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| Ignoramus6669... |
 Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:56 am |
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This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i |
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| RoyJ... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:10 pm |
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Now that is probably the worst cut I have ever seen! Looks like you
have way too much preheat.
There was a whole discussion under 'Cutting Tips Oxy/Acetylene' in August.
My usual list of tips:
You must be absolutely steady and uniform!! Use a piece of barstock as
a guide, practice pulling the torch towards you while maintaining the
height with one hand and hitting the lever with another hand. This is
the ONLY time I recommend having alcohol while working but half a beer
may relax you enough to make a difference!!
Tip has to be clean. REALLY clean. Did I say CLEAN? File the tip flat,
use a tip cleaner, take a look at the flames out of each hole, they
should be perfectly symetrical.
practice on a piece of 3/8" plate.
4# on the acet, try 20# on the O2. Open the O2 valve on the torch body
wide open, crack the acet valve a bit, light torch, add a bit of O2 from
the cutting head valve, open the acet full. Adjust the cutting head O2
to make the inner and outer blue flames the same length. This is neutral
flame and the hottest flame. Should be something like 1/4" to 5/16" from
tip.
Set the tip of the inner flame on your workpiece (ie the 5/16" from
above), find an edge to get started (You can plunge cut but not as a
newbie!) Once you see a tiny puddle form, hit the O2 lever and start
pulling SLOW and STEADY. The object is to get a cut that stays lit for
the full length. If keeping it lit is a problem, up the O2 pressure to
25 or 30 psi.
Once you get a cut to stay lit for several inches, try to speed it up.
Once you get a full cut, it's time to fix the problems: your back edge
probably looks like c**p. Check to see that the cut is in a straight
line: if not, your guide needs work. If you have trouble losing the cut,
you need to work on slow and steady. Take a look at the lines in the
cut: they should be straight with just a hint of a bend at the far side.
If no bend, reduce the O2 pressure. If gobs of slag, reduce the O2
pressure.
The object is to just use up the O2 as it reaches the far side. A
perfect cut is much smoother than a hacksaw cut. A perfect cut has a
very slight rounding on the near side from the preheat flame, a faint
burr on the back side.
Ignoramus6669 wrote:
[quote]This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i[/quote] |
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| Gunner Asch... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:10 pm |
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:56:53 -0500, Ignoramus6669
<ignoramus6669 at (no spam) NOSPAM.6669.invalid> wrote:
[quote]This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i
[/quote]
You were holding the torch too far away and moving too slow.
But thats pretty common for people to do.
Pressures might be a bit high....what is your tip number?
Gunner
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno |
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| Gunner Asch... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:14 pm |
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:10:55 -0500, RoyJ <spamless at (no spam) microsoft.net> wrote:
[quote]Now that is probably the worst cut I have ever seen! Looks like you
have way too much preheat.
[/quote]
The worst? Blink blink....Crom....thats not half bad compared to some
of the boys around my town.....
[quote]There was a whole discussion under 'Cutting Tips Oxy/Acetylene' in August.
My usual list of tips:
You must be absolutely steady and uniform!! Use a piece of barstock as
a guide, practice pulling the torch towards you while maintaining the
height with one hand and hitting the lever with another hand. This is
the ONLY time I recommend having alcohol while working but half a beer
may relax you enough to make a difference!!
Tip has to be clean. REALLY clean. Did I say CLEAN? File the tip flat,
use a tip cleaner, take a look at the flames out of each hole, they
should be perfectly symetrical.
practice on a piece of 3/8" plate.
4# on the acet, try 20# on the O2. Open the O2 valve on the torch body
wide open, crack the acet valve a bit, light torch, add a bit of O2 from
the cutting head valve, open the acet full. Adjust the cutting head O2
to make the inner and outer blue flames the same length. This is neutral
flame and the hottest flame. Should be something like 1/4" to 5/16" from
tip.
Set the tip of the inner flame on your workpiece (ie the 5/16" from
above), find an edge to get started (You can plunge cut but not as a
newbie!) Once you see a tiny puddle form, hit the O2 lever and start
pulling SLOW and STEADY. The object is to get a cut that stays lit for
the full length. If keeping it lit is a problem, up the O2 pressure to
25 or 30 psi.
Once you get a cut to stay lit for several inches, try to speed it up.
Once you get a full cut, it's time to fix the problems: your back edge
probably looks like c**p. Check to see that the cut is in a straight
line: if not, your guide needs work. If you have trouble losing the cut,
you need to work on slow and steady. Take a look at the lines in the
cut: they should be straight with just a hint of a bend at the far side.
If no bend, reduce the O2 pressure. If gobs of slag, reduce the O2
pressure.
The object is to just use up the O2 as it reaches the far side. A
perfect cut is much smoother than a hacksaw cut. A perfect cut has a
very slight rounding on the near side from the preheat flame, a faint
burr on the back side.
[/quote]
[quote]
Ignoramus6669 wrote:
This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i
[/quote]
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno |
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| Private... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:49 pm |
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Guest
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"Ignoramus6669" <ignoramus6669 at (no spam) NOSPAM.6669.invalid> wrote in message
news:Cs2dnV7ucfb4NUHXnZ2dnUVZ_oli4p2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote]This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch,
[/quote]
You do not specify tip size, I suspect it was too big. IMHO most people use
tips that are MUCH too big.
As always, your TIP MUST BE CLEAN and free of cutting orifice belling.
Do yourself a favor and buy a NEW small tip and keep it clean and free of
belling. My personal favorites are those with 6 very small preheaters and
designed for use with cutting machine torches, (YMMV, the low preheat can
make it easy to lose your cut if you are unsteady).
A good demonstration of a real steady cut is to have a helper preheat the
edge of the plate just to start the cut. then continue with O2 only and no
preheaters.
[quote]oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
[/quote]
Pressure required depends on hose size as well as length. Try raising O2
pressure a little, suggest ~40psi then reduce if experience shows your hand
and speed skill is capable.
[quote]My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide
[/quote]
Guides are a crutch, and have their own problems.
Learn to hold the torch steady and progress cut forward smoothly, watch the
point of the cut and avoid melting the edge of the kerf. You must have good
posture and comfortable body position with your weight well balanced on your
legs and with a minimum of weight on your elbows.
2) I
[quote]possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
[/quote]
This may be your basic perception problem, O2 torch cutting is a BURNING
process and does NOT involve melting and blowing away dross. A proper cut
will have very little dross as all the material from the kerf will be BURNED
and reduced to little balls of iron oxide on the floor with little or none
clinging to the cut or the underside.
Good luck, practice is required. |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:17 pm |
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"Ignoramus6669" <ignoramus6669 at (no spam) NOSPAM.6669.invalid> wrote in message
news:Cs2dnV7ucfb4NUHXnZ2dnUVZ_oli4p2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote]This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i
[/quote]
Size 1-1-01 Victor tip, 4# acet, 30# O2. Without being there, I can
definitely say something's wrong. Maybe the way you set the torch. Open
the acet and strike. Open it until the big floating boogers go away. Open
the O2, and come up until you have cones on the outer ring of the tips about
1/4" long. Squeeze the handle and adjust the O2 to get 1/4" or so cones.
Hit and release the handle a few times, and adjust O2 until the cones are
the same distance at both times. You want the cones not to move when you
hit the O2 handle . On acet, keep the blue cones just off the metal. On
propane, you can go farther away. The oxygen does the cutting, the gas just
heats it up.
Good luck.
Steve |
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| Bob Engelhardt... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:29 pm |
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Just putting in a "Subject" so Google Groups will find this thread more
easily. Bob |
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| fran...123... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:08 pm |
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Guest
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"Ignoramus6669" <ignoramus6669 at (no spam) NOSPAM.6669.invalid> wrote in message
news:Cs2dnV7ucfb4NUHXnZ2dnUVZ_oli4p2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote]This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i
[/quote]
Why don't you try grinding the paint off and then spend say 15 seconds going
back and forth with the preheat flames and trying again. Do you have some
number drills for cleaning the cutting orifice. Kind of looks like that is
the issue to me. You can look at the flame with the cutting oxygen
depressed and get an idea if something is less than desired. Are you sure
the tip isn't a divergent bore? It also looks like a divergent bore tip
with insufficient pressure just normal pressure for normal tip. In my
opinion 3/8 is about as easy a thickness to cut as any thin can re fuse
together and thick can take a steady hand. It isn't necessarily the guide
as how smoothly you advance is generally the issue. Maybe 20 inches per
minute for that stuff I imagine you could look up in victor's literature.
Fran |
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| fran...123... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:14 pm |
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"RoyJ" <spamless at (no spam) microsoft.net> wrote in message
news:OdGdndHtVqksNkHXnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...
.. Did I say CLEAN? File the tip flat,
[quote]use a tip cleaner, take a look at the flames out of each hole, they should
be perfectly symetrical.
[/quote]
Yes the victor tips (I have seen) are square on the end however I have
noticed some of the genuine Harris tips are sculptured so that the copper is
longer nearer the center. Acetylene tips, and the preheats angle in more
than any other brand I have stuck drills in.
Fran |
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| Martin H. Eastburn... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:43 pm |
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Not enough heat or to slow in the drag or to much moisture in the air...
or all three...
I do plasma cutting - today it was great - 5% R.H.  - I also have a
refrigerated dryer on it as well
Martin
Ignoramus6669 wrote:
[quote]This is my first, maybe second, attempt to cut something with O/A.
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/OA-Cut/
As you can see, the edge is very lousy, full of dross, and just
generally shitty looking.
I believe that this is a 3/8" thick piece of metal. This was a 250
lbs, heavy stand that I did not need and cut up for metal stock.
So, the obvious question is, what did I do wrong. This was a Victor
cutting torch, oxygen pressure was about 25 PSI, acetylene pressure 7
PSI, hose was about 50 ft long.
My first thought here is that 1) I should have used a guide 2) I
possibly should have moved faster and 3) Maybe there is some trick to
blow away the molten dross.
Any thoughts on this?
i[/quote] |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:02 pm |
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"SteveB" <oldfart at (no spam) depends.com> wrote
iggy's post and description snipped;
I'm going to try to photograph the way I (me only) adjust the torch for
cutting. It is infinitely easier to show someone than tell them. I also
have a HD video camera that I will try to make a video of, and have my
tekkie show me how to post it on line.
Steve |
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| Richard Smith... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:23 pm |
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Iggy
It's a brain-buster trying to figure how to set up an OA
cutting-torch.
What works for setting up an OA welding torch is "incomplete
knowledge" for a cutting torch. The problem with the cutting torch is
that you have the same oxygen pressure feeding both the cutting nozzle
and the oxy-acetylene preheat nozzles.
Here's my scheme.
Forget about the gauges
Set the oxygen with no flame lit - the torch acetylene and
preheat-oxygen valves are closed. Hold the cutting lever fully
squeezed and play the oxygen jet on your hand. Visualise whether the
propulsion of the jet should clear the kerf of oxide. You are not
trying to create a pyrotechnic - you want a nice smooth reacting-away
of the steel and its smooth fluid flow out of the cut.
Next - independently - set the acetylene pressure - exactly the same
as for oxy-acetylene welding by setting the torch acetylene valve
fully open and turning up the reducing valve until you have just
exceeded the pressure which gives a smoke-free acetylene-only flame
(pressure is "just higher" so you restrain back slightly on the torch
acetylene valve while still having a bit of "headroom").
Now set the preheat flame. Again you must visualise what it is you
need - the flame power. And you won't do that until you realise what
preheat does. This is about what you are achieving in the stable
cutting run. Forget about how to ignite the cut - that is the big
mistake. Think about it - you can dwell as long or as short a time on
the starting point as you need to get to ignition temperature - so
that is totally non-critical on what preheat flame you have on. What
the preheat is doing is that on the cutting run it is heating the
plate ahead of the oxygen jet to about red-heat. So you are like
running a cherry(?)-red-hot spot along the plate at cutting speed. So
- visualise the flame power you need to do that for your plate
thickness and obtain it on the torch acetylene and preheat-oxygen
valves. Now remember this is the flame you will need when the cutting
oxygen is flowing - so you must finalise the torch preheat-oxygen
valve setting while the cutting oxygen lever is squeezed.
If you think about it, the tip manufacturers are doing something a bit
clever - they design the tip so that the pressure of oxygen needed to
run the preheat flame is always a bit less than the pressure of the
oxygen cutting jet -- otherwise you'd (sometimes) end up with the
torch preheat oxygen valve fully open and still not have the ideal
oxy-acetylene flame with the "inner cone".
So, in summary
Independently set the oxygen pressure on the cutting jet required.
Independently set the acetylene pressure to get the smoke-free
acetylene-only flame
The preheat-flame oxygen is trailing as a dependent and cannot be
"set" - but everything is designed so you can get it by correctly
regulating with the torch preheat-oxygen valve.
You will obviously have to build up a map in your mind of what oxygen
jet pressure feels right for what plate thickness. And what preheat
flame is correct to give that local plate temperature for correct
ignition with the cutting oxygen jet. But when you get there (which
won't take long) you should get very clean cuts.
For long I-beams and H-columns, I used to be able to flame cut more
accurately than you got with sawing - given that the saw is never that
level and it's difficult to get the beam truly square-on to the blade
- you have straight cuts but usually at some sort of cant to the beam
axis! Whereas the oxy-acetylene cut is not machine-smooth but wipes
clean with a couple of swipes with a 9inch angle-grinder and is
square, as following chalked-on markings which are square to the beam
axis in both "cross" axes.
(In statistics and measurement terminology:
machine cut -> precise but inaccurate - systematic error.
oxy-cut -> imprecise but accurate - no systematic error)
Best wishes
Rich Smith |
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| Gunner Asch... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:03 am |
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http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Cutting-Torch
<http://books.google.com/books?id=jNxCxwp2fHoC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=how+to+adjust+a+cutting+torch+flame&source=bl&ots=aEZ3eF5LO2&sig=j0j5uiFsPdz41vUbuIW4aoJts1I&hl=en&ei=3ojdSsTWMYrWtgPv4-TcDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CCoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=how%20to%20adjust%20a%20cutting%20torch%20flame&f=false>
http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/OXY_handbook/589oxy21_1.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G603r_Ht6cU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZlcSzQSRkM&feature=related
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno |
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| Rudy... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:39 pm |
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| Gunner Asch... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:03 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:39:44 -0700, "Rudy" <NoSpam at (no spam) no-onehome.net>
wrote:
[quote]This makes a nice cut
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=8921
Ive bought several used Dewalt (yellow/black) power tools over the last[/quote]
few years. Most have failed within a very short time.
Are they all this bad, or did I simply pick used tools that were crap?
Gunner
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno |
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