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Message |
| I M at (no spam) good guy... |
 Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:05 pm |
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Guest
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Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without
GreenHouse Gases and attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water
either, so most of the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface
would be just hot in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present. |
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| gordo... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:35 pm |
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Guest
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On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:05:25 -0400, "I M at (no spam) good guy" <I_m at (no spam) good.guy>
wrote:
[quote:522d2c1be6]
Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without
GreenHouse Gases and attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water
either, so most of the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface
would be just hot in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
so where is your science and whats your point?[/quote:522d2c1be6] |
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| Will Hand... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:14 am |
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Guest
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Very interesting thanks. Copy saved.
Will
-- |
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| Tom P... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:56 am |
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Guest
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I M at (no spam) good guy wrote:
[quote:5355e11878]
Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without
GreenHouse Gases and attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water
either, so most of the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface
would be just hot in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
Houghton, "The physics of atmospheres", ISBN 0 521 33956 1, 2nd edition,[/quote:5355e11878]
published 1986, discusses this on page 4. |
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| Tom P... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:18 am |
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Guest
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Tom P wrote:
[quote:f932ab4b1a]I M at (no spam) good guy wrote:
Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without GreenHouse Gases and
attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water either, so most of
the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface would be just hot
in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
[/quote:f932ab4b1a]
Wrong. Read up any textbook on atmospheric physics, or google
adiabatic+lapse+rate.
[quote:f932ab4b1a]Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
Houghton, "The physics of atmospheres", ISBN 0 521 33956 1, 2nd edition,
published 1986, discusses this on page 4.
[/quote:f932ab4b1a] |
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| Graham P Davis... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:22 am |
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Guest
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I M at (no spam) good guy wrote:
[quote:5ec9787b1f]Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without
GreenHouse Gases and attempt some math?
[/quote:5ec9787b1f]
Svante Arrhenius. And he did it over a century ago.
If I remember correctly, I think he worked out that the average temperature
of the Earth would be -40 with no CO2. Of course, he also worked out the
rise in global temperatures associated with increases in CO2. He was not too
worried about humans increasing the amount of CO2 and the consequent GW as
he believed the rate of increase would be too slow and would allow for
absorption by the oceans. I think he didn't believe a doubling of CO2 would
happen for 3,000 years.
--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK. E-mail: newsman not newsboy
"I wear the cheese. It does not wear me." |
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| Leonard Pulver Sr.... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:40 am |
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Guest
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Tom P wrote
[quote:d73801c767]Wrong. Read up any textbook on atmospheric physics, or google
adiabatic+lapse+rate.
[/quote:d73801c767]
If I held you down and force fed you carbon dioxide, would you become a flower?
A flower?
If you go down to Willow Farm,
to look for butterflies, flutterbyes, gutterflies
Open your eyes, it's full of surprise, everyone lies,
like the focks on the rocks,
and the musical box.
Oh, there's Mum & Dad, and good and bad,
and everyone's happy to be here.
There's Winston Churchill dressed in drag,
he used to be a British flag, plastic bag, what a drag.
The frog was a prince, the prince was a brick, the brick was an egg,
the egg was a bird.
(Fly away you sweet little thing, they're hard on your tail)
Hadn't you heard?
(They're going to change you into a human being!)
Yes, we're happy as fish and gorgeous as geese,
and wonderfully clean in the morning.
We've got everything, we're growing everything,
We've got some in
We've got some out
We've got some wild things floating about
Everyone, we're changing everyone,
you name them all,
We've had them here,
And the real stars are still to appear.
ALL CHANGE!
Feel your body melt;
Mum to mud to mad to dad
Dad diddley office, Dad diddley office,
You're all full of ball.
Dad to dam to dum to mum
Mum diddley washing, Mum diddley washing,
You're all full of ball.
Let me hear you lies, we're living this up to the eyes.
Ooee-ooee-ooee-oowaa
Momma I want you now.
And as you listen to my voice
To look for hidden doors, tidy floors, more applause.
You've been here all the time,
Like it or not, like what you got,
You're under the soil (the soil, the soil),
Yes, deep in the soil (the soil, the soil, the soil!).
So we'll end with a whistle and end with a bang
and all of us fit in our places.
With the guards of Magog, swarming around,
The Pied Piper takes his children underground.
Dragons coming out of the sea,
Shimmering silver head of wisdom looking at me.
He brings down the fire from the skies,
You can tell he's doing well by the look in human eyes.
Better not compromise.
It won't be easy.
666 is no longer alone,
He's getting out the marrow in your back bone,
And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll,
Gonna blow right down inside your soul.
Pythagoras with the looking glass reflects the full moon,
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
And it's hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue,
Hey my baby, don't you know our love is true,
I've been so far from here,
Far from your loving arms,
Now I'm back again, and babe it's gonna work out fine.
Can't you feel our souls ignite
Shedding ever changing colours,
in the darkness of the fading night,
Like the river joins the ocean,
as the germ in a seed grows
We have finally been freed to get back home.
There's an angel standing in the sun,
and he's crying with a loud voice,
"This is the supper of the mighty one",
Lord of Lords,
King of Kings,
Has returned to lead his children home,
To take them to the new Jerusalem. |
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| Leonard Pulver Sr.... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:43 am |
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Guest
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Leonard Pulver Sr. wrote
[quote:a4ffde9477]
Tom P wrote
Wrong. Read up any textbook on atmospheric physics, or google
adiabatic+lapse+rate.
If I held you down and force fed you carbon dioxide, would you become a flower?
A flower?
If you go down to Willow Farm,
to look for butterflies, flutterbyes, gutterflies
Open your eyes, it's full of surprise, everyone lies,
like the focks on the rocks,
and the musical box.
Oh, there's Mum & Dad, and good and bad,
and everyone's happy to be here.
There's Winston Churchill dressed in drag,
he used to be a British flag, plastic bag, what a drag.
The frog was a prince, the prince was a brick, the brick was an egg,
the egg was a bird.
(Fly away you sweet little thing, they're hard on your tail)
Hadn't you heard?
(They're going to change you into a human being!)
Yes, we're happy as fish and gorgeous as geese,
and wonderfully clean in the morning.
We've got everything, we're growing everything,
We've got some in
We've got some out
We've got some wild things floating about
Everyone, we're changing everyone,
you name them all,
We've had them here,
And the real stars are still to appear.
ALL CHANGE!
Feel your body melt;
Mum to mud to mad to dad
Dad diddley office, Dad diddley office,
You're all full of ball.
Dad to dam to dum to mum
Mum diddley washing, Mum diddley washing,
You're all full of ball.
Let me hear you lies, we're living this up to the eyes.
Ooee-ooee-ooee-oowaa
Momma I want you now.
And as you listen to my voice
To look for hidden doors, tidy floors, more applause.
You've been here all the time,
Like it or not, like what you got,
You're under the soil (the soil, the soil),
Yes, deep in the soil (the soil, the soil, the soil!).
So we'll end with a whistle and end with a bang
and all of us fit in our places.
With the guards of Magog, swarming around,
The Pied Piper takes his children underground.
Dragons coming out of the sea,
Shimmering silver head of wisdom looking at me.
He brings down the fire from the skies,
You can tell he's doing well by the look in human eyes.
Better not compromise.
It won't be easy.
666 is no longer alone,
He's getting out the marrow in your back bone,
And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll,
Gonna blow right down inside your soul.
Pythagoras with the looking glass reflects the full moon,
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune.
And it's hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue,
Hey my baby, don't you know our love is true,
I've been so far from here,
Far from your loving arms,
Now I'm back again, and babe it's gonna work out fine.
Can't you feel our souls ignite
Shedding ever changing colours,
in the darkness of the fading night,
Like the river joins the ocean,
as the germ in a seed grows
We have finally been freed to get back home.
There's an angel standing in the sun,
and he's crying with a loud voice,
"This is the supper of the mighty one",
Lord of Lords,
King of Kings,
Has returned to lead his children home,
To take them to the new Jerusalem.
[/quote:a4ffde9477]
Lyrics by Peter Gabriel, and rythmn in 4:4 time. |
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| Harry King... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:09 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 17, 12:28 pm, "Yokel" <yokelstevie-gro... at (no spam) btinternet.com>
wrote:
[quote:40fea9af0c]"Leonard Pulver Sr." <last_thin... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:MPG.254369d51efb0c6a989d0d at (no spam) news.x-privat.org...
| Leonard Pulver Sr. wrote
|
| > Tom P wrote
| > > Wrong. Read up any textbook on atmospheric physics, or google
| > > adiabatic+lapse+rate.
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| > If I held you down and force fed you carbon dioxide, would you become a
flower?
|
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| > A flower?
|
| > If you go down to Willow Farm...
|
|
| Lyrics by Peter Gabriel, and rythmn in 4:4 time.
|
Which raises the question. Did the greenhouse gases come before or after
Genesis?
--
- Yokel -
"Yokel" posts via a spam-trap account which is not read.
[/quote:40fea9af0c]
Jesus inhaled before he exhaled.
So, there you go. |
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| Yokel... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:28 am |
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Guest
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"Leonard Pulver Sr." <last_thinker at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.254369d51efb0c6a989d0d at (no spam) news.x-privat.org...
| Leonard Pulver Sr. wrote
| >
| > Tom P wrote
| > > Wrong. Read up any textbook on atmospheric physics, or google
| > > adiabatic+lapse+rate.
| > >
| >
| > If I held you down and force fed you carbon dioxide, would you become a
flower?
| >
| >
| > A flower?
| >
| > If you go down to Willow Farm...
|
|
| Lyrics by Peter Gabriel, and rythmn in 4:4 time.
|
Which raises the question. Did the greenhouse gases come before or after
Genesis?
--
- Yokel -
"Yokel" posts via a spam-trap account which is not read. |
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| I M at (no spam) good guy... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:24 am |
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Guest
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On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:56:14 +0200, Tom P <werotizy at (no spam) freent.dd> wrote:
[quote:5305aa1b8d]I M at (no spam) good guy wrote:
Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without
GreenHouse Gases and attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water
either, so most of the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface
would be just hot in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
Houghton, "The physics of atmospheres", ISBN 0 521 33956 1, 2nd edition,
published 1986, discusses this on page 4.
[/quote:5305aa1b8d]
And?
If he said anything that doesn't support AGW,
would you say so?
What this boils down to, is how many "scientists"
are willing to say nothing and allow the myth that "without
GreenHouse Gases the Earth would be 33 degrees colder"
to continue.
And if that myth is exposed, what will happen to
some of the other gossip and rumors?
I ask again, how many care nothing about truth
in science, and are willing to just ignore the error in
the parroted gossip about all the moderation of the
atmospheric temperatures of Earth being the result
of GreenHouse Gases.
How many parrots don't even understand the
physics? |
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| Last Post... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:57 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 17, 12:05 am, "I M at (no spam) good guy" <I... at (no spam) good.guy> wrote:
[quote:18e7b145e9] The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
[/quote:18e7b145e9]
•• Without CO2 it would be a barren desert
Why Carbon Dioxide is Absolutely Essential
to Life on Earth From Wikipedia
Photosynthesis is the process by which plants
produce organic compounds and oxygen from
carbon dioxide and water.
Photosynthesis is a process that converts carbon
dioxide into organic compounds, especially
sugars, using the energy from sunlight.
Photosynthesis occurs in plants, algae, and many
species of bacteria. All use water and carbon
dioxide as initial substrates and release oxygen as
a waste product.
Carbon occupies a special place on the periodic
table of elements and has the unique ability to
form chains with other carbon atoms. Those
bonds give it the unique ability to store large
amounts of energy in its bonds, and to release that
energy, in a relatively stable, controllable way.
From these chains of carbon, plants form energy-
containing carbohydrates, such as sugar and oils,
and structural carbohydrates called cellulose,
which gives plants their rigidity and allows them
to grow tall without falling over. Heterotrophic
organisms, such as animals, depend on those
organic compounds. Therefore, photosynthesis
is crucially important for life on Earth. As well as
maintaining the normal level of oxygen in the
atmosphere, nearly all life either depends on it
directly as a source of energy, or indirectly as the
ultimate source of the energy in their food.
– –
Either way short term or long term the data
doesn't support man made global warming?
short term
http://junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/RSSglobe.html
long term
http://junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Moberg2005l.htm |
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| Last Post... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:13 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 17, 4:56 am, Tom P <werot... at (no spam) freent.dd> wrote:
[quote:99b2bd1288]I M at (no spam) good guy wrote:
Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without
GreenHouse Gases and attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water
either, so most of the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface
would be just hot in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
Houghton, "The physics of atmospheres", ISBN 0 521 33956 1, 2nd edition,
published 1986, discusses this on page 4.
[/quote:99b2bd1288]
•• I have not read "Houghton" but you never
seem to get it right so the the answer to the
proposition must be very simple and it is:—
•• The globe would be a barren desert. <GG>
Why Carbon Dioxide is Absolutely Essential
to Life on Earth - Wikipedia
Photosynthesis is the process by which plants
produce organic compounds and oxygen from
carbon dioxide and water.
Photosynthesis is a process that converts carbon
dioxide into organic compounds, especially
sugars, using the energy from sunlight.
Photosynthesis occurs in plants, algae, and many
species of bacteria. All use water and carbon
dioxide as initial substrates and release oxygen as
a waste product.
Carbon occupies a special place on the periodic
table of elements and has the unique ability to
form chains with other carbon atoms. Those
bonds give it the unique ability to store large
amounts of energy in its bonds, and to release that
energy, in a relatively stable, controllable way.
From these chains of carbon, plants form energy-
containing carbohydrates, such as sugar and oils,
and structural carbohydrates called cellulose,
which gives plants their rigidity and allows them
to grow tall without falling over. Heterotrophic
organisms, such as animals, depend on those
organic compounds. Therefore, photosynthesis
is crucially important for life on Earth. As well as
maintaining the normal level of oxygen in the
atmosphere, nearly all life either depends on it
directly as a source of energy, or indirectly as the
ultimate source of the energy in their food.
– –
Either way short term or long term the data
doesn't support man made global warming?
short term
http://junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/RSSglobe.html
long term
http://junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/Moberg2005l.htm |
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| leonard78sp at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:56 pm |
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Guest
|
On Oct 17, 7:36 pm, Tom P <werot... at (no spam) freent.dd> wrote:
[quote:75475e7bea]Leonard wrote:
On 10/17/09 6:24 PM, in article sggkd59lo57b97thn6eef9i2332ggqm... at (no spam) 4ax.com,
"I M at (no spam) good guy" <I... at (no spam) good.guy> wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:57:22 -0700 (PDT), Last Post
last_p... at (no spam) primus.ca> wrote:
On Oct 17, 12:05 am, "I M at (no spam) good guy" <I... at (no spam) good.guy> wrote:
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
€€ Without CO2 it would be a barren desert
A nonsensical statement, obviously without
water or carbon, life as we know it would not exist,
that isn't the issue in atmospheric physics.
€€ In otherwords atmospheric physics has no
connection with reality. How stupid can you get?
Atmospheric physics describes the atmospheres of other planets, not just
the earth.
[/quote:75475e7bea]
•• But we only live on earth and why do you think
the subject is "The Earth Without GreenHouse
Gases"? Stick with the subject stupid.
•• If you want to discuss "atmospheric physics"
start a new thread on a suitable subject and do
it on sci.physics. It is off topic on SE. |
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| I M at (no spam) good guy... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:42 pm |
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On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:18:24 +0200, Tom P <werotizy at (no spam) freent.dd> wrote:
[quote:0f5a351d98]Tom P wrote:
I M at (no spam) good guy wrote:
Who has the gumption to discuss the Earth without GreenHouse Gases and
attempt some math?
Without GreenHouse Gases means no water either, so most of
the surface would be rock, maybe
with fine sand due to the N2 and O2 winds.
The hill and mountain sides in sunlight would
have a considerable updraft, and those in the shade
would have a downdraft. But much of the surface would be just hot
in sunlight with convection.
Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the atmosphere
would be warmed by the sun, and would have
very little cooling, mainly on the shaded sides
of slopes and those where the sun never shines.
This dispells the parroted myth that the
Earth would have temperatures like the moon
without GreenHouse Gases.
It might be interesting to determine if
there would be any lapse rate at all, since
warm air rises, and there would be less or
no cooling in the upper atmosphere.
Wrong.
[/quote:0f5a351d98]
What do you mean , wrong, I said it would
be interesting to determine, obviously there would
be a temperature gradient due to cooling by expansion,
but as more warmer air rises, thermal energy would
be added, possibly causing an inversion.
[quote:0f5a351d98]Read up any textbook on atmospheric physics, or google
adiabatic+lapse+rate.
[/quote:0f5a351d98]
Why do you think a discussion of existing atmosphere
physics would apply to an N2 and O2 atmosphere without
GreenHouse Gases?
I'm sorry to say, that is the reason for the gossip
spreading the myth, everybody is afraid to use their
brain, why rock the boat, it is easier to just agree and
fit in with the crowd, no matter how clueless they are.
[quote:0f5a351d98]Any surface magma or lava would cause
the air to warm more, and much of the surface
might be rather warm without the oceans to
cool the molten rock.
Of course there would be no hydrocarbons,
so there would be no hydrocarbon life, although
the air temperatures would definitely be warmer
than in some regions where Eskimo make their
home.
Since there would be no clouds, the energy
reaching the surface would be much greater.
Is anybody willing to guess what the air
temperature would be at noon, or at sunrise?
The lack of a discussion of some aspect
of this conjecture and the almost word for word
statements about "The GreenHouse Effect
warms the Earth about 33 degrees, without it,
the Earth would not support life" shows that
far too many people simply do not think for
themselves.
The Earth without GreenHouse Gases
would be quite warm, possibly having an
average temperature warmer than at present.
Houghton, "The physics of atmospheres", ISBN 0 521 33956 1, 2nd edition,
published 1986, discusses this on page 4.
[/quote:0f5a351d98]
Amazon has some at low cost, but I seriously
doubt if it would be worth my waiting for it, applied
physics rarely goes into detail on hypothetical
situations.
An Earth without either hydrogen or carbon
would be so totally different, there has to be a
reason to think about it, and AGW or even the
increasing CO2 concentration demands every
possible study of what greenhouse theory is
all about.
The N2 and the O2 atmosphere is such
a huge heat sink, it is what retains the heat of
the sun for days at a time, while GHGs can
radiate far too fast with very little storage ability.
The situation is so bad, I have to wonder
what the required courses are for a climate degree,
it seems to me many if not most geologists are
at odds with a lot of the alarmism.
You seem to thrive on it. |
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