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| ChrisQ... |
 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:23 am |
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Bill Sloman wrote:
[quote]Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson strikes again. I'm actually a
useful odd-jobs man, and do carpentry, plumbing, and the odd bit of
household wiring. I am left-handed, and do understand differential
screws.
[/quote]
You know I don't take sides  , but I agree, multidisciplinary skills
are very usefull and are in decline as everything gets more specialised.
I think it's partly a generational thing as the immediate post ww2
generation had to make do and mend everything. I still do all the
electrical, radio, tv, carpentry and even building work around the house
and that's besides interests in mechanical engineering and a core skill
set of software engineering coming from an electronics background. It's
surprising how usefull it can be in all sorts of ways.
I don't think you can generalise about phd's either. I've met some who
knew nothing outside their specialist field, head in the clouds and
others who were some of the most switched on people i've ever met. Some
of the EE graduates i've worked with in the past could hardly solder two
wires together and had no interest at all in the job outside work. I
find that depressing, as to be really good at anything, you need to have
a passion for the subject and have a very inquisitive mind. The lack of
scientific curiosity and the general dumbing down of everything will be
the undoing of our civilisation. Nearly everything we come into contact
with on a daily basis depends on science or engineering in some way...
Regards,
Chris |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:29 pm |
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:48:20 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever at (no spam) InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:09:57 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
while you're mopping shit up.
As it relates to this forum, you are absolutely correct.
[/quote]
Right, Dimmie. I'm not AlwaysWrong. You are.
[quote]None of it is mine, however. I guess that you are immune to the stench.
[/quote]
You are shit, DimBulb. Unfortunately, there isn't a mop big enough. |
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| Charlie E.... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:54 pm |
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:27:34 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:23:05 -0800, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
So skip the basics and take advanced courses.
Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
[/quote]
Well, twenty years ago (Wow! how time flies!) when I decided to go
back to school and get my EE degree, I learned a lot of interesting
lessons.
While I had been a hobbiest since I was a kid, my bachelors degree was
in psychology. I know that I didn't know a lot of the math and such,
so went back to get a second bachelors in EE. I moved from California
to New Mexico just to get into a program, and in my first class
learned my first lesson.
You don't need a bachelors in EE to get a Masters in EE.
Because of that lesson, I inquired back in California, and a year
later started at UC Santa Barbara in the Masters program.
I started taking a lot of the basic circuits and control theory
classes, and found myself on academic probation. In the masters
program, you need to keep a 3.0 gpa, but in those basic theory
classes, they graded to a 2.0 average. These were also the 'weed'
classes, where they TRIED to get students to fail, by heaping so much
make work on them that they would be overwhelmed. My problem - I
didn't do all the homework and make it look spiffy and nice, I just
did what I needed to learn the subject. I had A's and B's on all the
tests. In my second semester, the T.A.s taught me the second lesson:
When there is a bachelor level course, and a master's level course,
take the Master's level course.
In the BS course, they go into excruciating detail on the basics, as
well as heaping loads of meaningless homework on the poor students. In
the Master's class, they mention the important aspects of the basics
in teh first couple of weeks, and then get right to business. The
Master's courses also tended to be more real world, with actual
applications and circuits. If you could keep up, they were a lot more
fun. they also graded to a B curve, not a C curve!
The final lesson was, choose your professors carefully. I took
classes from many professors, but learned after almost flunking the
second class in a row from one professor, that we were not on the same
page. I had the same material from two different professors, and from
him it always sounded like greek, while I grok'd the material
instantly from the other. Sometimes, the learning chemistry is just
not there.
Charlie |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:59 pm |
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On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:54:20 -0800, Charlie E. <edmondson at (no spam) ieee.org>
wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:27:34 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:23:05 -0800, John Larkin
jjSNIPlarkin at (no spam) highTHISlandtechnology.com> wrote:
So skip the basics and take advanced courses.
Advanced courses? What advanced courses?
Well, twenty years ago (Wow! how time flies!) when I decided to go
back to school and get my EE degree, I learned a lot of interesting
lessons.
[/quote]
Make that thirty-five. ;-)
[quote]While I had been a hobbiest since I was a kid, my bachelors degree was
in psychology. I know that I didn't know a lot of the math and such,
so went back to get a second bachelors in EE. I moved from California
to New Mexico just to get into a program, and in my first class
learned my first lesson.
You don't need a bachelors in EE to get a Masters in EE.
[/quote]
Nope. You should have shot your advisor.
[quote]Because of that lesson, I inquired back in California, and a year
later started at UC Santa Barbara in the Masters program.
I started taking a lot of the basic circuits and control theory
classes, and found myself on academic probation. In the masters
program, you need to keep a 3.0 gpa, but in those basic theory
classes, they graded to a 2.0 average. These were also the 'weed'
classes, where they TRIED to get students to fail, by heaping so much
make work on them that they would be overwhelmed. My problem - I
didn't do all the homework and make it look spiffy and nice, I just
did what I needed to learn the subject. I had A's and B's on all the
tests. In my second semester, the T.A.s taught me the second lesson:
[/quote]
All of our "flunk out" courses were in the other disciplines. In
particular, the years I was there it was Chemistry, Math, and the
third semester of Physics (where they even admitted they wanted 20% to
fail). In previous years the "flunk out" courses were Theoretical and
Applied Mechanics (YOY do EEs need to learn how to crush concrete?),
Thermodynamics, Statics, and Dynamics, all of which had been dropped
as requirements by the time I graduated.
[quote]When there is a bachelor level course, and a master's level course,
take the Master's level course.
[/quote]
Not having been in the graduate college, I couldn't take them but that
was well known by all, at the time. Actually, our EE department pretty
much graded on the 'B' (4.0 in our case) curve. By the time the
Junior year rolled around they'd gotten rid of enough.
[quote]In the BS course, they go into excruciating detail on the basics, as
well as heaping loads of meaningless homework on the poor students. In
the Master's class, they mention the important aspects of the basics
in teh first couple of weeks, and then get right to business. The
Master's courses also tended to be more real world, with actual
applications and circuits. If you could keep up, they were a lot more
fun. they also graded to a B curve, not a C curve!
[/quote]
I never turned in homework.
[quote]The final lesson was, choose your professors carefully. I took
classes from many professors, but learned after almost flunking the
second class in a row from one professor, that we were not on the same
page. I had the same material from two different professors, and from
him it always sounded like greek, while I grok'd the material
instantly from the other. Sometimes, the learning chemistry is just
not there.
[/quote]
I knew all about that from day one. I worked for the EE department as
a lab technician (the only bene of being an EE prof's kid) so was able
to be first in line for the EE sections I wanted. The first time I
took the semiconductor physics course I dropped it before I could fail
it. My advisor (Ben Streetman, who wrote the book) wasn't pleased
because it was a required course, but I forced him to sign the
paperwork. The next semester I took it again from him and had no
trouble with the course, at all. He was known as a tougher grader
too, but it's far easier to get a grade if you have a clue what's
going on, too.  The first prof was an old geezer (one of my
father's buds, in fact) just waiting to retire. What a total loss. |
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| Rich Grise... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:34 pm |
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:05:45 -0700, RST Engineering - JIm wrote:
[quote]"Ian Bell" <ruffrecords at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
Dunno. I can only tell you that I offer my students a two letter grade
bonus if they achieve a General ham license during the semester and in
thirty years, not one taker.
(or if already a General, Extra.)
[/quote]
Does the General still include 13 WPM Morse code? That was the stopper
for me.
Thanks,
Rich |
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| Dave Platt... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:20 pm |
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Guest
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In article <pan.2009.11.02.18.34.07.70303 at (no spam) example.net>,
Rich Grise <richgrise at (no spam) example.net> wrote:
[quote]Dunno. I can only tell you that I offer my students a two letter grade
bonus if they achieve a General ham license during the semester and in
thirty years, not one taker.
(or if already a General, Extra.)
Does the General still include 13 WPM Morse code? That was the stopper
for me.
[/quote]
There is no longer any Morse code requirement, for any amateur radio
license class. It was 5 WPM (for both General and Extra) up until
around 18 months ago, and was entirely eliminated at that time.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt at (no spam) radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
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| Jamie... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:14 pm |
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Rich Grise wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:05:45 -0700, RST Engineering - JIm wrote:
"Ian Bell" <ruffrecords at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
Is it me or was it only 'in the old days' that people went into
electronics (.i.e. got educated in it at college level) because they
were already hooked on it and had built a bunch of stuff? A friend and I
were selling crystal radios at primary school before we were eleven
years old. By the time I was 18 and went to university I had read every
electronics book in the city library, passed the Radio Amateurs Exam,
and built dozens of bits of kit. Don't kids do that any more?
Dunno. I can only tell you that I offer my students a two letter grade
bonus if they achieve a General ham license during the semester and in
thirty years, not one taker.
(or if already a General, Extra.)
Does the General still include 13 WPM Morse code? That was the stopper
for me.
Thanks,
Rich
There is no longer a (CW) code requirement.[/quote]
But with practice, it don't take me long to get back
to 30 WPM.. |
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| Greegor... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:48 pm |
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On Nov 5, 12:41 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
raveninghorde at (no spam) invalid> wrote:
One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job.
[/quote]
You think you're smarter than a cadre of over 100 EE's?
You also think you're modest, right? |
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| JosephKK... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:41 am |
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
<raveninghorde at (no spam) invalid> wrote:
[quote]One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
[/quote]
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job. |
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| JosephKK... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:30 am |
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Guest
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:23:41 -0500, Les Cargill
<lcargill99 at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]ChrisQ wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
I joined IEEE in 1962. Quit around 1968 when they made the
Proceedings extra cost.
Rejoined 5 years ago when I could get the old farts rate ;-)
Still couldn't get papers from outside my member groups.
Inquired about some kind of senior membership that would allow
reasonable-cost access to the "digital" libraries.
Confiscatory fees.
So I let my IEEE membership lapse.
Worthless bunch of shit-heads.
I just object to any self serving organisation that expects me to feel
gratefull for the high prices they are charging me.
Member organisations should be there to serve the members. Oherwise,
what is the point ?...
Regards,
Chris
Organizations that perpetuate themselves outlast those that don't.
[/quote]
However, raping your practitioner members (academic members are
normally paid for by the institution they work for) with excessive
fees is way counterproductive in perpetuating them selves as a
practice oriented organization. Oops my bad, the IEEE is not such any
more. |
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| Tim Williams... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:25 am |
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On Nov 5, 2:48 am, Greegor <greego... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 12:41 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
raveninghorde at (no spam) invalid> wrote:
One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job.
You think you're smarter than a cadre of over 100 EE's?
You also think you're modest, right?
[/quote]
Well, maybe smarter than half. :^)
BTW, is the smartness comparison relative to each individual in the
group, or the group as a whole? 'Cuz if it's the latter case, then
you should really talk to management instead...
Tim |
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| Jim Thompson... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:01 pm |
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:50:14 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul at (no spam) hovnanian.com> wrote:
[quote]Greegor wrote:
On Nov 5, 12:41 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
raveninghorde at (no spam) invalid> wrote:
One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job.
You think you're smarter than a cadre of over 100 EE's?
If he works for a company* that figures it can get the same quality work
out of 100 people with IQs of 75 as 50 people with IQs of 150, maybe he
is.
[snip worthless joke][/quote]
Hovnanian thinks the world revolves around his kind of "cadre". It
doesn't... his "cadre" are the losers of this world... Hovnanian is
the leader of the band
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Obama says, "I AM NOT a cry baby, Fox REALLY IS out to get me!" |
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| Paul Hovnanian P.E.... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:50 pm |
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Guest
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Greegor wrote:
[quote]
On Nov 5, 12:41 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
raveninghorde at (no spam) invalid> wrote:
One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job.
You think you're smarter than a cadre of over 100 EE's?
[/quote]
If he works for a company* that figures it can get the same quality work
out of 100 people with IQs of 75 as 50 people with IQs of 150, maybe he
is.
*Old joke at Boeing: Someone told a manager it took 9 women-months to
produce a baby. So he asked 9 women to get the job done in one month.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul at (no spam) Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Every time Windows crashes, a devil gets his horns. |
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| Rich the Philosophizer... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:44 pm |
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:50:14 -0800, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
[quote]
*Old joke at Boeing: Someone told a manager it took 9 women-months to
produce a baby. So he asked 9 women to get the job done in one month.
[/quote]
The first time I heard this it was about throwing programmers at a
software task. ("You can't get a baby in a month by getting nine ladies
pregnant!")
If it takes a man 150 hours to assemble a garage, can 150 men assemble a
garage in an hour? ;-)
CHeers!
Rich |
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| JosephKK... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:21 pm |
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:48:51 -0800 (PST), Greegor <greegor47 at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 12:41 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:09:20 +0000, Raveninghorde
raveninghorde at (no spam) invalid> wrote:
One of my chaps is off to do his PhD, which means he will know a lot
about nothing.
He asked me the other day if reversing the 24V AC power supply to a
board had caused damage to an elctrolytic capacitor. I don't think
you have to know the circuit to answer the question.
Talk about not understanding what he knows.
How would you like working with an entire cadre (over 100) of EEs
about that smart? That is why i have a love/hate relationship with my
job.
You think you're smarter than a cadre of over 100 EE's?
[/quote]
Yes, come meet them. See how many can still use Ohms law, and how
many recognize Shannon's law.
[quote]You also think you're modest, right?
[/quote]
Not particularly, nor do i think i am dishonest. Come try working
with the characters i have to work with. If you volunteer there is a
one year opening in Sacramento. |
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