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| kenseto... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:18 am |
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| kenseto... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:17 am |
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On Oct 31, 10:37Â am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
[quote]kenseto wrote:
On Oct 30, 8:06 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
kenseto wrote:
Hey idiot I already told you that this is  wrong. A predicts that B's
time is retarded as follows:
   Delta(t_B') = gamma*Delta(t_A)
   OR
   Delta(t_B') = Delta(t_A)/gamma
  Using your equation
  Delta(t_A)/gamma = Delta(t_B') = gamma*Delta(t_A)
  Delta(t_A)/gamma = gamma*Delta(t_A)
  1/gamma = gamma
No idiot if the observed clock is running sow you use the factor of 1/
gamma and if the observed clock is running fast you use the factor of
gamma.
  gamma = 1
  And you think I'm an idiot?
Yes you are an idiot.
Ken Seto
  Given that special relativity says that ∆t = γ ∆to  and that γ has a
  value that ranges from 1 to infinity and does not have any negative
  values, it seems to me that the time interval ∆t ≥ ∆to for all
  observations. In other words the measured time interval is always
  greater (slowed) for velocities v > zero, independent of direction.
  So for a clock tick of one second, ∆to = 1 , an observer with
  relative velocity 0.866 c give a γ = 2 and
   ∆t = γ ∆to
[/quote]
Sigh wormy....this is wrong in SR.
SR says thatfor clock moving wrt the observer are running slow as
follows:
Delta(t')=Delta(to)/gamma.
IRT include the above but it also includes the situation when the
observed clock is running fast compared to the observer's clock as
follows:
Delta(t')=gamma*Delta(to)
Ken Seto
[quote]
   2 s = 2 (1 s)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -[/quote] |
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| Sam Wormley... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:37 am |
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kenseto wrote:
[quote]On Oct 30, 8:06 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
kenseto wrote:
Hey idiot I already told you that this is wrong. A predicts that B's
time is retarded as follows:
Delta(t_B') = gamma*Delta(t_A)
OR
Delta(t_B') = Delta(t_A)/gamma
Using your equation
Delta(t_A)/gamma = Delta(t_B') = gamma*Delta(t_A)
Delta(t_A)/gamma = gamma*Delta(t_A)
1/gamma = gamma
No idiot if the observed clock is running sow you use the factor of 1/
gamma and if the observed clock is running fast you use the factor of
gamma.
gamma = 1
And you think I'm an idiot?
Yes you are an idiot.
Ken Seto
[/quote]
Given that special relativity says that ∆t = γ ∆to and that γ has a
value that ranges from 1 to infinity and does not have any negative
values, it seems to me that the time interval ∆t ≥ ∆to for all
observations. In other words the measured time interval is always
greater (slowed) for velocities v > zero, independent of direction.
So for a clock tick of one second, ∆to = 1 , an observer with
relative velocity 0.866 c give a γ = 2 and
∆t = γ ∆to
2 s = 2 (1 s) |
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| kenseto... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:26 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 31, 11:35Â am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
[quote]kenseto wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:37 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
  Given that special relativity says that ∆t = γ ∆to  and that γ has a
  value that ranges from 1 to infinity and does not have any negative
  values, it seems to me that the time interval ∆t ≥ ∆to for all
  observations. In other words the measured time interval is always
  greater (slowed) for velocities v > zero, independent of direction.
  So for a clock tick of one second, ∆to = 1 , an observer with
  relative velocity 0.866 c give a γ = 2 and
   ∆t = γ ∆to
Sigh wormy....this is wrong in SR.
SR says thatfor clock moving wrt the observer are running slow as
follows:
Delta(t')=Delta(to)/gamma.
IRT include the above but it also includes the situation when the
observed clock is running fast compared to the observer's clock as
follows:
Delta(t')=gamma*Delta(to)
Ken Seto
   2 s = 2 (1 s)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
  Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
  just due to relative velocity?
[/quote]
If every clock in the universe is running slow compared to the
observer's clock then that would mean that the observer's clock is in
a preferred frame....we know that is not the case. Therefore the
observer must include the situation that his clock can run slower than
the observed clock. Learn some real physics instead of sticking your
head in the SR arsehole.
Ken Seto
[quote]
  Doppler shift can make clocks appear to be running faster.
  Differences in gravitation also produce time dilation, but
  general relativity is the applicable tool in those situations.
  Satellite clocks, such as GPS, come to mind.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -[/quote] |
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| Sam Wormley... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:35 am |
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Guest
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kenseto wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 10:37 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Given that special relativity says that ∆t = γ ∆to and that γ has a
value that ranges from 1 to infinity and does not have any negative
values, it seems to me that the time interval ∆t ≥ ∆to for all
observations. In other words the measured time interval is always
greater (slowed) for velocities v > zero, independent of direction.
So for a clock tick of one second, ∆to = 1 , an observer with
relative velocity 0.866 c give a γ = 2 and
∆t = γ ∆to
Sigh wormy....this is wrong in SR.
SR says thatfor clock moving wrt the observer are running slow as
follows:
Delta(t')=Delta(to)/gamma.
IRT include the above but it also includes the situation when the
observed clock is running fast compared to the observer's clock as
follows:
Delta(t')=gamma*Delta(to)
Ken Seto
2 s = 2 (1 s)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
just due to relative velocity?
Doppler shift can make clocks appear to be running faster.
Differences in gravitation also produce time dilation, but
general relativity is the applicable tool in those situations.
Satellite clocks, such as GPS, come to mind. |
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| Nick |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:01 am |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3545
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On Oct 31, 8:35Â am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
[quote]kenseto wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:37 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
  Given that special relativity says that ∆t = γ ∆to  and that γ has a
  value that ranges from 1 to infinity and does not have any negative
  values, it seems to me that the time interval ∆t ≥ ∆to for all
  observations. In other words the measured time interval is always
  greater (slowed) for velocities v > zero, independent of direction.
  So for a clock tick of one second, ∆to = 1 , an observer with
  relative velocity 0.866 c give a γ = 2 and
   ∆t = γ ∆to
Sigh wormy....this is wrong in SR.
SR says thatfor clock moving wrt the observer are running slow as
follows:
Delta(t')=Delta(to)/gamma.
IRT include the above but it also includes the situation when the
observed clock is running fast compared to the observer's clock as
follows:
Delta(t')=gamma*Delta(to)
Ken Seto
   2 s = 2 (1 s)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
  Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
  just due to relative velocity?
  Doppler shift can make clocks appear to be running faster.
  Differences in gravitation also produce time dilation, but
  general relativity is the applicable tool in those situations.
  Satellite clocks, such as GPS, come to mind.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
If time slows down then it must begin to slow from a starting point or
fastest time.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| Sam Wormley... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:41 pm |
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Guest
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kenseto wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 11:35 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
just due to relative velocity?
If every clock in the universe is running slow compared to the
observer's clock then that would mean that the observer's clock is in
a preferred frame....we know that is not the case.
[/quote]
Ken, that would be true for ANY observer--the other clocks in
relative motion would appear to run slower... That would be
true for almost all observer. None of them is special or
preferred.
Therefore the
[quote]observer must include the situation that his clock can run slower than
the observed clock. Learn some real physics instead of sticking your
head in the SR arsehole.
Ken Seto
Doppler shift can make clocks appear to be running faster.
Differences in gravitation also produce time dilation, but
general relativity is the applicable tool in those situations.
Satellite clocks, such as GPS, come to mind.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote] |
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| Uncle Al... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:22 pm |
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| kenseto... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:52 am |
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On Oct 31, 2:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
[quote]kenseto wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:35 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
just due to relative velocity?
If every clock in the universe is running slow compared to the
observer's clock then that would mean that the observer's clock is in
a preferred frame....we know that is not the case.
Ken, that would be true for ANY observer--the other clocks in
relative motion would appear to run slower... That would be
true for almost all observer. None of them is special or
preferred.
[/quote]
Ah....that's equivalent to that a LET observer uses the ether frame to
make predictions....that's why SR and LET have the same math....they
both use the ether frame to do calculations.. The fact that every SR
observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him are running slow means
that the every SR observer is assumed to be in a state of absolute
rest.
Ken Seto
[quote]
Therefore the
observer must include the situation that his clock can run slower than
the observed clock. Learn some real physics instead of sticking your
head in the SR arsehole.
Ken Seto
Doppler shift can make clocks appear to be running faster.
Differences in gravitation also produce time dilation, but
general relativity is the applicable tool in those situations.
Satellite clocks, such as GPS, come to mind.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -[/quote] |
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| tj Frazir... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:42 am |
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No its not c 2 Mitch.
They then separate at c no matter where you look from. Time will just
change .
Two photons in oposit directions are both at c are going c away from the
start point and c away from each other at the same time.
Just like a man that raced a photon ,,the people see him and the photon
cross the line at c in a tie BUT the man sa that photon go past him at c
and knew he lost the race.
Thats because no two points in space are at the same time. The man
inthe race has a clock that did not move wile evryone that saw the race
saw the clock tick.
http://community.webtv.net/GravityPhysics/WhaleSteamEngineA |
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| tj Frazir... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:46 am |
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| Inertial... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:38 pm |
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"kenseto" <kenseto at (no spam) erinet.com> wrote in message
news:a257e2dd-b5e5-46d5-9496-07ce692f4e24 at (no spam) g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Oct 31, 2:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
kenseto wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:35 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
just due to relative velocity?
If every clock in the universe is running slow compared to the
observer's clock then that would mean that the observer's clock is in
a preferred frame....we know that is not the case.
Ken, that would be true for ANY observer--the other clocks in
relative motion would appear to run slower... That would be
true for almost all observer. None of them is special or
preferred.
Ah....that's equivalent to that a LET observer uses the ether frame to
make predictions....that's why SR and LET have the same math....they
both use the ether frame to do calculations..
[/quote]
WRONG
[quote]The fact that every SR
observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him are running slow means
that the every SR observer is assumed to be in a state of absolute
rest.
[/quote]
WRONG
You just have no idea about SR. Go back to school and take physics again ..
but this time stay awake during the lessons. |
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| Sam Wormley... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:33 pm |
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kenseto wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Ken, that would be true for ANY observer--the other clocks in
relative motion would appear to run slower... That would be
true for almost all observer. None of them is special or
preferred.
Ah....that's equivalent to that a LET observer uses the ether frame to
make predictions....that's why SR and LET have the same math....they
both use the ether frame to do calculations.. The fact that every SR
observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him are running slow means
that the every SR observer is assumed to be in a state of absolute
rest.
Ken Seto
[/quote]
No--It just means that all motion is relative, there are no preferred
observers. Relativity predicts that any observer will measure time
dilation of all moving clocks... and guess what, Ken, that's exactly
what is observed! In Spades! |
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| kenseto... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:10 am |
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On Nov 1, 3:38 pm, "Inertial" <relativ... at (no spam) rest.com> wrote:
[quote]"kenseto" <kens... at (no spam) erinet.com> wrote in message
news:a257e2dd-b5e5-46d5-9496-07ce692f4e24 at (no spam) g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 31, 2:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
kenseto wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:35 am, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Ken, where in the real world are clock observed to run fast,
just due to relative velocity?
If every clock in the universe is running slow compared to the
observer's clock then that would mean that the observer's clock is in
a preferred frame....we know that is not the case.
Ken, that would be true for ANY observer--the other clocks in
relative motion would appear to run slower... That would be
true for almost all observer. None of them is special or
preferred.
Ah....that's equivalent to that a LET observer uses the ether frame to
make predictions....that's why SR and LET have the same math....they
both use the ether frame to do calculations..
WRONG
The fact that every SR
observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him are running slow means
that the every SR observer is assumed to be in a state of absolute
rest.
WRONG
You just have no idea about SR. Go back to school and take physics again ...
but this time stay awake during the lessons.
[/quote]
Hey idiot ....it is not wrong. SR says that all observer are
equaivalent including the ether frame observer. So every SR observer
selected the ether frame to do predictions and calculations....the
reason is that it is the simplest frame to do calculations because all
the clocks in the universe are running slow compared to the ether
frame clock and all the rods in the universe are contraction compared
to the ether frame rod.
LET acknowledges that the ether frame is used to do calculations and
that's why SR and LET have the same math.
Ken Seto |
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| kenseto... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:17 am |
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On Nov 1, 4:33 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
[quote]kenseto wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:41 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml... at (no spam) mchsi.com> wrote:
Ken, that would be true for ANY observer--the other clocks in
relative motion would appear to run slower... That would be
true for almost all observer. None of them is special or
preferred.
Ah....that's equivalent to that a LET observer uses the ether frame to
make predictions....that's why SR and LET have the same math....they
both use the ether frame to do calculations.. The fact that every SR
observer claims that all clocks moving wrt him are running slow means
that the every SR observer is assumed to be in a state of absolute
rest.
Ken Seto
No--It just means that all motion is relative, there are no preferred
observers. Relativity predicts that any observer will measure time
dilation of all moving clocks... and guess what, Ken, that's exactly
what is observed! In Spades!
[/quote]
No wormy...all relative motions are derived from individual motion.
For example if you change your state of individual motion by
acceleration you will have changed all the observed relative motions
in the universe.
There is no time dilation....there is a clock second contains a
different amount of absolute time in different frames (different
states of absolute motion). Also there is no physical length
contraction. There is: a meter stick has different light path length
in different frames (different states of absolute motion).
Ken Seto |
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