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| Trond Engen... |
 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:26 pm |
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Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
--
Trond Engen |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:26 pm |
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On Oct 18, 2:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[quote:6aab74640b]Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
[/quote:6aab74640b]
I have not heard of any Andalusian Berber texts. one would have
to look into spanish words that cannot be explained through
classical arabic but through the berber element in Andalusian
Arabic, and perhaps some berber elements in the few Andalusian
Arabic texts that have survived.
[quote:6aab74640b]
--
Trond Engen[/quote:6aab74640b] |
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| Douglas G. Kilday... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:19 am |
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On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[quote]Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
[/quote]
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
offhand is Portuguese <tabu'a> 'sedge, rush, reed' vel sim. (The
simplex <buda> has derivatives in Late Latin, from Augustine.) I
don't know whether *tabuda came directly from Berber or through Arabic
mediation, though.
Douglas G. Kilday |
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| Trond Engen... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:03 pm |
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Douglas G. Kilday:
[quote]On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[...] Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a linguistic element to
that designation.
[... G]iven the large Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely
that there's no linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I
can't seem to find anything about an Andalusian Berber language.
Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be
nouns starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can
think of offhand is Portuguese <tabu'a> 'sedge, rush, reed' vel sim.
(The simplex <buda> has derivatives in Late Latin, from Augustine.)
I don't know whether *tabuda came directly from Berber or through
Arabic mediation, though.
[/quote]
Since I don't even know the language there's not much I can do about
that, but I did spend some quality time with my Spanish dictionary this
afternoon. From among the words starting with <ta-> I pick
<tabarro> m. (Andalucian) "large species of wasp"
<tagarino> m. "Moor living among the Spaniards"
The former, however, seems to be related to <tabarra> f. "annoyance,
irritation", and if so, I suppose that the regional word is derived form
the one with the wider distribution. The latter wouldn't tell anything,
even if originating in Berber, since the borrowing of a self designation
could have happened anytime and anywhere. And neither of them has an
obvious doublet without the possible article <ta->.
--
Trond Engen |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:55 pm |
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On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
[/quote]
that's the feminine article, in most berber languages the -t is
repeated at the end (the original form, some loose the final -t)
the masculine article is a-
I found this:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/islas/English/v1n1-pdf/18-21.pdf
<<
The Spanish spoken in Cuba has many Arabic words (and to a lesser
degree Berber ones) that arrived through the Spaniards, forexample:
azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar, and many more; the word ardilla and
others from the Berber.
[quote]
alcoba sounds arabic though,[/quote]
[quote]offhand is Portuguese <tabu'a> 'sedge, rush, reed' vel sim. (The
simplex <buda> has derivatives in Late Latin, from Augustine.) I
don't know whether *tabuda came directly from Berber or through Arabic
mediation, though.
Douglas G. Kilday[/quote] |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:11 pm |
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On Nov 1, 1:55 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
that's the feminine article, in most berber languages the -t is
repeated at the end (the original form, some loose the final -t)
the masculine article is a-
[/quote]
for example the morrocan arabic word ata:y "tea" is from english
"tea" (refelecting an earlier pronounciation), with the berber article
a- . eastern arabic got tea from the persians and turks *sh*a:y from
*ch*a:y ; all ultimately chinese *ch*a. the english word comes from
the southern chinese dialects.
[quote]
I found this:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/islas/English/v1n1-pdf/18-21.pdf
The Spanish spoken in Cuba has many Arabic words (and to a lesser
degree Berber ones) that arrived through the Spaniards, forexample:
azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar, and many more; the word ardilla and
others from the Berber.
alcoba sounds arabic though,
offhand is Portuguese <tabu'a> 'sedge, rush, reed' vel sim. (The
simplex <buda> has derivatives in Late Latin, from Augustine.) I
don't know whether *tabuda came directly from Berber or through Arabic
mediation, though.
Douglas G. Kilday[/quote] |
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| Ruud Harmsen... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:44 am |
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Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT): Yusuf B Gursey
<ybg at (no spam) theworld.com>: in sci.lang:
[quote]On Nov 1, 1:55 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
that's the feminine article, in most berber languages the -t is
repeated at the end (the original form, some loose the final -t)
the masculine article is a-
for example the morrocan arabic word ata:y "tea" is from english
"tea" (refelecting an earlier pronounciation), with the berber article
a- . eastern arabic got tea from the persians and turks *sh*a:y from
*ch*a:y ; all ultimately chinese *ch*a. the english word comes from
the southern chinese dialects.
[/quote]
Yes. See also http://rudhar.com/lingtics/ptesdiff.htm#Note8
which explains why Spanish té and Portuguese chá are so different, per
a Portuguese TV program.
http://tinyurl.com/y8z2o5a
It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com |
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| Ruud Harmsen... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:48 am |
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(reposting after proper snipping)
Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT): Yusuf B Gursey
<ybg at (no spam) theworld.com>: in sci.lang:
[quote]for example the morrocan arabic word ata:y "tea" is from english
"tea" (refelecting an earlier pronounciation), with the berber article
a- . eastern arabic got tea from the persians and turks *sh*a:y from
*ch*a:y ; all ultimately chinese *ch*a. the english word comes from
the southern chinese dialects.
[/quote]
Yes. See also http://rudhar.com/lingtics/ptesdiff.htm#Note8
which explains why Spanish té and Portuguese chá are so different, per
a Portuguese TV program.
http://tinyurl.com/y8z2o5a
It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com |
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| Ruud Harmsen... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:16 am |
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Guest
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Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:48:47 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <rh at (no spam) rudhar.eu>: in
sci.lang:
[quote]It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
[/quote]
What's more, Lorosae means "rising sun" and also "east". So "Timor
Leste Lorosae", which if I remember correctly was what Portuguese
radio liked to call the country in September 1999, is in fact "east"
three times over, in different languages.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com |
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| Ruud Harmsen... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:18 am |
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Guest
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Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:48:47 +0100: Ruud Harmsen <rh at (no spam) rudhar.eu>: in
sci.lang:
[quote]It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
[/quote]
What's more, Lorosae means "rising sun" and also "east". So "Timor
Leste Lorosae", which if I remember correctly was what Portuguese
radio liked to call the country in September 1999, is in fact "east"
three times over, in different languages.
Ref:
http://crelorosae.no.sapo.pt/The%20learning%20centre%20lorosae.htm
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:49 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 1, 3:48 am, Ruud Harmsen <r... at (no spam) rudhar.eu> wrote:
[quote](reposting after proper snipping)
Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT): Yusuf B Gursey
y... at (no spam) theworld.com>: in sci.lang:
for example the morrocan arabic word ata:y "tea" is from english
"tea" (refelecting an earlier pronounciation), with the berber article
a- . eastern arabic got tea from the persians and turks *sh*a:y from
*ch*a:y ; all ultimately chinese *ch*a. the english word comes from
the southern chinese dialects.
Yes. See alsohttp://rudhar.com/lingtics/ptesdiff.htm#Note8
which explains why Spanish té and Portuguese chá are so different, per
a Portuguese TV program.
[/quote]
the early islamic natural philosophers of the muslim east knew about
tea (in the mandarin pronounciation), but it seems that it was an
exotic plant for them. it is speculated that it may have been spread
more in the mongol period. definite consumption of tea in Istanbul is
recorded in the 17th cent. . it became popular in the 19th cent.
middle east when local planting begun. OTOH it is recorded that
Morrocco got its tea from the British and the "ta:y" like
pronounciation is reconstructed for a coupleof hundred years or so
ago.
[quote]
http://tinyurl.com/y8z2o5a
It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
--
Ruud Harmsen,http://rudhar.com[/quote] |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:15 am |
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Guest
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On Nov 1, 2:49Â pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 1, 3:48Â am, Ruud Harmsen <r... at (no spam) rudhar.eu> wrote:
(reposting after proper snipping)
Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT): Yusuf B Gursey
y... at (no spam) theworld.com>: in sci.lang:
for example the morrocan arabic word ata:y "tea" is from english
"tea" (refelecting an earlier pronounciation), with the berber article
a- . eastern arabic got tea from the persians and turks *sh*a:y from
*ch*a:y ; all ultimately chinese *ch*a. the english word comes from
the southern chinese dialects.
Yes. See alsohttp://rudhar.com/lingtics/ptesdiff.htm#Note8
which explains why Spanish té and Portuguese chá are so different, per
a Portuguese TV program.
the early islamic natural philosophers of the muslim east knew about
tea (in the mandarin pronounciation), but it seems that it was an
exotic plant for them. it is speculated that it may have been spread
more in the mongol period. definite consumption of tea in Istanbul is
recorded in the 17th cent. . it became popular in the 19th cent.
middle east when local planting begun. OTOH it is recorded that
Morrocco got its tea from the British and the "ta:y" like
pronounciation is reconstructed for a coupleof hundred years or so
ago.
[/quote]
from Enc.of Islam II "C^ay":
<<
ÄŒay . Tea appears to be mentioned for the first time in an Arabic text
by the author of the Akhba:r al-Ṣīn wa'l-Hind (ed. and transl. by J.
Sauvaget, 1 , under the form sa:kh, whereas al-Bi:ru:ni:, Nubadh fi:
Akhba:r al-S.i:n , ed. Krenkow, in MMIA , xiii (1955), 388, calls it
more correctly djaʾ. It was introduced into Europe towards the middle
of the 16th century by the Dutch East Indies company; but it is only
in the middle of 17th century that its use spread, particularly in
England.
...
In Morocco the first mention of tea dates back to 1700. It was a
French merchant, with business contacts in the Far East, who
introduced it to the sultan Mawla:y Isma:`i:l. For a long time this
commodity remained rare and expensive. ...
In Morocco, in Mauretania, and in the departments of Oran and Algers,
the name of tea is a:ta:y. Tunisia and the department of Constantine
use ta:y.
....
The radical ta:y certainly seems to come from the English 'tea', but
with the pronunciation (tei) which this word had until about 1720,
when it rhymed in fact with 'obey' and 'pay' (cf. Yule, Hobson-Jobson,
1903, 905). It is known that it was English merchants who introduced
the use of tea in Morocco, and that for a long time they kept a
virtual monopoly on its importation.
As for the prefix a:-, which figures in western Maghribi: names, it
must represent the Berber definite article in the masculine singular.
Indeed, in Morocco and Tlemcen, its presence dispenses with the use of
the Arabic definite article. Therefore the word a:ta:y was probably
borrowed through Berber; it is established that in the 17th century
the principal centres for importation were Agadir and then Mogador,
which are situated in Berber-speaking country. ...
G.S. Colin
[quote]
[/quote]
[quote]
http://tinyurl.com/y8z2o5a
It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
--
Ruud Harmsen,http://rudhar.com[/quote] |
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| Yusuf B Gursey... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:19 pm |
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Guest
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On Nov 1, 4:15Â pm, Yusuf B Gursey <ybg at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 1, 2:49Â pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 3:48Â am, Ruud Harmsen <r... at (no spam) rudhar.eu> wrote:
(reposting after proper snipping)
Sun, 1 Nov 2009 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT): Yusuf B Gursey
y... at (no spam) theworld.com>: in sci.lang:
for example the morrocan arabic word ata:y "tea" is from english
"tea" (refelecting an earlier pronounciation), with the berber article
a- . eastern arabic got tea from the persians and turks *sh*a:y from
*ch*a:y ; all ultimately chinese *ch*a. the english word comes from
the southern chinese dialects.
Yes. See alsohttp://rudhar.com/lingtics/ptesdiff.htm#Note8
which explains why Spanish té and Portuguese chá are so different, per
a Portuguese TV program.
the early islamic natural philosophers of the muslim east knew about
tea (in the mandarin pronounciation), but it seems that it was an
exotic plant for them. it is speculated that it may have been spread
more in the mongol period. definite consumption of tea in Istanbul is
recorded in the 17th cent. . it became popular in the 19th cent.
middle east when local planting begun. OTOH it is recorded that
Morrocco got its tea from the British and the "ta:y" like
pronounciation is reconstructed for a coupleof hundred years or so
ago.
from Enc.of Islam II "C^ay":
Â
ÄŒay . Tea appears to be mentioned for the first time in an Arabic text
by the author of the Akhba:r al-Ṣīn wa'l-Hind (ed. and transl. by J.
Sauvaget, 1, under the form sa:kh, whereas al-Bi:ru:ni:, Nubadh fi:
Akhba:r al-S.i:n , ed. Krenkow, in MMIA , xiii (1955), 388, calls it
more correctly djaʾ. It was introduced into Europe towards the middle
of the 16th century by the Dutch East Indies company; but it is only
in the middle of 17th century that its use spread, particularly in
England.
 ...
In Morocco the first mention of tea dates back to 1700. It was a
French merchant, with business contacts in the Far East, who
introduced it to the sultan Mawla:y Isma:`i:l. For a long time this
commodity remained rare and expensive. ...
In Morocco, in Mauretania, and in the departments of Oran and Algers,
the name of tea is a:ta:y. Tunisia and the department of Constantine
use ta:y.
[/quote]
<<
In Libya *sh*a:hi: is found; this perhaps represents the Eastern
Arabic *sh*a:y , contaminated, by popular etymology, with the root sh-
h-w.
{ Wehr lists it for Saudi Arabia as well, *sh*ahiyy means "tasty"}
[quote]...
The radical ta:y certainly seems to come from the English 'tea', but
[/quote]
ta:y is listed as in Maghribinic word for "tea" by Wehr; for Eastern
Arabic it is *sh*a:y, the rest are colloquialisms. in Iraqi
colloquial
*sh*a:y is pronounced as in Persian.
[quote]with the pronunciation (tei) which this word had until about 1720,
when it rhymed in fact with 'obey' and 'pay' (cf. Yule, Hobson-Jobson,
1903, 905). It is known that it was English merchants who introduced
the use of tea in Morocco, and that for a long time they kept a
virtual monopoly on its importation.
As for the prefix a:-, which figures in western Maghribi: names, it
must represent the Berber definite article in the masculine singular.
Indeed, in Morocco and Tlemcen, its presence dispenses with the use of
the Arabic definite article. Therefore the word a:ta:y was probably
borrowed through Berber; it is established that in the 17th century
the principal centres for importation were Agadir and then Mogador,
which are situated in Berber-speaking country. ...
G.S. Colin
Â
http://tinyurl.com/y8z2o5a
It also explains how Timor Leste in fact means Eastern Eastland (or
"Eastland the East", the extra l being from French).
--
Ruud Harmsen,http://rudhar.com[/quote] |
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| Douglas G. Kilday... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:05 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 31, 5:03 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[quote]Douglas G. Kilday:
On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
[...] Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a linguistic element to
that designation.
[... G]iven the large Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely
that there's no linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I
can't seem to find anything about an Andalusian Berber language.
Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be
nouns starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can
think of offhand is Portuguese <tabu'a> 'sedge, rush, reed' vel sim.
(The simplex <buda> has derivatives in Late Latin, from Augustine.)
I don't know whether *tabuda came directly from Berber or through
Arabic mediation, though.
Since I don't even know the language there's not much I can do about
that, but I did spend some quality time with my Spanish dictionary this
afternoon. From among the words starting with <ta-> I pick
<tabarro> m. (Andalucian) "large species of wasp"
<tagarino> m. "Moor living among the Spaniards"
The former, however, seems to be related to <tabarra> f. "annoyance,
irritation", and if so, I suppose that the regional word is derived form
the one with the wider distribution. The latter wouldn't tell anything,
even if originating in Berber, since the borrowing of a self designation
could have happened anytime and anywhere. And neither of them has an
obvious doublet without the possible article <ta->.
[/quote]
I found only one Spanish word of this type which the RAE states to be
from Berber, <tagarnina> 'golden thistle', itself said to be a loan
from Arabic <karni:n>, from Greek <a'karna> 'milk-thistle'. Slim
pickings indeed. If I actually knew any Berber, it would be an easier
task to recognize loanwords WITHOUT one of the articles.
DGK |
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| Douglas G. Kilday... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:11 pm |
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On Nov 1, 12:55 am, Yusuf B Gursey <y... at (no spam) theworld.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl... at (no spam) chorus.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 1:26 pm, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
Following a trail from a Language Log post on polymaths I ran across the
9th century scientist Ibn Firnas and the 12th century scientist Ibn
Rushd. They are both said to be Andalusian Berbers. I suppose there's a
linguistic element to that designation.
A few months ago I read something to the effect that modern North
African immigration can be seen as part of an unbroken tradition of
cross-strait contact, and that Berber languages have been spoken on the
Iberian peninsula ever since the Umayyad invasion of 711.
The latter is an exaggeration, or so it seems, but given the large
Berber element in Al-Andalus it seems unlikely that there's no
linguistic trace of their everyday speech. But I can't seem to find
anything about an Andalusian Berber language. Does anyone know?
For traces of the language, the first thing to look for would be nouns
starting with the Berber article <ta->. The only one I can think of
that's the feminine article, in most berber languages the -t is
repeated at the end (the original form, some loose the final -t)
the masculine article is a-
I found this:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/islas/English/v1n1-pdf/18-21.pdf
The Spanish spoken in Cuba has many Arabic words (and to a lesser
degree Berber ones) that arrived through the Spaniards, forexample:
azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar, and many more; the word ardilla and
others from the Berber.
alcoba sounds arabic though,
[/quote]
I think the author intended something like "many Arabic words ... for
example azotea, alcoba, aduana, azucar ... and to a lesser degree
Berber words, for example ardilla." Somehow the sentence got put
through a wringer.
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