ship was the
ex-Northland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Northland_(WPG-49)
Eugene L Griessel
Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.
- I post only from Sci.Military.Naval -[/quote] |
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| aglooka... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:20 am |
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Guest
|
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:01:50 -0500, wrhamblen at (no spam) comcast.net wrote:
[quote]On 2009-10-31, kenney at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk <kenney at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
In article <4cple55l349gleunc1iv42qvi7hjnfmgkt at (no spam) 4ax.com>, test at (no spam) test.com
(aglooka) wrote:
Ii'm looking for information of the use of the famous French 75 field
gun (Canon de 75 Mle 1897) on ships.
The shell was a bit light for use on ships. I had a quick look at
Conway's 1906-1921 and found no mention of it. The 75 was built to solve
problems that really did not exist on ships like an absolute weight
limit for the complete equipment.
Ken Young
The 75 mm field gun was used as improvised armament mostly for river
patrol craft during WWI, the French needing guns in the worst way. The
Ian Allen book on French warships of the First World War has a little
information. 75s also were used during WWII and the Indochina War.
Bud
[/quote]
There was a flotilla of river craft, or rather barges, on the flemish
canals and rivers. These had heavier guns (ex-maritime) tough for long
distance work (from the head :100mm , 138 mm and 164mm). These barges
were mainly meant to give extra mobility to heavier guns, not for
front line patrolling. For the last function (in which the 75 mle 1897
would have been in its place) i don't think the French build any ships
during the war. Maybe some just after the war tough to patrol the
Rhine and subsidiaries.
Many greetings
Aglooka |
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| aglooka... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:30 am |
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Guest
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I should have read the captions a bit better on these photographs. The
frist two of the guns are from the Naval museum. The caption reads its
is from the "INS Eilat (A-16)", this is the Ex-Northwind (for the name
see:
http://wertheimer.info/family/GRAMPS/WEBINDEX/HAAPALAH/plc/b/0/b041884b54b69c91f22.html,
near the bottom of the page)
another small riddle solved ?
Many greetings,
Aglooka
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:12:55 +0100, aglooka <test at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
[quote]Maybe it was the 65mm Schneider-Ducrest mountain gun: Israel seem to
have gotten a stock of these in the early days and it is definetely
listed as the first field gun in Israeli service.
(if you search wikimedia commons for "Schneider-Ducrest"
(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Canon_de_65_M_mod%C3%A8le_1906_Schneider-Ducrest)you
get 4 different pieces in different museums in Israel one of which is
in the Naval museum in Haifa, with a modified mount ... )!
Some very short info on it in Israeli service:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_65_M_%28montagne%29_modele_1906
(BTW the 65mm is an interesting little fellow with amongst others a
differential recoil system)
Aglooka
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:12:50 +0200, Eugene Griessel
eugene at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:55:35 -0800 (PST), mike <marathag at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On Nov 1, 10:13 am, Eugene Griessel <eug... at (no spam) dynagen.co.za> wrote:
I have been scouring my literature for an early Israeli "naval" vessel
which was an ex-coast guard cutter with a field gun lashed to the
focsle. I have an idea that this may have been a French 75mm but
nothing I have actually mentions which gun it was. Anyone have more
info?
They also seemed to have a supply of Great War era
Ehrhardt and/or Krupp 77mm field guns, in addition
to the French gun: might have been one of those.
Any pictures anywhere?
Ok - I unearthed my notes - I was wrong it was a 60mm wheeled mountain
gun (according to what I was told) that was used. The ship was the
ex-Northland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Northland_(WPG-49)
Eugene L Griessel
Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.
- I post only from Sci.Military.Naval -[/quote] |
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| Back to top |
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| Andrew Robert Breen... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:48 am |
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Guest
|
In article <0rmte59a9d5a6ktgsntjkq8b5jols36ja1 at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
aglooka <test at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:01:50 -0500, wrhamblen at (no spam) comcast.net wrote:
On 2009-10-31, kenney at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk <kenney at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
In article <4cple55l349gleunc1iv42qvi7hjnfmgkt at (no spam) 4ax.com>, test at (no spam) test.com
(aglooka) wrote:
Ii'm looking for information of the use of the famous French 75 field
gun (Canon de 75 Mle 1897) on ships.
The shell was a bit light for use on ships. I had a quick look at
Conway's 1906-1921 and found no mention of it. The 75 was built to solve
problems that really did not exist on ships like an absolute weight
limit for the complete equipment.
Ken Young
The 75 mm field gun was used as improvised armament mostly for river
patrol craft during WWI, the French needing guns in the worst way. The
Ian Allen book on French warships of the First World War has a little
information. 75s also were used during WWII and the Indochina War.
Bud
There was a flotilla of river craft, or rather barges, on the flemish
canals and rivers. These had heavier guns (ex-maritime) tough for long
distance work (from the head :100mm , 138 mm and 164mm). These barges
were mainly meant to give extra mobility to heavier guns, not for
front line patrolling. For the last function (in which the 75 mle 1897
would have been in its place) i don't think the French build any ships
during the war. Maybe some just after the war tough to patrol the
Rhine and subsidiaries.
[/quote]
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I'd suspect that WW1 naval use of the 75 was in similar roles: lightish ships,
unable to carry a heavy (or heavy-recoil) gunm but which nonetheless could do
with something capable of throwing a bigger brick than the venerable Hotchkiss
6lbr or Maxim pom-pom. Muzzle velocity doesn't matter that much in these
circumstances: you're firing from a manually-controlled mount, with local
sighting and control only, from a small ship. Unless you're up close and
personal with your opponent your best hope is that the shell goes somewhere in
their vicinity - and in this case a larger bursting charge makes it more like;y
that a splinter hits someone or something on t'other ship. If you /are/ up
close and personal, then you want something that makes a bigger bang when it
hits t'other bugger and stops (at least some of) them shooting at you.
If nothing else, a UB boat, caught on the surface charging batteries, has
a narrower range of options facing a 'chaser with a 75 than one with but a
Maxim pom-pom.
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) |
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| Andrew Robert Breen... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:45 am |
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Guest
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In article <cca68b1b-ce36-44fc-bf2c-f404d6691a13 at (no spam) o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Jack Linthicum <jacklinthicum at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
[/quote]
/much chomped/
[quote]
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H
[/quote]
Deffo not the book in question, as it lacks (and has always lacked, even before
some pages decided to stay at home when I moved) any discussion of insignia or
uniforms. Just ships, and nothing but ships (and all RN to boot, with the
exception of the MACs which also get in).
Publisher /might/ have been Ian Allen. Many things were at the time this
probably came out (1960d, maybe early 70s, at a guess..)
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) |
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| Back to top |
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| Andrew Robert Breen... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:18 am |
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Guest
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In article <fe5700b0-63cf-436a-916f-b86132ece200 at (no spam) d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Jack Linthicum <jacklinthicum at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 9:45 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article <cca68b1b-ce36-44fc-bf2c-f404d6691... at (no spam) o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi... at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
/much chomped/
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H
Deffo not the book in question, as it lacks (and has always lacked, even before
some pages decided to stay at home when I moved) any discussion of insignia or
uniforms. Just ships, and nothing but ships (and all RN to boot, with the
exception of the MACs which also get in).
Publisher /might/ have been Ian Allen. Many things were at the time this
probably came out (1960d, maybe early 70s, at a guess..)
Using that
H.T. Lenton & J.J. Colledge "Warships of World War Two" (Ian
Allan, 1964)
Ian Allen has a series of "Warships of..(Country)"
[/quote]
Aha. That seems plausible. Right title, right time interval, and pretty much
the right book format (small fat hardback) and style (lots of data, very
compressed) for an IA book of that era.
If anyone has a copy, then the picture in question is in the "coastal forces"
section (section 5? The book very much gives the impression of having started
as 6 shorter books, covering different catagories of warships: this, again,
would be typical of IA).
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) |
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| Peter Skelton... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:54 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:45:24 +0000, azb at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert
Breen) wrote:
[quote]In article <cca68b1b-ce36-44fc-bf2c-f404d6691a13 at (no spam) o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Jack Linthicum <jacklinthicum at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
/much chomped/
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H
Deffo not the book in question, as it lacks (and has always lacked, even before
some pages decided to stay at home when I moved) any discussion of insignia or
uniforms. Just ships, and nothing but ships (and all RN to boot, with the
exception of the MACs which also get in).
Publisher /might/ have been Ian Allen. Many things were at the time this
probably came out (1960d, maybe early 70s, at a guess..)
[/quote]
I've finally gone through Conways 06-21 and found
1) About 16 C-101 class sub-chasers built of 37 ordered. Not all
got the 75 mm army gun they were planned with
2) 2 Vigilante class river gunboats (China gunboats)
3) 40 V 1 class motor boats (British ML 114 seris built by Elco
of Bayonne through Vicker of Montreal, armed by the French with
an army 75 plus a y gun)
4) 10 V 41 class motor boats.
5) A variety of other motor boats whose details are ot available
some of whom probably had 75's
6) A number of auxillary monesweepers.
7) A total of 25 submarines
Possibly the last two groups got navy 75's (1903, memory mmv) but
it seems a number of army 75's got to sea with the French Navy
Peter Skelton |
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| William Hamblen... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:28 pm |
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On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:31:33 -0800 (PST), Jack Linthicum
<jacklinthicum at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article <0rmte59a9d5a6ktgsntjkq8b5jols36... at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
aglooka <t... at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:01:50 -0500, wrhamb... at (no spam) comcast.net wrote:
On 2009-10-31, ken... at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk <ken... at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
In article <4cple55l349gleunc1iv42qvi7hjnfm... at (no spam) 4ax.com>, t... at (no spam) test.com
(aglooka) wrote:
Ii'm looking for information of the use of the famous French 75 field
gun (Canon de 75 Mle 1897) on ships.
The shell was a bit light for use on ships. I had a quick look at
Conway's 1906-1921 and found no mention of it. The 75 was built to solve
problems that really did not exist on ships like an absolute weight
limit for the complete equipment.
Ken Young
The 75 mm field gun was used as improvised armament mostly for river
patrol craft during WWI, the French needing guns in the worst way. The
Ian Allen book on French warships of the First World War has a little
information. 75s also were used during WWII and the Indochina War.
Bud
There was a flotilla of river craft, or rather barges, on the flemish
canals and rivers. These had heavier guns (ex-maritime) tough for long
distance work (from the head :100mm , 138 mm and 164mm). These barges
were mainly meant to give extra mobility to heavier guns, not for
front line patrolling. For the last function (in which the 75 mle 1897
would have been in its place) i don't think the French build any ships
during the war. Maybe some just after the war tough to patrol the
Rhine and subsidiaries.
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I'd suspect that WW1 naval use of the 75 was in similar roles: lightish ships,
unable to carry a heavy (or heavy-recoil) gunm but which nonetheless could do
with something capable of throwing a bigger brick than the venerable Hotchkiss
6lbr or Maxim pom-pom. Muzzle velocity doesn't matter that much in these
circumstances: you're firing from a manually-controlled mount, with local
sighting and control only, from a small ship. Unless you're up close and
personal with your opponent your best hope is that the shell goes somewhere in
their vicinity - and in this case a larger bursting charge makes it more like;y
that a splinter hits someone or something on t'other ship. If you /are/ up
close and personal, then you want something that makes a bigger bang when it
hits t'other bugger and stops (at least some of) them shooting at you.
If nothing else, a UB boat, caught on the surface charging batteries, has
a narrower range of options facing a 'chaser with a 75 than one with but a
Maxim pom-pom.
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H
[/quote]
I have British and Commonwealth Warships of WW2 by H T Lenton and J J
Colledge, published by Ian Allen in the 1960s. A rather fat book.
It's only defect is NO INDEX!
Bud |
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| Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:44 pm |
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William Hamblen wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:31:33 -0800 (PST), Jack Linthicum
jacklinthicum at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote:
On Nov 2, 8:48 am, a... at (no spam) aber.ac.uk (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:
In article <0rmte59a9d5a6ktgsntjkq8b5jols36... at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
aglooka <t... at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:01:50 -0500, wrhamb... at (no spam) comcast.net wrote:
On 2009-10-31, ken... at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk <ken... at (no spam) cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
In article <4cple55l349gleunc1iv42qvi7hjnfm... at (no spam) 4ax.com>, t... at (no spam) test.com
(aglooka) wrote:
Ii'm looking for information of the use of the famous French 75 field
gun (Canon de 75 Mle 1897) on ships.
The shell was a bit light for use on ships. I had a quick look at
Conway's 1906-1921 and found no mention of it. The 75 was built to solve
problems that really did not exist on ships like an absolute weight
limit for the complete equipment.
Ken Young
The 75 mm field gun was used as improvised armament mostly for river
patrol craft during WWI, the French needing guns in the worst way. The
Ian Allen book on French warships of the First World War has a little
information. 75s also were used during WWII and the Indochina War.
Bud
There was a flotilla of river craft, or rather barges, on the flemish
canals and rivers. These had heavier guns (ex-maritime) tough for long
distance work (from the head :100mm , 138 mm and 164mm). These barges
were mainly meant to give extra mobility to heavier guns, not for
front line patrolling. For the last function (in which the 75 mle 1897
would have been in its place) i don't think the French build any ships
during the war. Maybe some just after the war tough to patrol the
Rhine and subsidiaries.
Found a photograph this morning in my old "Warships of WW2" (sorry, long ago
lost the spine and leading pages from it so no idea of authors or publications,
but it's a comprehensive listing of ships in British service during BM2,
auxiliaries included...). It shows a 1938-39 build (ex-)French steel-hull
submarine chaser (DIVALLE, IIRC..) serving in the RN. She carries an
army-pattern 75 forward and a single Vickers pom-pom (undoubtedly an RN fit)
aft.
I'd suspect that WW1 naval use of the 75 was in similar roles: lightish ships,
unable to carry a heavy (or heavy-recoil) gunm but which nonetheless could do
with something capable of throwing a bigger brick than the venerable Hotchkiss
6lbr or Maxim pom-pom. Muzzle velocity doesn't matter that much in these
circumstances: you're firing from a manually-controlled mount, with local
sighting and control only, from a small ship. Unless you're up close and
personal with your opponent your best hope is that the shell goes somewhere in
their vicinity - and in this case a larger bursting charge makes it more like;y
that a splinter hits someone or something on t'other ship. If you /are/ up
close and personal, then you want something that makes a bigger bang when it
hits t'other bugger and stops (at least some of) them shooting at you.
If nothing else, a UB boat, caught on the surface charging batteries, has
a narrower range of options facing a 'chaser with a 75 than one with but a
Maxim pom-pom.
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
I find
Navy Uniforms Insignia & Warships of Ww2
by Tantum, W H
I have British and Commonwealth Warships of WW2 by H T Lenton and J J
Colledge, published by Ian Allen in the 1960s. A rather fat book.
It's only defect is NO INDEX!
[/quote]
Make one.
;-)
[quote]
Bud[/quote] |
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