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| Van Chocstraw... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:20 pm |
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Guest
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We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the
center of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe
but near the edge, would that change our idea? |
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| BradGuth... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:21 pm |
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On Oct 24, 7:40 pm, Navigaiter <allenme... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]I read that no matter which direction an astronomer looks, all stars
have redshift and so are moving away from us. Therefore we just might
be at the center of creation?
Anyway, the "Big Bang" is a bust.
Amd 80% of the universe is unknowable, indetectable "Dark Matter"
so cosmology is a comic book ;-]
cheers from the Navigaiter in KW FL
On Oct 24, 9:20 pm, Van Chocstraw <boobooililili... at (no spam) roadrunner.com
wrote:
We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the
center of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe
but near the edge, would that change our idea?
[/quote]
You are blueshift blinded by all of that redshift light. Good grief,
are you really that snookered and dumbfounded?
~ BG |
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| BradGuth... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:21 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 24, 9:19 pm, Sylvia Else <syl... at (no spam) not.at.this.address> wrote:
[quote]Van Chocstraw wrote:
We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
Every observer is at the apex of a light cone, in which the further away
they look, the further into the past they're seeing. There's nothing
about our descriptions of the universe that imply that we are at, or
think we are at, the centre of the universe.
Sylvia.
[/quote]
Trying to objectively consider our extremely minimal existence in this
vast universe is next to impossible. Too many folks here are mindset
on Earth being the one and only intelligence worthy habitat.
~ BG |
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| Navigaiter... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:21 pm |
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Guest
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I read that no matter which direction an astronomer looks, all stars
have redshift and so are moving away from us. Therefore we just might
be at the center of creation?
Anyway, the "Big Bang" is a bust.
Amd 80% of the universe is unknowable, indetectable "Dark Matter"
so cosmology is a comic book ;-]
cheers from the Navigaiter in KW FL
On Oct 24, 9:20 pm, Van Chocstraw <boobooililili... at (no spam) roadrunner.com>
wrote:
[quote]We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the
center of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe
but near the edge, would that change our idea?[/quote] |
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| Sylvia Else... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:19 pm |
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Guest
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Van Chocstraw wrote:
[quote]We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
[/quote]
Every observer is at the apex of a light cone, in which the further away
they look, the further into the past they're seeing. There's nothing
about our descriptions of the universe that imply that we are at, or
think we are at, the centre of the universe.
Sylvia. |
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| Fred J. McCall... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:25 pm |
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Van Chocstraw <boobooililililil at (no spam) roadrunner.com> wrote:
:We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
:Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
:say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
:look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
:We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the
:center of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe
:but near the edge, would that change our idea?
You're confused (and you are the one who is thinking like a
primitive). There is no 'center'. Any point is like any other and
the universe looks pretty much the same from any one of them.
Relativity - Learn Some.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson |
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| Sylvia Else... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:59 am |
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Guest
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BradGuth wrote:
[quote]On Oct 24, 9:19 pm, Sylvia Else <syl... at (no spam) not.at.this.address> wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
Every observer is at the apex of a light cone, in which the further away
they look, the further into the past they're seeing. There's nothing
about our descriptions of the universe that imply that we are at, or
think we are at, the centre of the universe.
Sylvia.
Trying to objectively consider our extremely minimal existence in this
vast universe is next to impossible. Too many folks here are mindset
on Earth being the one and only intelligence worthy habitat.
[/quote]
Well, it may not be the one and only habitat worthy of intelligence, but
it might indeed by the only one where intelligence at a human level exists.
The appearance of intelligence in humans involved at least two, and
probably more, separate occasions where our ancestors nearly became
extinct, with the accompanying evolutionary pressure to acquire
increased intelligence. But there's only a small margin for error - and
actually becoming extinct was on the face of it a much more likely outcome.
Sylvia |
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| Greg D. Moore (Strider)... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:20 am |
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Guest
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"Van Chocstraw" <boobooililililil at (no spam) roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:Z7mdnbGotsNgOn7XnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote]We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet?
[/quote]
No, someone sitting 15 billion light years from us sees what was here 15
billion years ago.
The light from Sol can only be seen about 5 billion light years away.
[quote]Why is it that when we look out in the past we talk like WE are at the
center of the universe?
We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the center
of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe but near
the edge, would that change our idea?
[/quote]
--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC. |
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| Greg D. Moore (Strider)... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:21 am |
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Guest
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No. No more than two ants on the surface of a balloon that is expanding
think the other ant is moving away from them.
--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.
"Navigaiter" <allenmeece at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fab0be72-6a4b-4907-8dfd-5642a373fa14 at (no spam) h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
I read that no matter which direction an astronomer looks, all stars
have redshift and so are moving away from us. Therefore we just might
be at the center of creation?
Anyway, the "Big Bang" is a bust.
Amd 80% of the universe is unknowable, indetectable "Dark Matter"
so cosmology is a comic book ;-]
cheers from the Navigaiter in KW FL
On Oct 24, 9:20 pm, Van Chocstraw <boobooililili... at (no spam) roadrunner.com>
wrote:
[quote]We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the
center of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe
but near the edge, would that change our idea?[/quote] |
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| RalphE... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:47 am |
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On Oct 26, 5:53 am, Van Chocstraw <boobooililili... at (no spam) roadrunner.com>
wrote:
[quote]Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:> No. No more than two ants on the surface of a balloon that is expanding
think the other ant is moving away from them.
Why are we on the surface? What if we are not and nearer the center or
above the surface?
[/quote]
We are not really on the "surface" - it's just a helpful analogy. The
current model suggests that the universe is expanding everywhere, so
no matter where you are it will look to you as if everything is moving
further away from you. It's just that people have a difficult time
with visualizing an expanding 3d universe, so we like to use the
analogy of the ant sitting on a balloon that is being inflated to
explain it.
Ralph
---
Dream of Space? Help make it Real.
www.open-aerospace.org |
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| Van Chocstraw... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:53 am |
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Guest
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Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
[quote]No. No more than two ants on the surface of a balloon that is expanding
think the other ant is moving away from them.
Why are we on the surface? What if we are not and nearer the center or[/quote]
above the surface? |
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| Fred J. McCall... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:04 am |
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Guest
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Van Chocstraw <boobooililililil at (no spam) roadrunner.com> wrote:
:Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
:> No. No more than two ants on the surface of a balloon that is expanding
:> think the other ant is moving away from them.
:>
:
:Why are we on the surface? What if we are not and nearer the center or
:above the surface?
:
You can't be 'nearer the center or above the surface'. The spacetime
continuum of our universe only exists on the surface.
Jesus, boy, take a physics class...
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson |
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| Wayne Throop... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:04 pm |
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:: I read that no matter which direction an astronomer looks, all stars
:: have redshift and so are moving away from us. Therefore we just
:: might be at the center of creation?
Usually, the bit following the "therefore" should be implied by
the bit *before* the "therefore". In the above that turns out
not to be the case.
:: Amd 80% of the universe is unknowable, indetectable "Dark Matter"
Whatever gave you the bizarre idea that it's "indetectable"?
It's been detected fairly directly, by it's effects on light,
same way you "detect" an apple or a bicycle. As well as being
detectable by its effects on nearby non-Dark matter.
Wayne Throop throopw at (no spam) sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw |
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| Jonathan... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:05 pm |
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Guest
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"Navigaiter" <allenmeece at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fab0be72-6a4b-4907-8dfd-5642a373fa14 at (no spam) h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
[quote]I read that no matter which direction an astronomer looks, all stars
have redshift and so are moving away from us. Therefore we just might
be at the center of creation?
Anyway, the "Big Bang" is a bust.
Amd 80% of the universe is unknowable, indetectable "Dark Matter"
so cosmology is a comic book ;-]
[/quote]
I think the number I heard was 70% of all the matter in the universe
is still a complete unknown. And until that mystery is spelled out
better, than yes, the cosmology often quoted far and wide is
more fiction than fact.
Once one understands a bit more about how dark matter and dark
energy have evolved, the universe begins to take on a distinctly
different look. Hint; instead of an expanding balloon, think
roiling ocean.
There is no singularity, big bangs are local.....and
Life and Dark Energy evolved at the same time
for reasons not yet clear.
You are correct in the sense that the best discoveries
are all yet to come. Most people never get past the
Discovery Channel, and don't read for themselves
the latest theories.
The very latest cosmology, a cyclic universe based on the attractor
equations of chaos theory, can be found below. Great stuff, especially
the paper titled 'A Quintessential Intro to Dark Energy.'
Paul J. Steinhardt
Director, Center for Theoretical Science &
Professor of Physics
Princeton University
Princeton, NJ 08544-0708
http://wwwphy.princeton.edu/~steinh/
cheers from the Navigaiter in KW FL
On Oct 24, 9:20 pm, Van Chocstraw <boobooililili... at (no spam) roadrunner.com>
wrote:
[quote]We see new gaxalies 13 billion light years ago,near the big bang time.
Is that so? What about somebody on that galaxy looking at us, would they
say the same thing? Did our light get there yet? Why is it that when we
look out in the past we talk like WE are at the center of the universe?
We are thinking like 15th century people that thought earth was the
center of the solar system. If we are not at the center of the universe
but near the edge, would that change our idea?[/quote] |
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| Van Chocstraw... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:42 am |
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Guest
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RalphE wrote:
[quote]On Oct 26, 5:53 am, Van Chocstraw <boobooililili... at (no spam) roadrunner.com
wrote:
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:> No. No more than two ants on the surface of a balloon that is expanding
think the other ant is moving away from them.
Why are we on the surface? What if we are not and nearer the center or
above the surface?
We are not really on the "surface" - it's just a helpful analogy. The
current model suggests that the universe is expanding everywhere, so
no matter where you are it will look to you as if everything is moving
further away from you. It's just that people have a difficult time
with visualizing an expanding 3d universe, so we like to use the
analogy of the ant sitting on a balloon that is being inflated to
explain it.
Ralph
---
Dream of Space? Help make it Real.
www.open-aerospace.org
[/quote]
Not everything. Andromeda is heading at us as is the local group which
will merge. |
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