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How to weld or repair this critter?...

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Gunner Asch...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:24 am

Guest

http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Ignoramus3519...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:12 am

Guest

I would braze this.

i

On 2009-10-22, Gunner Asch <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
[quote]http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""[/quote]

Steve W....

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:53 am

Guest

Gunner Asch wrote:
[quote]http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""
[/quote]
Being it's under stress you would probably be better off if you drilled
both pieces for a set of loose press fit steel pins. V the edges some
and weld it after the pins are in. The pins will transfer the stress
across the joint while the weld holds the parts together.
Same idea as Re-Bar in concrete.

--
Steve W.

jw...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:38 am

Guest

On Oct 22, 6:24 am, Gunner Asch <gun... at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
[quote]http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""
[/quote]
Similar concept to what SteveW suggested. Drill it for a pin on both
sides and JB weld the whole deal back together. If you coat the pin
and the parts and then slide it together with a slight coating on the
face of the casting, you will barely be able to tell the fix has been
made and it will be plenty strong enough. The pin will be taking the
majority of the bending stress on the joint, and the faces will be
mostly in tension to separate at the fusion line.

To drill it, super glue the pieces back together and drill through
them both for a loose fit of whatever your pin is.

BTDT, worked great.

JW

Private...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:04 am

Guest

"Gunner Asch" <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:grf0e5d5ib6v9eckadfci4qtqth88iku7u at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.
[/quote]
I suspect that the broken bit should attach to the outside radius of the
half moon shape on the main casting? There appears to be a broken surface
there, but it is so clean that it could be a failed weld or braze? It
almost looks like the remains of an unfused root between two bevels? It is
a strange fracture? How could it have been caused?

Any weld type repair will require bevelling the small broken bit. If you
use an OA torch to rough in the bevel then you will have a good test of the
type of cast material you are working with, if it burns then it is cast
steel but if it just melts and blows away then it is cast iron.

If it is a good quality cast steel then you can repair with steel weld
material but if there is any doubt then brass would be my choice, YMMV.

In any case, I would want to disassemble the large casting and use standard
preheat and controlled cooldown combined with peening to remove stresses
from shrinkage of the weld or braze material. Use an oxidizing flame to
burn off the carbon junk that the grinder disk will have smeared on the
surface, then use added flux designed for brazing cast iron and do not rely
on coated rods for flux.

Good luck, YMMV

jw...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 am

Guest

On Oct 22, 3:26 pm, Gunner Asch <gun... at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:53:02 -0400, "Steve W." <csr... at (no spam) NOTyahoo.com
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Being it's under stress you would probably be better off if you drilled
both pieces for a set of loose press fit steel pins. V the edges some
and weld it after the pins are in. The pins will transfer the stress
across the joint while the weld holds the parts together.
Same idea as Re-Bar in concrete.

I was originally thinking about a couple dowel pins..but the length and
size prevents me from holding the parts in a drill press or mill.

Any suggestions?

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""
[/quote]
You've got a right angle head :)

Can't clamp it to the bed of the mill somehow?

JW

Buerste...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:05 pm

Guest

Roger Shoaf...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:12 pm

Guest

I kind of prefer the pin and epoxy method.

Welding will probably fail as the weld is cooling.

Brazing would work fine if you were able to furnace braze the sucker and
slowly allow it to cool back down, but torch brazing would be a real bitch
to try and have it cool slowly and evenly.

--
Roger Shoaf

If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the
Congress?

"Gunner Asch" <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:grf0e5d5ib6v9eckadfci4qtqth88iku7u at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote]http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""[/quote]

Gunner Asch...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:25 pm

Guest

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 07:12:53 -0500, Ignoramus3519
<ignoramus3519 at (no spam) NOSPAM.3519.invalid> wrote:

[quote]I would braze this.
[/quote]
Ok..why braze rather than tig?

[quote]
i

On 2009-10-22, Gunner Asch <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""
[/quote]
"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner Asch...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:26 pm

Guest

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:53:02 -0400, "Steve W." <csr684 at (no spam) NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:

[quote]Gunner Asch wrote:
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Being it's under stress you would probably be better off if you drilled
both pieces for a set of loose press fit steel pins. V the edges some
and weld it after the pins are in. The pins will transfer the stress
across the joint while the weld holds the parts together.
Same idea as Re-Bar in concrete.
[/quote]
I was originally thinking about a couple dowel pins..but the length and
size prevents me from holding the parts in a drill press or mill.

Any suggestions?

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Gunner Asch...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:30 pm

Guest

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:04:43 -0700, "Private" <please at (no spam) dont.bother>
wrote:

[quote]
"Gunner Asch" <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:grf0e5d5ib6v9eckadfci4qtqth88iku7u at (no spam) 4ax.com...
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

I suspect that the broken bit should attach to the outside radius of the
half moon shape on the main casting? There appears to be a broken surface
there, but it is so clean that it could be a failed weld or braze? It
almost looks like the remains of an unfused root between two bevels? It is
a strange fracture? How could it have been caused?
[/quote]
I think someone tried adjusting the engagement screw improperly and ran
it for a period of time in stress..and it finally snapped. Its a clear,
clean sheer.
[quote]
Any weld type repair will require bevelling the small broken bit. If you
use an OA torch to rough in the bevel then you will have a good test of the
type of cast material you are working with, if it burns then it is cast
steel but if it just melts and blows away then it is cast iron.
[/quote]
Ok.
[quote]
If it is a good quality cast steel then you can repair with steel weld
material but if there is any doubt then brass would be my choice, YMMV.

Ok[/quote]

[quote]In any case, I would want to disassemble the large casting and use standard
preheat and controlled cooldown combined with peening to remove stresses
from shrinkage of the weld or braze material. Use an oxidizing flame to
burn off the carbon junk that the grinder disk will have smeared on the
surface, then use added flux designed for brazing cast iron and do not rely
on coated rods for flux.
[/quote]
Ok again..so far you make a great deal of sense. Ive got cast iron flux
in the welding cabinet. Ill wait for more suggestions and if there are
none..try your method.

Thanks!
[quote]
Good luck, YMMV

[/quote]
"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

RoyJ...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:19 pm

Guest

It's a small casting (no, if you look carefully it is NOT broken off the
main rotary assembly, it's on the end of the small casting that has the
screw). I'd disassemble so you don't mess up anything, heat as hot as
you can (kitchen over at full heat for an hour) then torch braze, toss
it back in the oven, cool slowly (100 degrees per hour or so)

Ignoramus3519 wrote:
[quote]I would braze this.

i

On 2009-10-22, Gunner Asch <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""[/quote]

spaco...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:28 pm

Guest

How about this?:
Design a new part that can be bolted onto the old assembly.
-Measure everything carefully.
-Mill the casting off to a nice, reproducable mating surface.
-Make a new part that you can bolt into place to the new surface.
Maybe you can even improve upon the original design to make it stronger.

I know several people who have welded cast iron, including me. Out of
this dozen or so folks, I'd only let 2 of them within 10 feet of your
project (and neither one of them is me).

One of the two recently told me that he just found a "new" cast iron
flux that made cast iron welding a real treat.

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------

Gunner Asch wrote:

[quote]
Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?
[/quote]

Mark Rand...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:33 pm

Guest

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:24:31 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net>
wrote:

[quote]
Any suggestions/methods?
[/quote]
My personal approach would be to disassemble the thing, insert a couple of
small dowels for alignment, bevel the edges, heat both parts to 400C/750F, arc
weld using 98% nickel rods, peening the weld for each pass, then cool gently.

The presence of a foundry nearby might encourage me to glue the bits together,
plug the holes, spray several coats of high build primer/spray bondo over it
to give a shrinkage allowance. Then get the "pattern" cast and re-machine.

The reason I'd use the Ni rods is that I've got them. Anything you've got has
an advantage over anything you ain't got.

Regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

Gunner Asch...

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:48 pm

Guest

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:38:29 -0700 (PDT), jw <cyberzl1 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]On Oct 22, 6:24 am, Gunner Asch <gun... at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/MiscStuff#5381831800188494962

This is a rotary table for a milling machine. The thingy with the wheel
on the right (small wheel with the big screw on the end...had the small
cast iron piece broken off when I got this rotory table. It needs to be
attached back to the end of the crank at the flat spot you can see just
above the screw.

Should I try to weld this? Should I mill a groove about 9/16" wide and
lay in a piece of 1/2 x 9/16 flat stock and bolt it together?

Any suggestions on the best way to secure the big piece to the little
piece?

The busted bit is engaged from the outside and puts the screw in contact
with a worm gear and the actual broken bit has an adjustment bolt for
depth and an engagement sear..so it may may be under a little stress.

The rotary table is 12" across so you can picture scale

Any suggestions/methods?

Ive got mills, cutters, 300 amp TIG, drill presses etc etc. I just need
some guidence.

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Similar concept to what SteveW suggested. Drill it for a pin on both
sides and JB weld the whole deal back together. If you coat the pin
and the parts and then slide it together with a slight coating on the
face of the casting, you will barely be able to tell the fix has been
made and it will be plenty strong enough. The pin will be taking the
majority of the bending stress on the joint, and the faces will be
mostly in tension to separate at the fusion line.

To drill it, super glue the pieces back together and drill through
them both for a loose fit of whatever your pin is.

BTDT, worked great.

JW
On a similar rotary table?[/quote]

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

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