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| Science Forum Index » Engineering - Lighting Forum » FYI lighting & birds... |
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| Sarah Austin... |
 Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:57 pm |
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| TKM... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:22 pm |
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"Sarah Austin" <SAustin at (no spam) pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CAADF7854291SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco at (no spam) 216.196.97.142...
[quote]http://www.mmlights.com/bird%20lights.html
[/quote]
Wow. What an incredible amount of misleading and just plain wrong
information.
For example, the paragraph that starts, "A second consideration..." talks
about germ killing and Vitamin D.
Short wave ultraviolet is required to kill germs (there's very little in
sunlight and less to none in fluorescent lamp light -- even typical
so-called "full spectrum". Similarly, with the synthesis of Vitamin D. The
process described is the process for humans. Is it the same for birds?
That doesn't seem likely especially birds with feathers. How does the short
wave UV get through feathers to the skin where the initial reactions take
place?
The typical so-called "full spectrum" fluorescent lamps do not emit UV and
especially the short wavelength UV. Neither the CRI or the Color
Temperature rating of the fluorescent tube is a measure or even an indicator
of UV output.
Terry McGowan |
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| Joe... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:23 am |
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:22:32 -0400, "TKM" <nomail at (no spam) no.net> wrote:
[quote]
"Sarah Austin" <SAustin at (no spam) pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CAADF7854291SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco at (no spam) 216.196.97.142...
http://www.mmlights.com/bird%20lights.html
Wow. What an incredible amount of misleading and just plain wrong
information.
For example, the paragraph that starts, "A second consideration..." talks
about germ killing and Vitamin D.
Short wave ultraviolet is required to kill germs (there's very little in
sunlight and less to none in fluorescent lamp light -- even typical
so-called "full spectrum". Similarly, with the synthesis of Vitamin D. The
process described is the process for humans. Is it the same for birds?
That doesn't seem likely especially birds with feathers. How does the short
wave UV get through feathers to the skin where the initial reactions take
place?
The typical so-called "full spectrum" fluorescent lamps do not emit UV and
especially the short wavelength UV. Neither the CRI or the Color
Temperature rating of the fluorescent tube is a measure or even an indicator
of UV output.
Terry McGowan
On the other hand, the web site does *sell* the miracle cure, so[/quote]
wouldn't they be a trustworthy source of information? <g>
Sarah, anyone can make claims, but it's important to consider the
validity of those claims. Earlier you wrote that you read "Health &
Light" in the 70s. As a product of the 60s & 70s, I remember the
excitement that greeted new "discoveries" about health issues. The
heightened awareness was really welcome after a few generations of
"meat & potatoes" diets and blind trust in establishment ideas, but
there also was a lot of wishful thinking disguised as real
breakthroughs. In the case of lighting, I think that explains a lot of
the confusion, but the profit motive is the bigger driver.
I don't have time to research it, but you might want to consult with
the Cornell ornithological group about issues relating to bird health.
They are some of the most preeminent experts on birds in the world. My
sister did some post grad work there, and was blown away by the depth
of their study program.
Good luck, and feel free to let us know what you learn about avian
light requirements. "If it's about light, we care."
Joe |
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| TimR... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:32 pm |
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I had to look up Harderian gland. What I found didn't support what
the website claimed, as far as I could tell.
In response to a question of mine, some kind soul on this forum
recommended a book called "Animal Eyes," by Land and Nilsson.
I found it through interlibrary loan (it's $80 at Amazon!).
Wow! I had no idea of the different ways eyes can work. Or even why
a clam has them. I recommend this if you have any interest at all in
animal vision and response to light. |
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| Sarah Austin... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:18 pm |
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"TKM" <nomail at (no spam) no.net> wrote :
[quote]"Sarah Austin" <SAustin at (no spam) pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CAADF7854291SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco at (no spam) 216.196.97.142...
http://www.mmlights.com/bird%20lights.html
Wow. What an incredible amount of misleading and just plain wrong
information.
For example, the paragraph that starts, "A second consideration..."
talks about germ killing and Vitamin D.
Short wave ultraviolet is required to kill germs (there's very little
in sunlight and less to none in fluorescent lamp light -- even
typical so-called "full spectrum". Similarly, with the synthesis of
Vitamin D. The process described is the process for humans. Is it
the same for birds? That doesn't seem likely especially birds with
feathers.
[/quote]
Perhaps through the eyes?
They say that they have to have some sunlight or equivalent, or they
cant make strong bones. But I'm no avian vet...
[quote]How does the short wave UV get through feathers to the
skin where the initial reactions take place?
[/quote]
<shrug>
I DO know that my cockatoo behaves a whole lot better when I take him
out for a walk in the sun every 2-3 days, weather permitting.
[quote]The typical so-called "full spectrum" fluorescent lamps do not emit
UV and especially the short wavelength UV. Neither the CRI or the
Color Temperature rating of the fluorescent tube is a measure or even
an indicator of UV output.
[/quote]
You may be right, but I hear mixed things about this.
I havent been able to get Duro-Test to tell me the UV output of Vita-
Lites. |
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| Sarah Austin... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:19 pm |
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Joe <see_real_one at (no spam) sig.lin> wrote :
[quote]On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:22:32 -0400, "TKM" <nomail at (no spam) no.net> wrote:
"Sarah Austin" <SAustin at (no spam) pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CAADF7854291SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco at (no spam) 216.196.97.142...
http://www.mmlights.com/bird%20lights.html
Wow. What an incredible amount of misleading and just plain wrong
information.
For example, the paragraph that starts, "A second consideration..."
talks about germ killing and Vitamin D.
Short wave ultraviolet is required to kill germs (there's very little
in sunlight and less to none in fluorescent lamp light -- even
typical so-called "full spectrum". Similarly, with the synthesis of
Vitamin D. The process described is the process for humans. Is it
the same for birds? That doesn't seem likely especially birds with
feathers. How does the short wave UV get through feathers to the
skin where the initial reactions take place?
The typical so-called "full spectrum" fluorescent lamps do not emit
UV and especially the short wavelength UV. Neither the CRI or the
Color Temperature rating of the fluorescent tube is a measure or even
an indicator of UV output.
Terry McGowan
On the other hand, the web site does *sell* the miracle cure, so
wouldn't they be a trustworthy source of information? <g
Sarah, anyone can make claims, but it's important to consider the
validity of those claims. Earlier you wrote that you read "Health &
Light" in the 70s. As a product of the 60s & 70s, I remember the
excitement that greeted new "discoveries" about health issues. The
heightened awareness was really welcome after a few generations of
"meat & potatoes" diets and blind trust in establishment ideas, but
there also was a lot of wishful thinking disguised as real
breakthroughs. In the case of lighting, I think that explains a lot
of the confusion, but the profit motive is the bigger driver.
I don't have time to research it, but you might want to consult with
the Cornell ornithological group about issues relating to bird
health. They are some of the most preeminent experts on birds in the
world. My sister did some post grad work there, and was blown away by
the depth of their study program.
Good luck, and feel free to let us know what you learn about avian
light requirements. "If it's about light, we care."
Joe
[/quote]
Thanks Joe. I especially care, because we have 5 pet birds here. |
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| Sarah Austin... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:32 pm |
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Joe <see_real_one at (no spam) sig.lin> wrote :
[quote]On the other hand, the web site does *sell* the miracle cure, so
wouldn't they be a trustworthy source of information? <g
[/quote]
 But I just went to this site looking for info
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/
and found them selling a whole load of goods, but where's the info?
Oh wait...
http://www.allaboutbirds.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1189
nope, not there either.
They seem to focus on outdoor birds in nature?
Ah:
What We Do
The Cornell Lab of Ornithology uses the best science and technology--and
inspires the widest range of people and organizations--to solve critical
problems facing wildlife.
Wild birds only.
[quote]Sarah, anyone can make claims, but it's important to consider the
validity of those claims. Earlier you wrote that you read "Health &
Light" in the 70s.
[/quote]
Yes, and since then some people even claim to have debunked that.
Have any of you read it, and would you care to comment on it?
I carry an open mind.
[quote]As a product of the 60s & 70s, I remember the
excitement that greeted new "discoveries" about health issues. The
heightened awareness was really welcome after a few generations of
"meat & potatoes" diets and blind trust in establishment ideas, but
there also was a lot of wishful thinking disguised as real
breakthroughs.
[/quote]
True.
[quote]In the case of lighting, I think that explains a lot
of the confusion, but the profit motive is the bigger driver.
[/quote]
Understand.
It's hard to know who to trust anymore.
As an Objectivist, I dont think profit motive is bad, as long as people
are truthful despite it, and there's the rub.
[quote]I don't have time to research it, but you might want to consult with
the Cornell ornithological group about issues relating to bird
health. They are some of the most preeminent experts on birds in the
world. My sister did some post grad work there, and was blown away by
the depth of their study program.
[/quote]
Like I said above, I'm not sure about their offerings on indoor pet
birds, if any.
[quote]Good luck, and feel free to let us know what you learn about avian
light requirements. "If it's about light, we care."
[/quote]
Thanks. |
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| Sarah Austin... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:04 pm |
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TimR <timothy42b at (no spam) aol.com> wrote :
[quote]I had to look up Harderian gland. What I found didn't support what
the website claimed, as far as I could tell.
In response to a question of mine, some kind soul on this forum
recommended a book called "Animal Eyes," by Land and Nilsson.
I found it through interlibrary loan (it's $80 at Amazon!).
Wow! I had no idea of the different ways eyes can work. Or even why
a clam has them. I recommend this if you have any interest at all in
animal vision and response to light.
[/quote]
I keep wondering if birds can see temperature.
Our cockatoo seems to be able to tell if it's too cool to go out, even
though we keep the house temp about the same.
They also seem to be able to judge water for bathing in, without getting
in first, or tasting. |
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| Sarah Austin... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:33 pm |
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The time now is Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:53 pm
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