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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:50 pm |
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On Nov 3, 9:11 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 1, 12:55 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
that's the feminine article, in most berber languages the -t is
repeated at the end (the original form, some loose the final -t)
the masculine article is a-
I found this:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/islas/English/v1n1-pdf/18-21.pdf
The Spanish spoken in Cuba has many Arabic words (and to a lesser
degree Berber ones) that arrived through the Spaniards, forexample:
azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar, and many more; the word ardilla and
others from the Berber.
alcoba sounds arabic though,
I think the author intended something like "many Arabic words ... for
example azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar ... and to a lesser degree
Berber words, for example ardilla." Somehow the sentence got put
through a wringer.
[/quote]
that makes sense, as the ones without the "al" are the ones that the /
l/ of the article gets assimilated to the following consonant (in
arabic with compensatory gemination), the so-called "Sun Letters". it
doesn't get for the original of alcoba.
[quote]
DGK[/quote] |
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| Harlan Messinger... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:27 pm |
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Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
that's the feminine article, in most berber languages the -t is
repeated at the end (the original form, some loose the final -t)
the masculine article is a-
I found this:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/islas/English/v1n1-pdf/18-21.pdf
The Spanish spoken in Cuba has many Arabic words (and to a lesser
degree Berber ones) that arrived through the Spaniards, forexample:
azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar, and many more; the word ardilla and
others from the Berber.
alcoba sounds arabic though,
[/quote]
"Ardilla's" Berber? The RAE's Diccionario de la lengua española thinks
its origin is uncertain. |
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| António Marques... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:12 am |
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Ruud Harmsen wrote:
[quote]Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:48:47 +0100: Ruud Harmsen<rh at (no spam) rudhar.eu>: in
sci.lang:
It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
What's more, Lorosae means "rising sun" and also "east". So "Timor
Leste Lorosae", which if I remember correctly was what Portuguese
radio liked to call the country in September 1999, is in fact "east"
three times over, in different languages.
[/quote]
'Timor-Leste-Lorosae' is not something you hear on TV now. The
portuguese usually refer to it as 'Timor', use 'Timor-Leste' if
disambiguation is needed, and 'Timor Lorosae' if the specific
contemporary timorese state is meant. Vieira de Mello awkwardly (at
least for us) referred to it as 'o Timor' the first times he talked
about it. In tetum, I suppose _Timor Lorosa'e_ is simply the way to say
'East Timor'. |
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