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| Henry Wilson DSc... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:38 pm |
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Guest
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Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds. How can that happen?
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer.. |
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| Bruce Richmond... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:38 pm |
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On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
[quote]Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds. How can that happen?
[/quote]
You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time
coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate
system and the problem goes away.
[quote]Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..[/quote] |
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| Inertial... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:00 pm |
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"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:2c9he5pgesj73fcg66nndlpbrmal5s2iv2 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
The only one feeling embarrassment should be you
Lets all have a look at how Henry is going to embarrass himself this time
and show once again he doesn't understand the physics he claims to ...
[quote]Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
[/quote]
Do you mean physically connected by some material object .. like a being on
a train? (SR loves trains)
[quote]O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
[/quote]
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O1 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S1 and O1
[quote]Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
[/quote]
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O2 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S2 and O2
[quote]In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
[/quote]
In the frame of S2 and O2, but not in the frame of S1 and O1.
[quote]However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
[/quote]
In the frame of S1 and O1, but not in the frame of S2 and O2.
The closing speed between light and an object (in the objects rest frame) is
always c
Similarly the separating speed between light and its source (in the source's
rest frame) is always c
[quote]So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds.
[/quote]
Only one per frame .. you are talking about two different observers
calculating the closing speed, as well as two different rays of light.
Of course, there are an infinite number of closing speeds between light and
some given object. One speed in each frame of reference
[quote]How can that happen?
[/quote]
Because light always has a speed of c in every frame of reference .. but the
object O2 has different speeds in each frame of reference. As closing speed
is just a vector addition/subtraction, that means you'll get a different
closing speed in each frame.
If you were as educated as you pretend to be, you'd know all this and not
advertise your ignorance as you continue to do. |
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| xxein... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:10 pm |
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On Oct 28, 6:34 pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3... at (no spam) my-deja.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds. How can that happen?
You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time
coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate
system and the problem goes away.
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
xxein: Yeah but... Why should a moving observer have the same
timerate as another? We've already proven that false. And the
coordinates change accordingly. What it boils down to is the need for
a velocity addition formula. But that is a mathematic without a shred
of the physic for how it occurs.
Nobody seems to be able to find the physical cause for this except
me. I learned to deal with the physic a long time ago. No pansy-ass
theories that depend on a subjective observation belong to
understanding the physic itself. They can fortify a math/physics but
destroy the real essence of the physic.
Everyone would like me to prove that, wouldn't they? Well, I could
except for the prior belief in almost everything that has been
accepted as a physics. I would have to present a new "Principia". I
don't have the skill or patience to do that unless someone of logic
and writing ability would pick my brain to see the real physical
correspondence.
Until then, I remain very confident in my knowledge of the physic.
There are hidden subtleties that were never accounted for in the
present physics (of any/all stripes). Despite any of my past posts
that were wrong, seemed to be wrong, misunderstood or were not
understood, there is a physical logic that I understand to underlie
it. I can goof up in posts sometimes depending upon beer consumption
and what I respond to. But the underlying physic is well understood
by me (until quantum effects). But, hey, what do they have to say
about gravity? Is there a physical cause to be conscriped in anything
besides an observer math?
I was not afraid to guess beyond the off-the-shelf physics. I
questioned every source and belief of how the physics works. I know
what physics looks like. But I had to know why it looks like that. I
had a 10 yr. period of extreme logic that I can never duplicate again
(don't even ask). I found the general substance (esp. gravity) and it
explains why we observe as we do to think we have made a physics that
substitues for the real understanding of the physic.
It was gravity that threw all my earlier logic into the trash. It had
to be accounted for in the same manner of physical logic. I
succeeded. Nobody will get to know this, of course, because we have a
MATH PHYSICS that seems adequate like in any balewire needed to make
something work again for new problems or discovery. It is really
quite adequate in the subjective sense.
Still not in the physical sense though. I hope your sense of logic
supercedes what you seem willing to believe for adequacy. I'm not
picking on you. I'm just making a statement. And with that, I wish
you well. |
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| rotchm... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:31 pm |
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On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
[quote]Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
[/quote]
As measured by who? ( relative to which frame)?
[quote]Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
[/quote]
Wrt which observer ( frame)?
[quote]In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
[/quote]
The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame?
Oh, you mean the closing speed of the light from S2 and O2 wrt O2's
frame. Ok, in that case its ( c - 0) wrt O2 = c.
[quote]However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
[/quote]
The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? You are
unclear here.
Anser that and you should find your answer/error. |
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| rotchm... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:00 pm |
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On Oct 28, 11:48 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
[quote]On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:31:34 -0700 (PDT), rotchm <rot... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
As measured by who? ( relative to which frame)?
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
Wrt which observer ( frame)?
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame?
Oh, you mean the closing speed of the light from S2 and O2 wrt O2's
frame. Ok, in that case its ( c - 0) wrt O2 = c.
great, your brain cell finally fired...
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
The closing speed of which two things and wrt which frame? You are
unclear here.
Anser that and you should find your answer/error.
Read the other messages and stop stalling for time.....
[/quote]
Dont be a coward by brushing off the question to other discussions.
Answer it. |
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| Henry Wilson DSc... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:54 pm |
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On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Richmond <bsr3997 at (no spam) my-deja.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds. How can that happen?
You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time
coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate
system and the problem goes away.
[/quote]
Hardly.
The two beams have different closing speeds as calculated by the same observer.
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer.. |
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| Henry Wilson DSc... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:04 pm |
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:00:40 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com> wrote:
[quote]"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:2c9he5pgesj73fcg66nndlpbrmal5s2iv2 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
The only one feeling embarrassment should be you
Lets all have a look at how Henry is going to embarrass himself this time
and show once again he doesn't understand the physics he claims to ...
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
Do you mean physically connected by some material object .. like a being on
a train? (SR loves trains)
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O1 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S1 and O1
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O2 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S2 and O2
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
In the frame of S2 and O2, but not in the frame of S1 and O1.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
In the frame of S1 and O1, but not in the frame of S2 and O2.
[/quote]
Yes we know that .....what about in the frame of a third observer?
[quote]
The closing speed between light and an object (in the objects rest frame) is
always c
Similarly the separating speed between light and its source (in the source's
rest frame) is always c
[/quote]
I just told you that.
[quote]So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds.
Only one per frame .. you are talking about two different observers
calculating the closing speed, as well as two different rays of light.
[/quote]
Hey moron, the third observer sees two light rays closing on S2 at different
speeds.
[quote]Of course, there are an infinite number of closing speeds between light and
some given object. One speed in each frame of reference
[/quote]
hey moron, I'll tell you something else.
There is an infinite number of relative speeds that light can possess.
[quote]How can that happen?
Because light always has a speed of c in every frame of reference .. but the
object O2 has different speeds in each frame of reference. As closing speed
is just a vector addition/subtraction, that means you'll get a different
closing speed in each frame.
[/quote]
Hey moron, what about the third observer?
How can he determine that two rays can have different approach speeds towards
the same object?
[quote]If you were as educated as you pretend to be, you'd know all this and not
advertise your ignorance as you continue to do.
[/quote]
If you weren't such a moron, you would understand the question and realise how
stupid your answers sound..
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer.. |
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| Inertial... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:15 pm |
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"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:4sphe5568i08tb619aug027tn20kom4m2j at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Richmond
bsr3997 at (no spam) my-deja.com
wrote:
On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2
at
different speeds. How can that happen?
You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time
coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate
system and the problem goes away.
Hardly.
The two beams have different closing speeds as calculated by the same
observer.
[/quote]
Wrong. you stated closing speed form two different observers .. S1 and S2
If you only consider one observer, you only get one closing speed for a
given ray of light (and rays of light with the same direction wrt the
object) and any given object. |
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| waldofj... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:21 pm |
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On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
[quote]Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2 at
different speeds. How can that happen?
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..
[/quote]
this should be reworded a bit.
from s1's point of view, light will be closing on 01 at c regardless
of the source. light coming from the right will be closing on 02 at c
- v and light coming from the left will be closing on 02 at c + v
from s2's point of view, light will be closing on 02 at c regardless
of the source. light coming from the right will be closing on 01 at c
+ v and light coming from the left will be closing on 01 at c - v
you ask how can this be but you're asking the wrong question. The real
question is how can the principle of the constancy of the speed of
light (PCSL) be right? because it is the PCSL that leads directly to
above result (i.e. if the PCSL is true then the above result is true).
Of course it is the LT that shows how it works and the main concept
that makes it work is the relativity of simultaneity.
I don't know if the PCSL is correct but I will say this, it's easier
for me to swallow than the rather absurd and contradictory properties
the aether has to have for that concept to work. |
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| Inertial... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:28 pm |
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Guest
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"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:auphe5pqkddf46qh5anph5sv8pcdeog4ml at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:00:40 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com
wrote:
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:2c9he5pgesj73fcg66nndlpbrmal5s2iv2 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
The only one feeling embarrassment should be you
Lets all have a look at how Henry is going to embarrass himself this time
and show once again he doesn't understand the physics he claims to ...
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
Do you mean physically connected by some material object .. like a being
on
a train? (SR loves trains)
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O1 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S1 and O1
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O2 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S2 and O2
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
In the frame of S2 and O2, but not in the frame of S1 and O1.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
In the frame of S1 and O1, but not in the frame of S2 and O2.
Yes we know that .....what about in the frame of a third observer?
[/quote]
What third observer .. there was no third observer in your example. But if
you want to nominate one, feel free., It doesn't introduce and problem or
contradiction.
[quote]The closing speed between light and an object (in the objects rest frame)
is
always c
Similarly the separating speed between light and its source (in the
source's
rest frame) is always c
I just told you that.
[/quote]
Good.. Just making sure, as you have problems in understanding things
related to SR .. either that or you lie a lot. Maybe both.
[quote]So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2
at
different speeds.
Only one per frame .. you are talking about two different observers
calculating the closing speed, as well as two different rays of light.
Hey moron, the third observer
[/quote]
What third observer? Maybe you should describe this third observer and how
he is moving wrt O1 and O2 (the only observers you mentioned in your
problem)
[quote]sees two light rays closing on S2 at different
speeds.
[/quote]
Nope .. given your diagram no observer see that. Because the light from S1
and S2 are travelling in the same directions wrt O2. if the light was from
different directions, then you could different closing speeds. Oh.. and I
think you meant to say 'O2' there
[quote]Of course, there are an infinite number of closing speeds between light
and
some given object. One speed in each frame of reference
hey moron, I'll tell you something else.
[/quote]
Should be amusing
[quote]There is an infinite number of relative speeds that light can possess.
[/quote]
Nope. Not in SR (which is the context in which you posed the problem)
[quote]How can that happen?
Because light always has a speed of c in every frame of reference .. but
the
object O2 has different speeds in each frame of reference. As closing
speed
is just a vector addition/subtraction, that means you'll get a different
closing speed in each frame.
Hey moron, what about the third observer?
[/quote]
What third observer? Nominate one.
[quote]How can he determine that two rays can have different approach speeds
towards
the same object?
[/quote]
Why not .. the light has a speed of c, but not the same velocity (ie it can
have different directions). So if light is approaching an object from
opposite directions, and some third observer sees that object as having a
speed v (in that same direction as one of the rays of light) then the two
separating speeds will be c+v and c-v. With other directions of light wrt
the moving object, the observer will measure different closing speeds.
In your case, with the rays from S1 and S2 travelling in the same direction
wrt O2, every third observer will measure the same closing speed between O2
and both rays.
[quote]If you were as educated as you pretend to be, you'd know all this and not
advertise your ignorance as you continue to do.
If you weren't such a moron,
[/quote]
I'm not
[quote]you would understand the question
[/quote]
I do .. you don't understand your own question .. and now you see that your
original question was not what you thought, you'd changing it by introducing
some third observer .. but even that doesn't salvage your mistake.
[quote]and realise how
stupid your answers sound..
[/quote]
That you think the correct answers are stupid shows your own ignorance.
Thanks for continuing to advertise that ignorance of yours .. not that we
needed any further proof of it. |
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| Henry Wilson DSc... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:40 pm |
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:28:39 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com> wrote:
[quote]
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:auphe5pqkddf46qh5anph5sv8pcdeog4ml at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:00:40 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com
wrote:
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:2c9he5pgesj73fcg66nndlpbrmal5s2iv2 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
The only one feeling embarrassment should be you
Lets all have a look at how Henry is going to embarrass himself this time
and show once again he doesn't understand the physics he claims to ...
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
Do you mean physically connected by some material object .. like a being
on
a train? (SR loves trains)
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O1 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S1 and O1
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O2 is frame dependent. It
is only c in the frame of S2 and O2
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
In the frame of S2 and O2, but not in the frame of S1 and O1.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
What third observer? Maybe you should describe this third observer and how
he is moving wrt O1 and O2 (the only observers you mentioned in your
problem)
[/quote]
ANY third observer, moron.
[quote]sees two light rays closing on S2 at different
speeds.
Nope .. given your diagram no observer see that. Because the light from S1
and S2 are travelling in the same directions wrt O2. if the light was from
different directions, then you could different closing speeds. Oh.. and I
think you meant to say 'O2' there
Of course, there are an infinite number of closing speeds between light
and
some given object. One speed in each frame of reference
hey moron, I'll tell you something else.
Should be amusing
There is an infinite number of relative speeds that light can possess.
Nope. Not in SR (which is the context in which you posed the problem)
How can that happen?
Because light always has a speed of c in every frame of reference .. but
the
object O2 has different speeds in each frame of reference. As closing
speed
is just a vector addition/subtraction, that means you'll get a different
closing speed in each frame.
Hey moron, what about the third observer?
What third observer? Nominate one.
How can he determine that two rays can have different approach speeds
towards
the same object?
Why not .. the light has a speed of c, but not the same velocity (ie it can
have different directions). So if light is approaching an object from
opposite directions, and some third observer sees that object as having a
speed v (in that same direction as one of the rays of light) then the two
separating speeds will be c+v and c-v. With other directions of light wrt
the moving object, the observer will measure different closing speeds.
In your case, with the rays from S1 and S2 travelling in the same direction
wrt O2, every third observer will measure the same closing speed between O2
and both rays.
[/quote]
Hey moron, you have often said yourself that a third observer will determine a
closing speed of c-v for S1's light on O2.
[quote]If you were as educated as you pretend to be, you'd know all this and not
advertise your ignorance as you continue to do.
If you weren't such a moron,
I'm not
you would understand the question
I do .. you don't understand your own question .. and now you see that your
original question was not what you thought, you'd changing it by introducing
some third observer .. but even that doesn't salvage your mistake.
[/quote]
You can introduce as many bloody observers as I like.
Each will determine different closing speeds for the two rays on O2.
[quote]and realise how
stupid your answers sound..
That you think the correct answers are stupid shows your own ignorance.
Thanks for continuing to advertise that ignorance of yours .. not that we
needed any further proof of it.
[/quote]
Wake up moron. Your 'closing speed' of light is its REAL speed.
[quote]
[/quote]
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer.. |
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| Henry Wilson DSc... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:42 pm |
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Guest
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:15:44 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com> wrote:
[quote]
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:4sphe5568i08tb619aug027tn20kom4m2j at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Richmond
bsr3997 at (no spam) my-deja.com
wrote:
On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2
at
different speeds. How can that happen?
You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time
coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate
system and the problem goes away.
Hardly.
The two beams have different closing speeds as calculated by the same
observer.
Wrong. you stated closing speed form two different observers .. S1 and S2
[/quote]
Hey moron, can't youn read properly?
[quote]
If you only consider one observer, you only get one closing speed for a
given ray of light (and rays of light with the same direction wrt the
object) and any given object.
[/quote]
Who said.
YOU have often stated that closing speeds don't have to equal c.
Henry Wilson...www.scisite.info/index.htm
Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer.. |
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| Inertial... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:08 pm |
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Guest
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"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:8bshe5t6u7u8ncpkfrcqikl7eken33vvql at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:28:39 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com
wrote:
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:auphe5pqkddf46qh5anph5sv8pcdeog4ml at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:00:40 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com
wrote:
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:2c9he5pgesj73fcg66nndlpbrmal5s2iv2 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
The only one feeling embarrassment should be you
Lets all have a look at how Henry is going to embarrass himself this
time
and show once again he doesn't understand the physics he claims to ...
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
Do you mean physically connected by some material object .. like a being
on
a train? (SR loves trains)
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O1 is frame dependent.
It
is only c in the frame of S1 and O1
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
Yes .. although the closing speed between light O2 is frame dependent.
It
is only c in the frame of S2 and O2
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
In the frame of S2 and O2, but not in the frame of S1 and O1.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
What third observer? Maybe you should describe this third observer and
how
he is moving wrt O1 and O2 (the only observers you mentioned in your
problem)
ANY third observer, moron.
[/quote]
I described what any third observer would observe already. And have done so
again.
[quote]sees two light rays closing on S2 at different
speeds.
Nope .. given your diagram no observer see that. Because the light from
S1
and S2 are travelling in the same directions wrt O2. if the light was
from
different directions, then you could different closing speeds. Oh.. and I
think you meant to say 'O2' there
Of course, there are an infinite number of closing speeds between light
and
some given object. One speed in each frame of reference
hey moron, I'll tell you something else.
Should be amusing
There is an infinite number of relative speeds that light can possess.
Nope. Not in SR (which is the context in which you posed the problem)
How can that happen?
Because light always has a speed of c in every frame of reference .. but
the
object O2 has different speeds in each frame of reference. As closing
speed
is just a vector addition/subtraction, that means you'll get a different
closing speed in each frame.
Hey moron, what about the third observer?
What third observer? Nominate one.
How can he determine that two rays can have different approach speeds
towards
the same object?
Why not .. the light has a speed of c, but not the same velocity (ie it
can
have different directions). So if light is approaching an object from
opposite directions, and some third observer sees that object as having a
speed v (in that same direction as one of the rays of light) then the two
separating speeds will be c+v and c-v. With other directions of light
wrt
the moving object, the observer will measure different closing speeds.
In your case, with the rays from S1 and S2 travelling in the same
direction
wrt O2, every third observer will measure the same closing speed between
O2
and both rays.
Hey moron, you have often said yourself that a third observer will
determine a
closing speed of c-v for S1's light on O2.
[/quote]
Yeup. Exactly. Every observer finds the same closing speed between O2 and
the light from S1 and S2. That speed will be c-v, where v is the speed of
O2 relative to the observer. So each observer will have a different value
for that closing speed.
[quote]If you were as educated as you pretend to be, you'd know all this and
not
advertise your ignorance as you continue to do.
If you weren't such a moron,
I'm not
you would understand the question
I do .. you don't understand your own question .. and now you see that
your
original question was not what you thought, you'd changing it by
introducing
some third observer .. but even that doesn't salvage your mistake.
You can introduce as many bloody observers as I like.
[/quote]
Fine .. and they will all find the closing speeds between the light from S1
and O2 and the light from S2 and O2 are the same
[quote]Each will determine different closing speeds for the two rays on O2.
[/quote]
The closing speed of light from S1 and O2 will be the same as the closing
speed of light from S2 and O2 for all observers; of course, each different
observer will have a different value for what that closing speed is, because
O2 travels at different speeds for them.
[quote]and realise how
stupid your answers sound..
That you think the correct answers are stupid shows your own ignorance.
Thanks for continuing to advertise that ignorance of yours .. not that we
needed any further proof of it.
Wake up moron. Your 'closing speed' of light is its REAL speed.
[/quote]
No .. its not. The real speed of anything in a given frame is the ratio of
how far it travels in that frame to how long it takes to travel it. It has
nothing to do with any other object(s) that may be moving in that frame.
Do you really want to keep going with this an advertise your ignorance
further? It is very funny. |
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| Inertial... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:09 pm |
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Guest
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"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:7lshe5h0v4l49mif30lcvvrhmlrsc3lfjk at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:15:44 +1100, "Inertial" <relatively at (no spam) rest.com
wrote:
"Henry Wilson DSc." <HW at (no spam) ..> wrote in message
news:4sphe5568i08tb619aug027tn20kom4m2j at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Richmond
bsr3997 at (no spam) my-deja.com
wrote:
On Oct 28, 4:38 pm, HW at (no spam) ..(Henry Wilson DSc). wrote:
Consider two light sources and two observers as shown below. S1 is
connected to
O1 and S2 is connected to O2. O2 is moving at v relative to O1.
O1----------------------------------------------------S1
v<- O2---------------------------------------S2
According to SR,
light from S1 moves at c towards O1.
Light from S2 moves at c towards O2.
In other words, the CLOSING SPEED of light from S2 on O2 is c.
However the CLOSING SPEED of light from S1 on O2 is c-v.
So we have a situation in which two separate rays of light CLOSE ON O2
at
different speeds. How can that happen?
You are trying to make measurements in both frames using the time
coordinates from just one system. Give each frame its own coordinate
system and the problem goes away.
Hardly.
The two beams have different closing speeds as calculated by the same
observer.
Wrong. you stated closing speed form two different observers .. S1 and S2
Hey moron, can't youn read properly?
[/quote]
Yes .. just fine thanks.
[quote]If you only consider one observer, you only get one closing speed for a
given ray of light (and rays of light with the same direction wrt the
object) and any given object.
Who said.
[/quote]
SR
[quote]YOU have often stated that closing speeds don't have to equal c.
[/quote]
I didn't say they did
Come on .. you're appearing more stupid with each post .. keep 'em coming. |
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