 |
|
| Science Forum Index » Space - History Forum » LCROSS Impact coverage E-... |
|
Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next |
|
| Author |
Message |
| Dr.Colon Oscopy... |
 Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:16 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Bummer. Reminded me of the Huygens lander coverage from ESA. I
couldn't get NASA channel coverage so I recorded ABC and CNN. Amidst
news banners proclaming "Nasa shoots missle at moon" and "Nasa bombs
the moon" The waiting was a killer and at near the moment of impact
somebody (NASA moron) switches to a "Infrared" image upon which I lost
all reference (and there was no narrative from studio (as if they
would know) or NASA) and the moment passed. I can except the lack of
visual fireworks but giving no backup visual reference or narrative of
what the video feed was showing AND switching to a totally lost
infrared display at or near impact was beyond comprehension. (Diane
Sawyer, NOT a rocket scientist, on the recording says it all when she
says "Hmmmmmmmmmmm)) NASA needs better and more in tune PR people.
Piss poor on my side.............Doc |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Dr.Colon Oscopy... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:49 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Oct 9, 2:13 pm, Pat Flannery <flan... at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:> Dr.Colon
Oscopy wrote: I> > couldn't get NASA channel coverage so I recorded
ABC and CNN.> > The little brunette ditz on CNN and her telescope-
penis joke were a good> reminder why I am watching less-and-less TV
these days.> Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no
ejecta plume> observed by anyone and the spectrum of the impact flash
showing sodium> for some reason.> >
Pat-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has CNN left the "science anchor" thing for a Foxified version of
technical reporting on space?. Almost makes me wish for the Miles
Obrien teledrawing days. Hell ,bring on Soledad , she's got it all!.
(En mi cabesa yo tengo es mas grande ciudad!) tWhat baffles me now
about LCROSS is that a week or two ago they published a better look
see at the A11 landing site anda that time said future shots would be
"2 or 3 times better" Since then I've seen nothing and I've been
watching the releases pretty closely. Are we done with the landing
site releases? Did anybody else expect higher quality releases of
the landing sites. Just wondering.........Doc |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Rick Jones... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:10 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:
[quote:aa7e7220da]Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone
[/quote:aa7e7220da]
Centaur fell down went crumple on solid rock?
rick jones
--
The glass is neither half-empty nor half-full. The glass has a leak.
The real question is "Can it be patched?"
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... 
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Rick Jones... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:07 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Derek Lyons <fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:b4bab7ab0b]Rick Jones <rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote:
Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:
Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone
Centaur fell down went crumple on solid rock?
Unless we are *very* wrong about lunar and solar system evolution,
there shouldn't be any such thing. On top of explaining how we
missed what would have had to have been enormous and quite visible
areas of bare rock visible elsewhere on the moon.
[/quote:b4bab7ab0b]
Well, it is *far* more likely that I'm very wrong but does it have
to have been an "enormous" area of bare rock? BTW, I'd also include
reasonably large boulders or outcroppings where "reasonable" would be
"more or less larger than a centaur. Apart from the engine, at the
time of impact the Centaur is basically "just" a giant beer can right?
Was there orientation control of the Centaur prior to impact? I'm
wondering if it hit "head on" against a large boulder if it would just
crumple up and the nice hard engine bell not have a chance to hit
anything other than crumpled fuel tank.
How "hard" is Lunar Basalt?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt#Lunar_and_Martian_basalt
rick jones
--
I don't interest myself in "why". I think more often in terms of
"when", sometimes "where"; always "how much." - Joubert
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Pat Flannery... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:13 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Dr.Colon Oscopy wrote: I
[quote:50fb153627]couldn't get NASA channel coverage so I recorded ABC and CNN.
[/quote:50fb153627]
The little brunette ditz on CNN and her telescope-penis joke were a good
reminder why I am watching less-and-less TV these days.
Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone and the spectrum of the impact flash showing sodium
for some reason.
Pat |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Rick Jones... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:17 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Damon Hill <damon1SIX1 at (no spam) comcast.netnet> wrote:
[quote:ec92d33b87]Rick Jones <rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote in news:hao8mi$urt$5
at (no spam) usenet01.boi.hp.com:
Well, it is *far* more likely that I'm very wrong but does it
have to have been an "enormous" area of bare rock? BTW, I'd also
include reasonably large boulders or outcroppings where
"reasonable" would be "more or less larger than a centaur. Apart
from the engine, at the time of impact the Centaur is basically
"just" a giant beer can right? Was there orientation control of
the Centaur prior to impact? I'm wondering if it hit "head on"
against a large boulder if it would just crumple up and the nice
hard engine bell not have a chance to hit anything other than
crumpled fuel tank.
At several thousand MPH, a crumpled ball of paper would be the
equivalent of an armor-piercing round.
[/quote:ec92d33b87]
Fair enough.
[quote:ec92d33b87]A couple of tons of metal is going to make a hell of a bang and
throw regolith around. It seemed to be coming in at a pretty
shallow angle; possibly the resulting fragments skipped?
[/quote:ec92d33b87]
Crashed through the top of a lava tube/dome?
rick jones
--
Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Rick Jones... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:41 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
rwalker <rwalker at (no spam) despammed.com> wrote:
[quote:a9fbb0f70a]Despite no visible plume, NASA seems satisfied with the outcome:
[/quote:a9fbb0f70a]
[quote:a9fbb0f70a]http://tiny.cc/MTIMr
NASA's Lunar LCROSS Mission A Success, Scientists Now Analyzing Data
October 9, 2009 3:38 p.m. EST
...
Views and technical observation detailed that the highly tauted
[/quote:a9fbb0f70a]
I'm sure that things were very tense but were they actually taut?-)
Although, I'm probably not one to be touting grammar issues...
rick jones
--
web2.0 n, the dot.com reunion tour...
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Pat Flannery... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:09 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Dr.Colon Oscopy wrote: tWhat baffles me now
[quote:f855b0a757]about LCROSS is that a week or two ago they published a better look
see at the A11 landing site anda that time said future shots would be
"2 or 3 times better" Since then I've seen nothing and I've been
watching the releases pretty closely. Are we done with the landing
site releases? Did anybody else expect higher quality releases of
the landing sites. Just wondering.........Doc
[/quote:f855b0a757]
Could it simply be due to orbital dynamics in regards to where LRO
passes over on the Moon? At its orbital altitude it's going to have to
pass almost directly over the landing sites to image them.
Also, I don't think LRO is yet in its final low circular orbit, so
altitude as it passes over various objects on the Moon's surface will
vary, resulting in higher or lower image resolution.
I just went over to their website, and they've got a nice image of the
Apollo-12/Surveyor-3 up:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/383351main_apollo12_label_full.jpg
....on that one you can see the path the astronauts walked around the
landing site.
Pat |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Derek Lyons... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:47 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Rick Jones <rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote:
[quote:96f56c2a56]Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:
Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone
Centaur fell down went crumple on solid rock?
[/quote:96f56c2a56]
Unless we are *very* wrong about lunar and solar system evolution,
there shouldn't be any such thing. On top of explaining how we missed
what would have had to have been enormous and quite visible areas of
bare rock visible elsewhere on the moon.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Damon Hill... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:36 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Rick Jones <rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote in news:hao8mi$urt$5
at (no spam) usenet01.boi.hp.com:
[quote:2acd49d63f]Well, it is *far* more likely that I'm very wrong but does it have
to have been an "enormous" area of bare rock? BTW, I'd also include
reasonably large boulders or outcroppings where "reasonable" would be
"more or less larger than a centaur. Apart from the engine, at the
time of impact the Centaur is basically "just" a giant beer can right?
Was there orientation control of the Centaur prior to impact? I'm
wondering if it hit "head on" against a large boulder if it would just
crumple up and the nice hard engine bell not have a chance to hit
anything other than crumpled fuel tank.
[/quote:2acd49d63f]
At several thousand MPH, a crumpled ball of paper would be the
equivalent of an armor-piercing round. A couple of tons of metal
is going to make a hell of a bang and throw regolith around.
It seemed to be coming in at a pretty shallow angle; possibly the
resulting fragments skipped?
Bit of a mystery there, for the moment.
--Damon |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| rwalker... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:33 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:10:27 +0000 (UTC), Rick Jones
<rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote:
[quote:cf228507f1]Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:
Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone
Centaur fell down went crumple on solid rock?
rick jones
[/quote:cf228507f1]
Despite no visible plume, NASA seems satisfied with the outcome:
http://tiny.cc/MTIMr
NASA's Lunar LCROSS Mission A Success, Scientists Now Analyzing Data
October 9, 2009 3:38 p.m. EST
--- Advertisment ---
Ayinde O. Chase - AHN Editor
Moffett Field, CA (AHN) - NASA's Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing
Satellite, or LCROSS, successfully reached its target, the moon. Early
Friday morning LCROSS slammed into the surface creating twin impacts
aiding in a search for water ice.
Anthony Colaprete, principal investigator for the LCROSS mission
revealed during a press conference that any number of things could
have gone wrong resulting in no data. For instance, the spacecraft
could've not hit in the right place; instruments could've not worked.
Admittedly scientists across the globe knew the challenges that
existed, however everything worked.
Scientists on Earth now are tasked with analyzing the data from the
spacecraft's instruments to ascertain whether water is present.
"This is a great day for science and exploration," said Doug Cooke,
associate administrator for the Exploration Systems Mission
Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "The LCROSS data
should prove to be an impressive addition to the tremendous leaps in
knowledge about the moon that have been achieved in recent weeks. I
want to congratulate the LCROSS team for their tremendous achievement
in development of this low cost spacecraft and for their perseverance
through a number of difficult technical and operational challenges."?
Views and technical observation detailed that the highly tauted
visible plume of debris that NASA had predicted to rise miles above
the lunar surface was not visible on images sent from the LCROSS probe
or ground-based telescopes.
However, scientists were unable to hide their exuberance at the
priceless continuous flow of information and valuable data, including
intriguing "blips" in spectroscopic analysis of the vapors produced by
impact.
According to NASA the satellite which was part of a controversial
mission traveled 5.6 million miles during a historic 113-day mission.
Researchers say that its final destination was the Cabeus crater, a
permanently shadowed region near the moon's south pole.
"The LCROSS science instruments worked exceedingly well and returned a
wealth of data that will greatly improve our understanding of our
closest celestial neighbor," said Colaprete, LCROSS principal
investigator and project scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center in
Moffett Field, Calif. "The team is excited to dive into data."
In preparation for impact, LCROSS and its spent Centaur upper stage
rocket separated about 54,000 miles above the surface of the moon on
Thursday at approximately 6:50 p.m. PDT.
Traveling at a speed of more than 1.5 miles per second, the Centaur
hit the lunar surface shortly after 4:31 a.m. Oct. 9, creating an
impact that instruments aboard LCROSS observed for approximately four
minutes. LCROSS then impacted the surface at approximately 4:36 a.m.
The LCROSS team expects it to take several weeks of analysis before it
can make a definitive assessment of the presence or absence of water.
Read more:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7016647839?NASA's%20Lunar%20LCROSS%20Mission%20A%20Sucess,%20Scientists%20Now%20Analyzing%20Data#ixzz0TU5sqJ5R |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Derek Lyons... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:48 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Rick Jones <rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote:
[quote:409f203b20]Derek Lyons <fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Rick Jones <rick.jones at (no spam) hp.com> wrote:
Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:
Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone
Centaur fell down went crumple on solid rock?
Unless we are *very* wrong about lunar and solar system evolution,
there shouldn't be any such thing. On top of explaining how we
missed what would have had to have been enormous and quite visible
areas of bare rock visible elsewhere on the moon.
Well, it is *far* more likely that I'm very wrong but does it have
to have been an "enormous" area of bare rock?
[/quote:409f203b20]
Because if there is bare rock at the LCROSS impact site, there will
also be bare rock across other areas of the moon.
[quote:409f203b20]Apart from the engine, at the
time of impact the Centaur is basically "just" a giant beer can right?
Was there orientation control of the Centaur prior to impact? I'm
wondering if it hit "head on" against a large boulder if it would just
crumple up and the nice hard engine bell not have a chance to hit
anything other than crumpled fuel tank.
[/quote:409f203b20]
At the speeds involved - there isn't any 'crumpling', attitude is
irrelevant.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Jorge R. Frank... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:58 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Dr.Colon Oscopy wrote:
[quote:5619f881ed]On Oct 9, 2:13 pm, Pat Flannery <flan... at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:> Dr.Colon
Oscopy wrote: I> > couldn't get NASA channel coverage so I recorded
ABC and CNN.> > The little brunette ditz on CNN and her telescope-
penis joke were a good> reminder why I am watching less-and-less TV
these days.> Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no
ejecta plume> observed by anyone and the spectrum of the impact flash
showing sodium> for some reason.
Pat-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has CNN left the "science anchor" thing for a Foxified version of
technical reporting on space?. Almost makes me wish for the Miles
Obrien teledrawing days. Hell ,bring on Soledad , she's got it all!.
(En mi cabesa yo tengo es mas grande ciudad!) tWhat baffles me now
about LCROSS is that a week or two ago they published a better look
see at the A11 landing site anda that time said future shots would be
"2 or 3 times better" Since then I've seen nothing and I've been
watching the releases pretty closely. Are we done with the landing
site releases? Did anybody else expect higher quality releases of
the landing sites. Just wondering.........Doc
[/quote:5619f881ed]
Sigh. OK, let me spell it out for you, real slowly.
LRO is in a lunar polar orbit. Way back when, Newton figured out that
orbit planes are inertially stable. So LRO orbits in a fixed plane while
the moon rotates under it. The moon rotates slow. Real slow. As in once
per month slow. So for near equatorial sites like the Apollo landings,
LRO will only be able to photograph a given site once per month. So if
you saw those Apollo 11 photos 1-2 weeks ago, it's gonna be another 2-3
weeks before they can photograph it again.
You're welcome. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Pat Flannery... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:08 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Rick Jones wrote:
[quote:0247cb263f]Pat Flannery <flanner at (no spam) daktel.com> wrote:
Anyway, the preliminary results are baffling, with no ejecta plume
observed by anyone
Centaur fell down went crumple on solid rock?
[/quote:0247cb263f]
That would be something if it just accordioned on impact, and what's
sitting there now is a big flat disc with some RL10's sticking out of
its top. 
The only two things I can think of right off the top of my head would be
that it hit solid rock with nothing atop it that could be blown into a
debris cloud, or exactly the reverse... that it hit something so soft
that it went right on through and ended up deep underground, like it had
sunk into the dread deep lunar dust of 1950's science fiction.
I always liked how Korolev got around concerns about the lunar dust when
designing the first Soviet moon lander probes; when concerns arose about
how to best design the probes, and whether the surface was solid or
covered in dust, he sent this statement to the design team: "The surface
of the Moon is solid. - Korolev.", and that was that.
There's a news story on the impact here, showing the "Comet Kohoutek"
of impact flashes: http://spaceflightnow.com/lcross/091009impact/
....I think we got spoiled by Deep Impact and its debris cloud...that was
really something.
Apparently LRO did detect some sort of impact ejecta plume, thought I
haven't seen any details of that yet.
Pat |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Pat Flannery... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:15 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Derek Lyons wrote:
[quote:5a07fefecb]Unless we are *very* wrong about lunar and solar system evolution,
there shouldn't be any such thing. On top of explaining how we missed
what would have had to have been enormous and quite visible areas of
bare rock visible elsewhere on the moon.
[/quote:5a07fefecb]
Unless it hit a protruding boulder in the crater; the Apollo landings
showed some boulders that had very little lunar dust atop them:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moon-apollo17-schmitt_boulder.jpg
Pat |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:22 pm
|
|