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| Chris L Peterson... |
 Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:57 pm |
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:38:49 -0400, Davoud <star at (no spam) sky.net> wrote:
[quote]I'm trying to think of a society that has been advanced by
regressives/conservatives.
[/quote]
The Kzin, maybe. That didn't work out too well for them once they
encountered cultures just a little more clever.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com |
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| David Staup... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:28 pm |
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp at (no spam) alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:rceke5tjunj3763102fmd4vgh23d6c0le4 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:38:49 -0400, Davoud <star at (no spam) sky.net> wrote:
I'm trying to think of a society that has been advanced by
regressives/conservatives.
The Kzin, maybe. That didn't work out too well for them once they
encountered cultures just a little more clever.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
[/quote]
ah and where would those pupeteers be without speaker to animals and louis
wo...those who would stick there heads in the sand always need the help..not
the other way around |
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| Chris L Peterson... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:51 pm |
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On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:28:50 -0500, "David Staup" <dstaup at (no spam) sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
[quote]ah and where would those pupeteers be without speaker to animals and louis
wo...those who would stick there heads in the sand always need the help..not
the other way around
[/quote]
Actually, they needed one of their own- who was insane. It was him/her
who chose Speaker and Louis, and Speaker had been bred for docility. The
Kzin were only going to survive in the long run because someone was
making them become "progressive" <g>.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com |
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| Chris.B... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:58 am |
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The most interesting aspect of the green economy is that it finally
breaks the dependence of the "working classes" on central services and
energy supplies. Once everybody has an electric car they can charge
themselves and a warm, highly insulated, low energy home they have no
need of centralised energy providers. Economic Independence for the
majority could change the face of the planet. It breaks the domination
of the fat controller who has soaked up the profits for our excess
labours for their own benefit since we left the Rift Valley. The human
experiment has failed catastrophically for the benefit of any but a
tiny fraction of the human race. We enjoy flat screen TVs while the
majority still wonder where dinner is coming from and whether they
will even see the sun rise tomorrow.
Massive human over-breeding only takes place because of a complete
lack of social and health care for the majority of the human race.
Particularly in old age. The pressure is still on to over-breed even
when they move en-masse to economically supportive areas like
Scandinavia. It takes more than one generation to break the social and
economic survival rules of thousands of years of living in abject,
backward, uneducated poverty elsewhere in the world. Until women are
given full control over their own bodies then the immigrants will
rapidly out-populate the natives. Putting an intolerable burden on the
social and health security provisions and exciting racism in the
existing population.
Maturity for the human race will mean equal sharing of the wealth of
the earth and the labours of the majority. This is an inevitability
because the whole world now knows exactly what is going on at the top
and is neither impressed nor afraid of raising their voices. Only a
huge shift to equality will provide lasting peace and sustainable
prosperity. The alternative is a cyclic collapse into anarchy, tribal
warfare, genocide and warlord rule. Ironically it is only a serious
pandemic which will make the individual valuable again. Instead of
merely disposable economic units to be drip-fed the latest new toys
while they continue doing meaningless tasks merely to enrichen the
minority.
Closing down offshore banks (and Switzerland.com in particular) would
be good start in the right direction towards human equality and
sustainable survival. Continuing as we are now would mean every
country will have to defend its fragile borders against the invading
hordes. It would be far cheaper to hand out cash in their own streets
than have them come "here". Even cheaper to remove their dictators and
introduce democracy and heath and social security. While it suits the
rich and powerful to deal directly with the corrupt dictators the
human race remains in suspended animation. It can neither progress nor
survive. The honest politicians cannot change anything because the
crooks are wheeling and dealing. While leaders remain inviolable whole
populations starve or become slave labourers. It cannot go on like
this. |
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| BradGuth... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:30 am |
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On Oct 28, 3:26 am, "Gary Tuvoks" <an... at (no spam) none.none> wrote:
[quote]If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter
installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have
laughed and said this is more proof of how he inept he is on his own and is
really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?
If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura
Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?
If George W.. Bush had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM stock
by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have
approved?
If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special
Olympics, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and
incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful
and historically significant gift, would you have approved?
If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos
of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic
and tacky?
If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia , would you have
approved?
If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the
non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor
slip?
If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with
people who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you
have approved?
If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco de
Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May
(Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you
have winced in embarrassment?
If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word "advice" would you have hammered
him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as proof of what a dunce he
is?
If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a
single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a hypocrite?
If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One flying low
over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan
causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually
get what happened on 9-11?
If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims
throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in
New Orleans , would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue
with claims of racism and incompetence?
If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly
to
him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in America
,
would you have approved.
If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major
corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so,
would you have approved?
If George W Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken
more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have
approved?
If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10
years, would you have approved?
So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and
impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's done all this in 5
months -- so you'll have three years and seven months to come up with an
answer.
[/quote]
You really think we could have survived WW3?
~ BG |
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| yourmommycalled... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:53 am |
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On Oct 30, 8:48 am, "David Staup" <dst... at (no spam) sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[quote]"Chris L Peterson" <c... at (no spam) alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in messagenews:gukke515pctkbn0ohcmd8456vk7edvhckc at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:28:50 -0500, "David Staup" <dst... at (no spam) sbcglobal.net
wrote:
ah and where would those pupeteers be without speaker to animals and louis
wo...those who would stick there heads in the sand always need the
help..not
the other way around
Actually, they needed one of their own- who was insane. It was him/her
who chose Speaker and Louis, and Speaker had been bred for docility. The
Kzin were only going to survive in the long run because someone was
making them become "progressive" <g>.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
I guess well see shortly wheather this is a conservative country or not
[/quote]
I guess you didn't hear about the election last November. Seems that
the country finally understood that the fake conservatives, who spend
like drunken sailors and start fights with just about everybody they
could, created the financial melt down, were the reason they lost
their jobs and homes and the reason for our crumbling society |
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| BradGuth... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:32 am |
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On Oct 30, 8:18 am, Chris L Peterson <c... at (no spam) alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:58:26 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B" <chri... at (no spam) nypost.dk
wrote:
Maturity for the human race will mean equal sharing of the wealth of
the earth and the labours of the majority.
That has never worked, and never will. I'd argue that social maturity
involves finding the balance between sharing and personal incentive. Any
system has to recognize human nature, and human nature is rather
schizophrenic compared with most other species: we are simultaneously
territorial and social. Thus, we covet personal property and seek
personal material gain, while still forming complex societies.
IMO the Scandinavian countries have come closest to finding a natural
balance in these contradictory characteristics: they share enough to
prevent gross imbalance in personal wealth, and to ensure that
everybody's _basic_ needs are met (health, housing, food), while still
maintaining strong capitalist economies that provide incentive for
innovation and the acquisition of reasonable wealth (and the benefits
that come with wealth).
In more personal terms, I would be comfortable with my taxes helping to
ensure that everyone has health care, housing, and food. I'm not willing
to share the fruits of my labor so my neighbor can have a big screen TV
or long vacations in the Bahamas. "Equal sharing of the wealth" isn't
ever going to be a successful model!
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com
[/quote]
True, especially since faith-based policy still applies, is why such
gross social and economic disparity is going to last for eternity.
There's no way the Zionist caste system wants equality, any more so
than any other local or international mafia cartel/cabal is going to
give an inch without a good fight (including WW3 if need be).
~ BG |
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| David Staup... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:48 am |
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"Chris L Peterson" <clp at (no spam) alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:gukke515pctkbn0ohcmd8456vk7edvhckc at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:28:50 -0500, "David Staup" <dstaup at (no spam) sbcglobal.net
wrote:
ah and where would those pupeteers be without speaker to animals and louis
wo...those who would stick there heads in the sand always need the
help..not
the other way around
Actually, they needed one of their own- who was insane. It was him/her
who chose Speaker and Louis, and Speaker had been bred for docility. The
Kzin were only going to survive in the long run because someone was
making them become "progressive" <g>.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
[/quote]
I guess well see shortly wheather this is a conservative country or not |
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| yourmommycalled... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:59 am |
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On Oct 29, 9:17 am, "S. Caro" <sc... at (no spam) muxnet.com> wrote:
[quote]Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:34:34 -0500, "S. Caro" <sc... at (no spam) muxnet.com> wrote:
We'd be paying $6.00 a gallon for gasoline.
As we should be. At least.
And I suppose you want meat banned too (or at least taxed heavily):
The United nation would like this:http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=envi...
So would Lord Stern from the UK Office of Climate Change:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6891362.ece
I guess all the people in the industry that lose their livelihood could get
high paying jobs building windmills, solar cells and smart grids.
[/quote]
Considering the fact that the clueless MBA's, financial analysts, and
lawyers have pretty much destroyed any industry in the US that
PRODUCES anything with their greed and shortsightedness that the only
"high paying jobs" that can be had are in "building windmills, solar
cells and smart grids.". But then again those are industries that
PRODUCE, MAKE, or BUILD something rather than gambling with my money
on how much a stock will go up or down over the next 15 seconds or
salami-slicing |
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| Chris L Peterson... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:18 am |
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:58:26 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B" <chris.b at (no spam) nypost.dk>
wrote:
[quote]Maturity for the human race will mean equal sharing of the wealth of
the earth and the labours of the majority.
[/quote]
That has never worked, and never will. I'd argue that social maturity
involves finding the balance between sharing and personal incentive. Any
system has to recognize human nature, and human nature is rather
schizophrenic compared with most other species: we are simultaneously
territorial and social. Thus, we covet personal property and seek
personal material gain, while still forming complex societies.
IMO the Scandinavian countries have come closest to finding a natural
balance in these contradictory characteristics: they share enough to
prevent gross imbalance in personal wealth, and to ensure that
everybody's _basic_ needs are met (health, housing, food), while still
maintaining strong capitalist economies that provide incentive for
innovation and the acquisition of reasonable wealth (and the benefits
that come with wealth).
In more personal terms, I would be comfortable with my taxes helping to
ensure that everyone has health care, housing, and food. I'm not willing
to share the fruits of my labor so my neighbor can have a big screen TV
or long vacations in the Bahamas. "Equal sharing of the wealth" isn't
ever going to be a successful model!
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com |
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| Chris.B... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:51 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 30, 5:32 pm, BradGuth <bradg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]
True, especially since faith-based policy still applies, is why such
gross social and economic disparity is going to last for eternity.
There's no way the Zionist caste system wants equality, any more so
than any other local or international mafia cartel/cabal is going to
give an inch without a good fight (including WW3 if need be).
~ BG
[/quote]
The inverse proportion rule. Those who have most are least likely to
give up anything at all. It's the squirrel gone nuts syndrome.
Scrooges writ obscenely large. If they can't even understand the
concept of equality how can they possibly agree to it voluntarily? How
does a man who has everything (including a very big car) handle the
concept of atmospheric CO2 unless they live in $7.60 a gallon Euro-
cuckoo land? Answer: He will fiddle the system anyway to ensure the
fuel bill is paid twice by the taxpayer as a business expense. He will
then deposit the taxpayer's money in Switzerland to gain tax free
interest. How many bags of gold teeth from Auschwitz do they still
have on deposit in Switzerland? A: Swiss bankers are as honest and
neutral as the Vatican. |
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| Steve Paul... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:26 pm |
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yourmommycalled wrote:
[quote]Considering the fact that the clueless MBA's, financial analysts, and
lawyers have pretty much destroyed any industry in the US that
PRODUCES anything with their greed and shortsightedness that the only
"high paying jobs" that can be had are in "building windmills, solar
cells and smart grids.". But then again those are industries that
PRODUCE, MAKE, or BUILD something rather than gambling with my money
on how much a stock will go up or down over the next 15 seconds or
salami-slicing
[/quote]
I worked on windmills back in the mid-80's testing the control panels. It
was scary shit, but cool tech.
480V Triple Phase dropped into the test bay from one of Boston's main
powerline feeds running overhead. Two guys in the bay at all times. One
standing next to the big red button on the power panel, in case the guy with
the screwdriver poking around the windmill control panel discovered an
assembly failure of the deadliest kind.
True story.
US Windpower in Burlington MA. Circa 1985 IIRC. I heard later that they
moved to Livermore, CA.
-Steve P. |
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| spud... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:53 pm |
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So, I’d like to hear a rational argument that the Maoist advance
society (progressive/liberal ideals) launched China to world economic
dominance within the last decade after 50 years of abject oppression
and squalor implementing the working mans utopia? Maybe Stalin or
Castro are better examples? Just the wrong guys running the show, eh?
China is a better argument supporting " a society that has been
advanced by regressive/conservatives. " principles that it has by
leftist theology. History is litter with the garbage "From each
according to his ability, to each according to his need ". To deny
human nature is folly. Until this race of human animals is replaced
with a race that isn’t motivated by self, so called progressive ideals
will always fail. If that race emerges (unlikely) it will fall to ANY
animal even slightly more gregarious.
The problem is the thinking by the brainwashed is upside down. The
highest ideal is individual sovereignty and yes, all the
accountability and consequences that go with it. Governments’ roll
then is simply to reconcile conflict. Any more is oppression of
sovereign people. Here’s an example of current leftist backward
theology. Obama says the Feds subsidizes individual health insurance
by not taxing employer provided benefits! The Feds assume they have
a RIGHT to ALL of my being! A progressive mind would see Obama is
subsidized by the fruits of (our so called) sovereign peoples labor.
How does he justify THAT extortion other that the point of a gun?
So what is a liberal, who is progressive? Some one that adheres to
Marxist theology or one that seeks to advance personal sovereignty?
If one insists on calling the later a regressive, then fine you are
only fooling yourself.
Steve
Oregon
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:38:49 -0400, Davoud <star at (no spam) sky.net> wrote:
[quote]David Staup:
Clearly this answers the Fermi paradox....as an advanced society matures it
gets taken over by "progressives and liberals" and that's the beginning of
the end..
Chris L Peterson:
Or maybe that maturation to progressive thinking simply means that the
society has the good sense not to get involved in foreign affairs, so it
becomes invisible to the more primitive societies of the Universe...
The guy is hopeless. He doesn't get that "advanced society" and
"progressives and liberals" are virtual synonyms.
I'm trying to think of a society that has been advanced by
regressives/conservatives. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, North
Korea?
Davoud[/quote] |
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| yourmommycalled... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:18 am |
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On Oct 31, 8:52 am, "David Staup" <dst... at (no spam) sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[quote]"spud" <midni... at (no spam) theoasis.com> wrote in message
news:4kdne5tjobhgm91j597sonelo4hlg5knvu at (no spam) 4ax.com...
So, I'd like to hear a rational argument that the Maoist advance
society (progressive/liberal ideals) launched China to world economic
dominance within the last decade after 50 years of abject oppression
and squalor implementing the working mans utopia? Maybe Stalin or
Castro are better examples? Just the wrong guys running the show, eh?
China is a better argument supporting " a society that has been
advanced by regressive/conservatives. " principles that it has by
leftist theology. History is litter with the garbage "From each
according to his ability, to each according to his need ". To deny
human nature is folly. Until this race of human animals is replaced
with a race that isn't motivated by self, so called progressive ideals
will always fail. If that race emerges (unlikely) it will fall to ANY
animal even slightly more gregarious.
The problem is the thinking by the brainwashed is upside down. The
highest ideal is individual sovereignty and yes, all the
accountability and consequences that go with it. Governments' roll
then is simply to reconcile conflict. Any more is oppression of
sovereign people. Here's an example of current leftist backward
theology. Obama says the Feds subsidizes individual health insurance
by not taxing employer provided benefits! The Feds assume they have
a RIGHT to ALL of my being! A progressive mind would see Obama is
subsidized by the fruits of (our so called) sovereign peoples labor.
How does he justify THAT extortion other that the point of a gun?
So what is a liberal, who is progressive? Some one that adheres to
Marxist theology or one that seeks to advance personal sovereignty?
If one insists on calling the later a regressive, then fine you are
only fooling yourself.
Steve
Oregon
very well stated...
but if you're expecting a logical argument from a progressive/liberal well
good luck..likely they're just going to call you names...
[/quote]
We certainly have seen anything logical or based on facts in any of
your posts yet. Try reading a newspaper rather than just parroting
Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O'Rielly. Also please don't try the "I don't
listen to them I think for myself" canard as you posts are nearly cut
and paste from their websites |
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| yourmommycalled... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:19 am |
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On Oct 30, 11:53 pm, spud <midni... at (no spam) theoasis.com> wrote:
[quote]So, I’d like to hear a rational argument that the Maoist advance
society (progressive/liberal ideals) launched China to world economic
dominance within the last decade after 50 years of abject oppression
and squalor implementing the working mans utopia? Maybe Stalin or
Castro are better examples? Just the wrong guys running the show, eh?
[/quote]
You start with an upside down statement. You can not make a rational
argument that Maoist China is progressive/liberal society because is
not now nor ever has been a progressive/liberal society.
[quote]China is a better argument supporting " a society that has been
advanced by regressive/conservatives. " principles that it has by
leftist theology. History is litter with the garbage "From each
according to his ability, to each according to his need ". To deny
human nature is folly. Until this race of human animals is replaced
with a race that isn’t motivated by self, so called progressive ideals
will always fail. If that race emerges (unlikely) it will fall to ANY
animal even slightly more gregarious.
[/quote]
Once again you start with an illogical statement. Mainland China is
indeed a regressive government/society, Spend a month or two in
mainland China or work with mainland Chinese scientist and it is easy
see just how repressed the Chinese are. To call the communist/Maoist
style of government conservative is just plain stupid, just like
claiming the Bush/Cheney government was a conservative style of
government. The current Chinese government/society is far more like
the Reagan/Bush/Cheney neo-conservative "I've got mine, screw you"
style of government. Just the Bush/Cheney administration gave
Halliburton and KBR free reign line the corporate pockets at the
government expense so does the current Chinese government with it's so-
called private companies. The Chinese people, at the street level, are
conservative in their own personal lives, much as many of the posters
here are conservative in their personal lives, but yet reject the
"i've got mine, screw you" imitation of conservative thinking. You
been reading too much of the long debunked Ayn Rand. Just a a reminder
Ayn Rand was not a proponent of conservatism, but egoism. Just as a
reminder egoism is the philosophy that people ought to do what is in
their own self-interest. Not much different from the "I've got mine,
screw you" attitude that you suggest.
[quote]The problem is the thinking by the brainwashed is upside down. The
highest ideal is individual sovereignty and yes, all the
accountability and consequences that go with it. Governments’ roll
then is simply to reconcile conflict. Any more is oppression of
sovereign people. Here’s an example of current leftist backward
theology. Obama says the Feds subsidizes individual health insurance
by not taxing employer provided benefits! The Feds assume they have
a RIGHT to ALL of my being! A progressive mind would see Obama is
subsidized by the fruits of (our so called) sovereign peoples labor.
How does he justify THAT extortion other that the point of a gun?
So what is a liberal, who is progressive? Some one that adheres to
Marxist theology or one that seeks to advance personal sovereignty?
If one insists on calling the later a regressive, then fine you are
only fooling yourself.
Steve
Oregon
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:38:49 -0400, Davoud <s... at (no spam) sky.net> wrote:
David Staup:
Clearly this answers the Fermi paradox....as an advanced society matures it
gets taken over by "progressives and liberals" and that's the beginning of
the end..
Chris L Peterson:
Or maybe that maturation to progressive thinking simply means that the
society has the good sense not to get involved in foreign affairs, so it
becomes invisible to the more primitive societies of the Universe...
The guy is hopeless. He doesn't get that "advanced society" and
"progressives and liberals" are virtual synonyms.
I'm trying to think of a society that has been advanced by
regressives/conservatives. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, North
Korea?
Davoud[/quote] |
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