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| Jan Drew... |
 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:26 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 11, 3:13�pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit... at (no spam) UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
[quote:53e5434fb0]"Mark Thorson" <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4AD228D2.C51B845A at (no spam) sonic.net...
"trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |" wrote:
And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
in altering drug metabolism according to some research
and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
PMID: 15649653
The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
mechanisms it controls. �The tocotrienols do
activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
If you don't understand that, you are completely
clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
tocotrienols. �And that's precisely why you need
to be protected from yourself. �Even if you don't
want this protection, there's lots of other people
who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
who do need this protection. �Tocotrienols inevitably
will cause considerable mischief if made widely
available to the public.
Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if strategized
correctly.
Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or trienols)
remains valid.
--
EA
[/quote:53e5434fb0]
Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!
border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!
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post01.iad!news.highwinds-media.com!news.cv.net!not-for-mail
From: "Existential Angst" <UNfit... at (no spam) UNoptonline.net>
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,misc.health.alternative
References: <4ACF8EF5.3BF7F87D at (no spam) sonic.net> <4da8b11a-
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<4AD228D2.C51B845A at (no spam) sonic.net>
Subject: Re: American Roulette -- Contaminated Dietary Supplements
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:13:48 -0400
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"Mark Thorson" <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4AD228D2.C51B845A at (no spam) sonic.net...
[quote:53e5434fb0]"trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |" wrote:
And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
in altering drug metabolism according to some research
and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
PMID: 15649653
The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
mechanisms it controls. The tocotrienols do
activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
If you don't understand that, you are completely
clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
tocotrienols. And that's precisely why you need
to be protected from yourself. Even if you don't
want this protection, there's lots of other people
who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
who do need this protection. Tocotrienols inevitably
will cause considerable mischief if made widely
available to the public.
[/quote:53e5434fb0]
Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if
strategized
correctly.
Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or
trienols)
remains valid.
--
EA |
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| Jan Drew... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:45 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 11, 12:13 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine.html
[quote:5118eb664f]On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote:
Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
about contamination in the severly underregulated
dietary supplements business. Many products contain
dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
of the public and even a third of medical students
wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
by a government agency.
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
sorely in need of reform.
WoW!,
I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did not
regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
not to enforce it.
Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
http://www.naturalnews.com/z008269_health_medicine_organized_medicine...
Why organized medicine wants to outlaw nutrition and turn healers into
criminals
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
How about some truth for a change about the Food Supplements Directive
in the European Union? The proponents of this directive say that it's
about protecting patients from all these dangerous vitamins, minerals,
supplements, plant extracts and antioxidants that are so dangerous for
people. They say, "We're going to keep you safe!" Let me tell you what
I think. It's an attempt to outlaw nutrition. It is an attempt to
criminalize those who would offer nutritional products that can
actually prevent and even treat chronic diseases.
Why would anyone want to do this? Well, look at what it's trying to
ban. One of the things it's trying to ban is tocotrienols, which are
various forms of vitamin E. These are naturally occurring antioxidants
that are found in the plant world. You can find them in whole grains,
nuts, seeds and a variety of different plants. Why would they want to
ban these ingredients and make it a crime to sell these to people?
Well, think about it folks. These ingredients prevent chronic disease
better than prescription drugs, without the side effects, and without
the profitability of prescription drugs. If people really knew just
how much they could prevent chronic disease with these plant extracts,
medicinal herbs, vitamins, minerals, and supplements, the
pharmaceutical industry would collapse overnight.
The defenders of "Big Pharma" and of organized medicine have realized
that they can't win the information war. They can't prevent people
from finding out how to be healthy. Believe me, they've tried! They've
tried through censorship, oppression, influence, and even attempts to
regulate medical information on the internet. They have tried to
create a total blackout of information, but they've failed. Thank God
we live in a (relatively) free society where the internet still
operates and people have access to independent information. As people
are increasingly finding out that prescription drugs actually kill
you, while vitamins, nutrients, and plant-based supplements actually
save your life, organized medicine had to go to Plan B. Plan B is to
outlaw nutrition, which is what the European Union Food Supplements
Directive is all about.
Let's take this one step further here. Let’s assume they succeed in
outlawing this nutrition. It's suddenly illegal to buy any amount of
vitamin C over 50 mg, for example. It's illegal to buy various
minerals, such as vanadium or boron. It becomes illegal to buy
tocotrienols, or other antioxidants derived from plants. Well, what's
the next step? It is, of course, to outlaw medicinal foods entirely!
Can you imagine a world in which it would be illegal to purchase and
consume garlic? It sounds ridiculous, right? You say, "Oh, come on,
that's just exaggeration!" But is it really? Garlic is one of the most
medicinally potent foods in the world. This is a product that prevents
and treats topical and internal cancers. Raw garlic juice is one of
the most potent anti-cancer supplements you can consume. You can go to
a grocery store right now, buy garlic, and make this yourself. This is
more powerful than many drugs out there. It's a broad-spectrum
antibiotic. It's antiviral, antibacterial, anti-cancer and anti-tumor.
This is an amazing healing food.
Would they try to outlaw that? Right now, they're trying to outlaw
extracts from different plants. It's only a small step for them to
actually outlaw these foods. You'd have to have a prescription to buy
garlic. It would be a controlled substance, and if you grew it in your
own garden, you'd be arrested as a criminal. Don't believe me? Just
try to grow omega-3-rich hemp seeds in your backyard and see how long
it takes for the DEA to show up at your doorstep.
You have a great number of foods out there that actually treat, not
just prevent, chronic diseases. Molasses, for one, is a nutrient-rich
sweetener. It's made from the byproduct of whole grain processing. If
people ate more molasses or used it in their cooking or their oatmeal,
they would get more B vitamins, more magnesium, more zinc. They would
be healthier. We'd see a drop in the rate of Alzheimer's disease,
nervous system disorders, and behavioral disorders, such as Attention
Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and other so called "behavioral
diseases."
You may think it sounds crazy that these foods would some day be
banned. But I think it's crazy to ban extracts of these foods. They're
trying to ban these natural ingredients right now. Beyond the fact
that I think it is unethical to do so, it is a crime against humanity
to restrict people from access to the gifts provided by Mother Nature.
As human beings, we have a God-given right to eat plants, to use the
medicinal herbs found in our natural environment, and to heal
ourselves using these gifts provided by nature. I believe any attempt
to criminalize our connection with nature is itself a crime, and
should be treated as such.
Nutrition is bad for you, didn't you know?
The Food Supplements Directive (in Europe) and this whole effort by
the FDA (in the U.S.) to outlaw certain medicinal herbs and eventually
nutritional supplements is based on the outlandish premise that
prescription drugs are good for you and nutrition is bad for you. This
is such a reversal of reality that it's absolutely astounding they can
get away with even talking about it without being laughed off of the
television show or radio interview.
If you think about it, prescription drugs are what's killing people.
Prescription drugs are extremely dangerous, even according to the
statistics put out by organized medicine. We have one class of drugs,
Cox-2 inhibitors, which, all by itself, is responsible for at least
144,000 heart attacks in the United States alone. Over 40 percent of
those are fatal. The FDA admitted all of this information, yet said,
"That's not dangerous enough for us. Let's put this drug back on the
market." They rubber-stamped it "APPROVED BY THE FDA." This is now
safe for consumption, according to the FDA.
Meanwhile, a Chinese herb, ma huang, or "Ephedra," as it's better
known, is blamed for the death of a few dozen individuals who
overdosed like crazy trying to lose weight. A few dozen people and the
FDA said, "This is dangerous! We have to take this off the market!
It's unregulated. It's a Chinese herb. It will kill you!" It is now a
crime to sell Ephedra. They're criminalizing medicinal herbs, while
legalizing the drugs that kill you. This is what's going on today.
It's really about control
There's a lot at stake here -- a lot of power, control, and, of
course, a whole lot of money. The people at the top of organized
medicine's hierarchy, the FDA, the American Medical Association, top
doctors, surgeons, hospitals, and so on, have all realized that if
nutrition succeeds, and if people become educated about how to prevent
disease through simple, easily available foods, then they are going to
lose a lot of money. They're going to lose a lot of patients, whom
they're depending on. You have drug companies looking at the coming
wave of Alzheimer's and jumping up and down with joy, thinking, "Look
how many customers we're going to have. Let's come up with an
Alzheimer's drug!" Research then comes out showing that Alzheimer's
drugs cause dementia. Yes, it's true. Pain drugs cause heart attacks,
antidepressant drugs cause people to pick up automatic weapons and
blow away their classmates; you can just go on down the list. These
drugs are designed to treat disease and improve people's lives but
they only destroy lives. Nevertheless, that doesn't stop the drug
companies from being excited about the opportunity to sell these drugs
to people.
It's all about selling the drugs. Really, the FDA is just one
gatekeeper by which these drugs can be sold. The FDA is being
exploited and controlled by drug companies. The FDA rubber-stamps
drugs that are highly toxic and extremely dangerous. These drugs
continue to be sold to people all around the world at ridiculously
high prices. It's a big scam, and there's big money at stake.
That's why they've got to attack nutritional supplements. They've got
to outlaw vitamin C, vitamin E, and minerals that prevent disease.
They've got to criminalize them. Their strategy right now is to
protect the profits of the pharmaceutical industry. This whole Food
Supplements Directive in Europe is really nothing more than an attempt
to protect profits. By doing that, they're committing a crime against
humanity, in my belief. They're trying to say that it should be
illegal for people to choose foods, medicines, ...
read more »- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -[/quote:5118eb664f] |
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| Jan Drew... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:47 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 11, 1:12�am, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
<trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:f3b4bd3562]On Oct 10, 7:31�pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 10, 1:02�am, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 1:30�pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 4:11�pm, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 1:01�pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 12:28�pm, Mark Thorson <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote:
Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
about contamination in the severly underregulated
dietary supplements business. �Many products contain
dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
largely unaware how bad the situation is. �A majority
of the public and even a third of medical students
wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
by a government agency.
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
sorely in need of reform.
WoW!,
I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did not
regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
not to enforce it.
Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
Rubbish. The DSHEA is a great thing.-
The passage of DSHEA was riddled with clear conflict of interest of
Orrin Hatch of Utah, which was, at that time, a major manufacture
state of supplements. Hatch's son has been a lobbyist for supplement
manufacturers.
And, DSHEA gutted the FDA and FTC's authority. Said gutting lead to
the death of a son of a friend of ours.
No laws are perfect. And all laws are made like sausage.
As to the death, it likely was an ephredra related.
Many of those who ran it problem i.e. death very took large
doses. Ephredra is in a class of drugs that have
a NARROW safety margin. It has been use to
good effect in persons with COPD in the past.
Though it had a dose standardisation issue.
Taking it as stimulant is not a wise action and
a clear misuse of it drug action.
Even the relatively safe stimulant caffeine
gets people into the hospital all the time.
I still say the "gutting" was a VERY good
thing overall. Remember Tylenol like products
have been damaging people for decades and
it still lacks black box warning.
I daily use materials that are preserved by DSHEA.
And they make a huge difference in my personal
quality of life and the effects are profound. We can
discuss specifics if you want. I can put a face
to the value of the DSHEA just as Mark seeks
to put a face to a specific (now banned) supplement's
risk.
Can we imagine ethanol and coffee/caffeine making
it to the market in the modern world? The
nervous nellies would have surely ban them.
As they in fact did over the objections of others.
I do agree to an extent that herbal substances
can contain powerful drugs and one needs to
be informed and take it slow. Nonetheless, it
can be useful to have an end run around
big pharma the ignorant MDs. And I
must admit most of my end runs haven't been
herbal but rather hormonal i.e. melatonin and
nutrient like i.e. betaine HCL. Just to mention
two items. Nonetheless the FDA has messed
with flavonoids in the past even though
they quite benign materials. They have
sought at times to restrict vitamin levels
in supplements to very low levels. There
is a history Mark and mainstream media
ignore of bad deeds by the FDA past. The
FDA banned folinic acid in the past.
Now it is the favored form of the vitamin
for some with a common metabolic defect.
Albeit it is under a new name and under
a patent by Merck as I recall. And though
it is available (again) OTC which is good.
leave it to a lawyer or ex-lawyer
to imagine more regulation is
the solution..................................Trig- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -[/quote:f3b4bd3562] |
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| Jan Drew... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:57 pm |
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Yappy keeps yaping.
And is a well known long winded poster and a *gang* member.
German deleted. |
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| Jan Drew... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:47 pm |
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Mark S Probert Merrick, NY disbarred lawyer is too a well known liar.
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
From: aloysio... at (no spam) aol.com (AloysiousX)
Date: 07 Jan 2004 18:59:31 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 7 2004 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
I have no children, Sistah Jan.
As Salaam Aleikum, my Sistah!
AloysiousX
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
From: aloysio... at (no spam) aol.com (AloysiousX)
Date: 06 Jan 2004 22:31:39 GMT
Local: Tues, Jan 6 2004 6:31 pm
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
You know something, Sistah Ilena, I'm not Mark Probert, but it's
pretty clear
who the coward is.
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
From: aloysio... at (no spam) aol.com (AloysiousX)
Date: 07 Jan 2004 18:57:50 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 7 2004 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
Sistah Jan, I'd never heard of you until you made your post in the
breast
implant group, much in the same way I'd never heard of Mark Probert
until
Sistah Ilena mentioned him.
path:
archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!
news.lev��el3.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!
news.gtei.net!ngpeer.n�e�ws.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-
mail
Lines: 107
X-Admin: n... at (no spam) aol.com
From: aloysio... at (no spam) aol.com (AloysiousX)
Newsgroups: alt.support.breast-implant
Date: 06 Jan 2004 17:54:38 GMT
References: <19faaec.0401060908.68a7... at (no spam) posting.google.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: A New Year's Resolution
Message-ID: 20040106125438.01826.00002... at (no spam) mb-m18.aol.com
[quote:0129c21fbe]Subj: Is There Some Reason...> Date: 2/12/2004 2:18:07 PM Pacific Standard
Time> From: AloysiousX> To: JDrew63929>>> Is there some reason why you
won't let me ask you a few questions, Jan? > I'm> really curious about
your involvement with Ilena Rosenthal.>>> But I guess my most basic
question is whether or not you are in California> (like I am), or over in
Indiana, like your profile says.>>> I had thought you were out west, but I
guess not.>>> As Salaam Aleikum!>>> Aloysious
Mark Probert markprobert1... at (no spam) hotmail.com AloysiousX
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
That is utterly shocking. Jan, who professes to be a kind, good
Christian woman, would abandone her sick and elderly parents.
What a weaseling bitch.
[quote:0129c21fbe]May God have mercy on Jan's soul.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
What makes you believe that she has one? I see no evidence of a soul.
Just darkness and Satan.
you are a moron.
You should rot in hell, but that would not too rotten for people who
are
already there.
Only in your sick mind.
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OT For what it is worth.
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[/quote:0129c21fbe]
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/331b565b0a...
Allow me to suggest that you, and all others, think about adopting
what
I am doing. Responding in a pleasant non-threatening manner works
wonders.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/773f627f2d...
Dec 4 2006
A moron in both fields like you
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/msg/80ad2b5...
since they should have realized that when dealing with the mentally
ill
morons who
promote alternative medicine, etc.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/16e5116b8ee92a42?hl=en&
Feb 23 2004
I lied.
The simple fact is that there is no cover-up regarding asbestos. In
the
1980's, under AHERA, schools nationwide removed tons of it.
Construction
companies were forced to perform abatement before renovations or
demolition.
There is no doubt that there are very sick people with asbestosis and
mesothelioma who were exposed to asbestos. I meet several of them
every
month and can usually find some documentation of their possible
exposure so
they can recevie WC benefits.
Backj in the 1950's and 1960's, there was no idea that asbestos
exposure
could be so dangerous. During WWII boat builders at the Navy Yards
were
routinely exposed to it, brought the dust home, and exposed their
families.
No one knew.
When I was in elementary school, I received a kit from a group in
Canada,
where asbestos was mined, called "Asbestos-The Magic Mineral." I
brought it
to school for a science project. No one knew.
Once the dangers became known, precautions were put in place, and,
eventually, abatement was begun. There is far less asbestos in our
environment to day, and HULDA CLARK HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!
Anyone claiming that there was a cover-up is an liar.
When someone proffers an idea, it is their burden to prove it.
Searched all groups Results 1 - 2 of 2 for "cunt"
[quote:0129c21fbe]group:misc.health.alternative author:happydog at (no spam) sympatico.ca (0.10 seconds)
*All that proves is that HD posted a message with the word in it. HD may
have been quoting the word for all you know.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
And, besides, it is an acronym for *C*annot *U*nderstand *N*ormal
[quote:0129c21fbe]*T*hinking, which is precisely *YOUR* problem.* Mark Probert
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
*Ad hominems are used to discredit, and that
is *precisely* why you do it.* Mark Probert
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/eac0698e78a0163c
March 21: 9:16 am 2006
*If you, and Jan, want to dredge up ancient
history, feel free. I do not play that game anymore.
If you continue to post with the same attitude, I will correctly
assume that you, too, in addition to Jan, want the war to continue.
I do not.* Mark Probert
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/720a2c7b7c94387f
Sept 12 2006
Jan Drew wrote:
"Mark Probert" <markprob... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
[quote:0129c21fbe]Do check my ten year posting history in alt.support.attn-deficit. This is
not current events, moron.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Glad to se Mark is a kinder and gentler poster.
Yes, indeed--he has quite a history.
Like this:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/079cd95996...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/10c9073f2...
2000
mtreb... at (no spam) aol.comxyxyxyxy (Mark Probert
m.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r... at (no spam) lymbercartel.com
Mark Probert <mark_prob... at (no spam) hotmail.com
Ritalin Helps Teens with ADHD, Study Shows
Attention Disorder Meds Don't Up Drug Abuse Risk
Lilly Says New ADHD Drug Effective
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/c3d8b7a12...
"Cher" <crgeo... at (no spam) i-55.com> wrote in message
news:acm6fj$8h5$1 at (no spam) news.datasync.com...
[quote:0129c21fbe]"Mark Probert" <mark_prob... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aclbvm$qm610$1 at (no spam) ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
Lilly Says New ADHD Drug Effective Wed May 22,12:08 PM ET By Jed Seltzer
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Drugmaker Eli Lilly and Co. on Wednesday said that
late-stage tests of its experimental treatment for attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) showed it to be as effective as standard
therapies, with fewer troublesome safety risks.
The drug, called atomoxetine, may offer an alternative to current
medicines,
such as Novartis AG's Ritalin (news - web sites), which have been
associated
with overstimulation and the potential for abuse.
Data on the drug, gathered from trials of children and adults were
presented
at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association in Philadelphia.
Both
trials showed the drug was significantly more effective than a placebo
in
reducing symptoms of ADHD -- such as inability to sustain attention,
restlessness, and impulsiveness.
The results put atomoxetine's results on par with Ritalin and other
medicines.
"The children's trial looked at those traditional issues of attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder and showed efficacy that put it as a
logical
and equal alternative with any existing treatment," said Dr. Calvin
Sumner,
a researcher with Lilly.
Among children ages 6 to 11, the drug showed on average a 13.3-point
reduction on a common scale of symptoms, compared with about a 4.7-point
reduction with placebo, Lilly said. In children ages 12 to 18, the drug
demonstrated on average a 13.3-point reduction on the scale, compared
with
about a 6.9-point reduction with placebo. The results represented a
statistically significant difference, Sumner said.
Mark, do they ever do comparison with the new drugs to the ones presently
being used? I'd be curious to know the differences in the reduction of
ADHD symptoms between this new drug and one like Ritalin. In other words,
does "new" mean better?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Sometimes, yes. It does eliminate the stigma that the anti-med morons
like
to lay on people. If it eliminates the need for monthly prescriptions,
that
does mean BETTER.
As for head to head tests, the article said:
"In earlier clinical trials, atomoxetine compared well with
methylphenidate.
Although Lilly has not conducted head-to-head studies, previous tests
of
atomoxetine included a small group of patients treated with
methylphenidate."
They do conduct these tests, but that is down the road.
The rest of the article does say 'better' AFAIAC.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/7550fbc35...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/bc7d8f8f1...
Yes, I have had dealings with him. I have been reading his
HealthFraud
listserv for over three years. I do not find him to be arrogant or
pushy as you describe. Opinionated? Yes. Blunt? Yes. (But, those are
my favorite personal qualities, too.)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/f82f14bc4...
Has your ADHD diagnosis been confirmed by any *biological* tests that
showed
[quote:0129c21fbe]the abnormality of your brain? If not, your claim to having ADHD is no
more valid than a claim of those who say they have seen UFOs. Doesn't it
fly in the face on any reason, that the so-called biological psychiatry has
absolutely no biological proof to any of it's claims?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
There are several **medical** conditions that have no clinical
findings, do not show up on x-rays or scans, and have no laboratory
tests that demonstrate that they actually exist. Does this mean that
they do not exist?
Jeff Utz" <kidsdoc2... at (no spam) hotmail.com
Study: Ritalin may help ADHD kids avoid future drug use
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/d98a73b3c...
Jun 9 2000
Mark Probert <mtreborpNOmtS... at (no spam) aol.com.invalid
In article <20000609005230.09666.00001... at (no spam) ng-mf1.aol.com>,
jdrew63... at (no spam) aol.com (JDrew63929) wrote:
[quote:0129c21fbe]From: Andrew Kingoff aking... at (no spam) cfl.rr.com Date: 06/08/2000 10:29 PM US
Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
Andrew has a history of lying. I have said none of these things.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
So far, you have a negative credibility rating. Andrew has a
neutral credibility rating.
Guess who is going to be believed? Hint: Do not look in the
mirror.
[note Andrew has nuked his posts].
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/19daef24c...
the only troll here is andrew. if anyone would like to see fine
examples of
his
work (and the reason for his obviously personal dislike of me, feel
free to
check
out any of the acupuncture threads on mha. he's our resident
acupuncture
student-who-really-wants-to-be-a-doctor.)
Probert <markpr... at (no spam) my-deja.com
Jun 8 2000
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/9db734b87...
In article <20000609090502.20593.00001... at (no spam) nso-cu.aol.com>,
jbai... at (no spam) aol.com (John Bain) wrote:
[quote:0129c21fbe]Rich <kala... at (no spam) hawaii.rr.com> writes:
Another nice set of lies.
To Jan if it is pro alt it is good and if it is anti-conventional it is
even better.
Jan has never said this.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
S/h/it does not have to. Anyone with critical reading skills can
readily read its messages and conclude this. It really is not hard.
Just requires thinking.
[quote:0129c21fbe]For those of you who have not been reading misc.health.alternative, Jan
Drew likely is suffering from some kind of psychosomatic disorder and has
very bad experiences with conventional medicine who do not give into her
delusional beliefs about her health.
Your opinion based on no evidence at all.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Rich does not do that. he does not use altLogic.
[quote:0129c21fbe]She has had all her amalgams removed due to believing that she had
mercury poisoning and only DAYS after having them removed she
reported
that she felt better than she has in years. Of course anyone who
knows
anything about mercury toxicity realizes that her improvement had nothing
to do with the removal of the amalgams.
And your proof of this? You know nothing about Jan's condition and how it
was affected by the
dental
work.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Perfect! Knowing nothing is a prerequisite for believing in
alternative
therapies!
[quote:0129c21fbe]She also is a Hulda "Quack" Clark supporter and believes that she was
infected with multiple parasites including loa loa which is not found in
North America.
And she had the lab reports that stated loa loa.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Hulda just escaped jail on a technicality.
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan is a sick individual who tries to recruit people to her way of
thinking. She is not very bright and cannot tolerate individuals who
disagree with her point of view.
Rich doesn't like Jan because she stands uo to him. He will be killfiling
her next.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
I won't. I do not do killfiles. I do kill-bullshit.
[quote:0129c21fbe]I am truly sorry that I made her aware of this support group
You didn't 'make her aware of it' until confusion set in, you
crossposted her
to it, deliberately.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
That is a means to make a person aware of something. However, that
statement does not apply if you use altLogic.
[quote:0129c21fbe]The last thing that you need is Jan Drew mail bombing your group with
her nonsense.
How can she do this, she is only posting to MHA, like me. If anyone thinks
ASA-D should read this, please repost it to them
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
It is posted to them.
[quote:0129c21fbe]Again I apologize to ADAD and encourage all of you to keep up the good
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
work.
[quote:0129c21fbe]You should apologise, but for your own behavior.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Jan should apologize for bullshiting.
[quote:0129c21fbe]I will continue to try to keep posters on mha honest and challenge
the
very dubious claims.
And you do not consider Andrew's, acupuncture 'disharmonies' are
legally
defined in the Florida statutes, is a dubious claim.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
legally defined does not make them real. Politics is following money.
[quote:0129c21fbe]No, you pick on people and if they challenge you, killfile them.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Not me.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/245ad163e...
Kitten, even tho you have nine lives, DO NOT hold your breath,.
Cornball is not interested in such a thing. When I gave s/h/it the
proof he demanded, s/h/it tucked its tail between its legs and would
not respond to my posts again.
S/h/it cannot handle facts.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/a84d22a17...
Mark Probert <mtreborpNOmtS... at (no spam) aol.com.invalid
Keith OD." <thatone... at (no spam) mindspring.com> wrote:
[quote:0129c21fbe]"Joe Parsons" <j... at (no spam) cyber-mall.com> wrote in message
news:9t3nls4fmoq1ded6nlmms3iq37i5diapu6 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:04:03 -0400, "Keith OD."
thatone... at (no spam) mindspring.com
wrote:
..... <CLIP>....
But none of it is relevant to the therapeutic usage of this
or any
medication.
Joe Parsons
========================================================== Frequently
Asked Questions for alt.support.attn-deficit and other resources for
dealing with attention deficit disorder are at
http://www.cyber-mall.com/asad/
Gee. That's really wise. I guess the couple of other folks
complaining
about headaches in this group are irrelevant too. I guess they aren't
relevant
to the
therapeutic usage of this drug or any medication either.
It must really suck when you realize that the "therapeutic
usage" you're
talking about isn't really that therapeutic. And that people's lives have
actually
been royally
fucked up by it. I can see why you consider us irrelevant.
But regrettably, the topic of the group isn't the medication.
It's
attention deficit issues. And the therapeutic use of the drug isn't the
topic of
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
conversation in this
[quote:0129c21fbe]thread. Nobody was talking about therapeutic use of the drug or any
medication,
Joe. The
topic is about whether or not Ritalin can be addictive. So your
irrelevancy
comment is in
fact itself irrelevant. I'm not off topic. You are. You are off topic no
matter who
the fuck you
are or think you are.
BSEG Take a hike richard noggin,
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Please watch your language. This newsgroup is like an extension
of my lving room and such foul mouthing is not tolerated.
[ROTFLOL..............Mark claimed he did not post from aol].
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.health/msg/bc1780f59b2683f9
Marciosos7 Probertiosos8" MarcProber... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com
I know, I will email this to Jan.
I hope others repost it, and also email it to her.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/4747e5a97...
"Mark Probert" <Mark Prob... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com
I wanted to get the point accross, and I did not know how to shut off
HTML
in OE.
Path:
g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!news3.optonline.net!
news�4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Mark Probert" <Mark Prob... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com>
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
References: <pqdid.12961$fF6.2600... at (no spam) news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
<1862-418C0456... at (no spam) storefull-3174.bay.webtv.net>
<yJVid.34811$fF6.9861... at (no spam) news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
<wEYyTI$0R... at (no spam) eisner.encompasserve.org>
Subject: Re: Hyperactivity Drugs Found Wanting
Lines: 21
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
Message-ID: <dNajd.38626$fF6.12637... at (no spam) news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 20:49:13 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.194.64.219
X-Complaints-To: a... at (no spam) cv.net
X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1099774153 68.194.64.219 (Sat, 06 Nov
2004
15:49:13 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:49:13 EST
Organization: Optimum Online
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/aae7dbc74...
Jun 17 2000
mtreb... at (no spam) aol.comxyxyxyxy (Mark Probert)
From: mtreb... at (no spam) aol.comxyxyxyxy (Mark Probert)
Subject: Re: Study: Psychiatric drugs overprescribed for kids
Date: 2000/06/17
Message-ID: <20000617130500.04708.00001... at (no spam) nso-fs.aol.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 635758279
References: <20000616192330.22264.00000... at (no spam) ng-cl1.aol.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
X-Admin: n... at (no spam) aol.com
In article <20000616192330.22264.00000... at (no spam) ng-cl1.aol.com>,
jdrew63... at (no spam) aol.com
(JDrew63929) writes:
[quote:0129c21fbe]From: baja... at (no spam) my-deja.com
Date: 06/16/2000 1:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <8idsi4$44... at (no spam) nnrp1.deja.com
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]snip
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Again my concern is the use of these drugs on very
young children and so far I am not convinced we know enough about the
effects these drugs have on them. I will continue searching for those
studies.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]I'm with you. I don't think there are any studies on young children?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Incorrect. There are studies that have been completed and reported,
and
others
in progress.
So we
[quote:0129c21fbe]just
wing it?? IMHO, drugging young children is WRONG! And yes I have had
experience, been there, done that. That's WHY I have these opinions.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
So, you drugged kids, eh?
Couldn't handle them, eh?
Mark Probert
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/65ea24c05...
Jun 17 2000
Mark Probert <mtreborpNOmtS... at (no spam) aol.com.invalid
jdrew63... at (no spam) aol.com (JDrew63929) wrote:
[quote:0129c21fbe]From: mtreb... at (no spam) aol.comxyxyxyxy (Mark Probert) Date: 06/17/2000 12:05 PM
US Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
20000617130500.04708.00001... at (no spam) nso-fs.aol.com
In article <20000616192330.22264.00000... at (no spam) ng-cl1.aol.com>,
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
jdrew63... at (no spam) aol.com
[quote:0129c21fbe](JDrew63929) writes:
From: baja... at (no spam) my-deja.com Date: 06/16/2000 1:44 PM US Eastern Standard
Time Message-id: <8idsi4$44... at (no spam) nnrp1.deja.com
snip
Again my concern is the use of these drugs on very young children and so
far I am not convinced we know enough
about the
effects these drugs have on them. I will continue searching
for those
studies.
I'm with you. I don't think there are any studies on young
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
children?
[quote:0129c21fbe]Incorrect. There are studies that have been completed and
reported, and
others in progress.
Proof please. Post them here.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Look them up on Medline. Posting studies to you has always been
a waste of time.
You have no credibility in a.s.a.d.
[quote:0129c21fbe]So we
just wing it?? IMHO, drugging young children is WRONG! And yes I
have had
experience, been there, done that. That's WHY I have these
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
opinions.
[quote:0129c21fbe]So, you drugged kids, eh?
No.
Couldn't handle them, eh?
LOL Just two daycare centers for 38 years.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
38 years 38 years 38 years 38 years
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/fc44613f7...
Mark Probert <mtreborpNOmtS... at (no spam) aol.com.invalid
Jun 9 2000 12:00 am
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
Ommmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years....Ommmmm 38 years.....
[quote:0129c21fbe]But we hear that
rumors of your resurrection are wildly exaggerated, and you failed to
answer any of my prayers last week, so I'm suspicious.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Do you know what you are talking about? I surely do not. I ran that
sentence through my bullshit detector, and it exploded.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]BTW, do you
wear a cape?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Petey, you should learn how to type with one hand. Whenever you use two,
you lose your grip on reality.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Example of Mark's history in MHA.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/a8d43ea041...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/681884b7dd538593
*It is the fact you sent the email which is not polite.* Mark Probert
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breast-implant/msg/c74c400a73fdd79b
Wed, Mar 16 2005 4:20 pm
*I will, as of this posting, Wednesday, March 16, 2005, at 4:20 PM
EST,
unconditionally cease and desist from posting to Ilena, about Ilena or
in
response to Ilena.
I hope that you, who have been a supporter of hers, will now move and
directly ask her to do the same thing. Further, if she ceases her
actions
towards me, I will render the posts in the Fan Club unreadable. If
she
removes any and all webpages regarding me and/or my family, the Fan
Club
will cease to exist.* Mark Probert
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/e1196f173d9d9fe6
From: Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 05:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 13 2008 8:48 am
Subject: Re: Every Child By Two: A Front Group for Wyeth
Two morons thinking alike. Why am I not surprised?
Mark S Probert using a remailler:
(1st Pres. of the soon to be created Jan Drew Fan Club!)
[quote:0129c21fbe]====
Anonymous" <BigappleRemai... at (no spam) Optonline.Ne�t> wrote in message
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]To avoid death threats from Jan use a remailer
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Do a google search on this psycopath using her name in quotes and
keywords like "abuse" etc., and you will find out why its a good idea to
protect yourself.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]From: "Markositiu Probertositiu" <markprober... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Yes, it is a good idea to protect yourself from Jan Drew as she is an
enemy
of free speech and reports people to the authorities for silly reasons
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Usenet Health Gazette Nov 25 2004, 2:35 am show options
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.usenet.kooks, alt.idiots,
alt.conspiracy
From: Anonymous-Remai... at (no spam) See.Comment.Header (Usenet Health
Gazette) - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Nov 2004 07:35:54 -0000
Local: Thurs,Nov 25 2004 2:35 am
Subject: Jan Drew Cleanses Wrong End.
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan needs to cleanse the right end. She needs to forget the 20
year old crust and all the parasites up her colon. She needs to
cleanse her head. This can be done by applying a douche bag
nozzel into her left ear and candling her right ear. The gentle
flow of air through her head will bring the cleansing flush of
iodized magnatized water through the whole cranium, cleansing
away hatred for Jews, her love of Hulda Clark and other wee
nasties and assorted parasites residing among her few still
functioning brain cells
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]AS YOU CAN SEE BELOW, HE SAYS "FLAMING TROLLS" ARE NOT ABUSIVE,
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]THEREFORE, ALASKAN JOE EYRES SHOULD RECEIVE IMMEDIATE MEMBERSHIP IN
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]ONE
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]OF THE MANY USENET GANGS.
------
alt.usenet.kooks > Jan Drew And Her Sock-Puppets. - View Parsed
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Date: 17 Dec 2004 01:35:52 -0000
----------------
Message-ID: <JZVEIOCS38337.8582407407 at (no spam) anon ymous
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]From: Anonymous-Remai... at (no spam) See.Comment .Header
------------------------------�----------------
(Usenet Health Gazette)
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Subject: Jan Drew And Her Sock-Puppets.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Cc: mail2n... at (no spam) dizum.com
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative,
alt.support.troll-acceptance,
alt.use net.kooks
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]References: <20041215220544.15969.00001903 at (no spam) mb-m02.aol.com
20041216032535.06545.00001... at (no spam) mb-m15.aol.com
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Comments: This message did not originate from the above address.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]It was remailed by two or more anonymous mail services.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Send complaints of REAL abuse ONLY to remaileradmin at optonline dot
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]n
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan Drew And Her Sock-Puppets.
Usenet Health Gazette Dec 16 2004, 8:35 pm show options
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,
alt.support.troll-acceptance, alt.usenet.kooks
From: Anonymous-Remai... at (no spam) See.Comment.Header (Usenet Health
Gazette) - Find messages by this author
Date: 17 Dec 2004 01:35:52 -0000
Local: Thurs,Dec 16 2004 8:35 pm
Subject: Jan Drew And Her Sock-Puppets.
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan Drew has posted many insane things in usenet. Jan Drew now
replies to her own posts. Is Jan Drew losing her mind? Too
many zap sessions with the Ckarke Zapper? Too many brain
cleanses and flushes? Too much candling? Jan Drew loves
screwballs like Hulda Clark. Jan Drew is an idiot and plays
with her own parasite riddled shit. Jan Drew's house must be a
filthy unsanitary mess for her to be so infested with parasites.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services..
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan said,
"I forgot to add in my preivous post. I did learn to find them
in my stools.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]They must have beem abnormally large, healthy and well fed parasites.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]I
won't go into the delightful details,
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Oh please do. We want to hear about stench and fly control, consistancy,
color and taste.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]but I went in a bucket and I soon leaned
what was parasites and what was undigested food.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]The parasites moved and the food did not?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Some were very white, small
and had ridges on the bottom, like straight tire treads.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Those where from not washing you hands after playing with other people's
feces.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Some were black, very
thin and had a slight head.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Those were from eating raw meats and unwashed vegetables and fruit.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]One I passed was a white large 1 inch fat worm.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Just how filthy is your house, clothing and yard? May I suggest you hire
a cleaning crew and an exterminator. You need to do something about your
basic hygiene. Also use a good strong douche. One can only imagine what
manner of filth you have up there.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]This was NOT undigested food. The debunkers are dead wrong when
they state that
all parasites are invisible. But then, them haven't had them, so
they don't
have any experience. They just repeat what they have read.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Uh, no. Most people these days know about cooking their food, washing
their hands after using the toilet and washing fruit and vegetables. And
99.99% of people are not deficating in a bucket and spending hours
picking through the feces looking for parasites. How often do you
indulge in this fetish?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]I checked all bowel movements (wasn't too difficult when taking
enemas)
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Sounds kinky to me. Did they feel good?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]for a
long time. That is how you learn. You must take your health into
your own hands
if you truly want to get well.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Rather then take enemas and waste time picking through one's reeking
feces one can improve their hygiene and send a specimen to a lab for
professional analysis. Perhaps a little psychotherapy would also be
beneficial Jan.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Editor: Usenet Health Gazette
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Usenet Health Gazette Nov 14 2004, 2:31 am show options
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: Anonymous-Remai... at (no spam) See.Comment.Header (Usenet Health
Gazette) - Find messages by this author
Date: 14 Nov 2004 07:31:43 -0000
Local: Sun,Nov 14 2004 2:31 am
Subject: none
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]alt.usenet.kooks,
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]alt.fan.idiots-delight
Subject: Jan Drew Hates Jews.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Jan Drew had posted many antisemitic messages on usenet. Jan
Drew also hates homosexuals. Jan Drew loves screwballs like
Hulda Clark. jan Drew is an idiot.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
From: markpr... at (no spam) aol.com (MarkProbe)
Date: 1997/10/06
Subject: Who Is Afraid??
In article <61bfgg$nl... at (no spam) twwells.com>, XXXXX... at (no spam) anon.twwells.com ( at (no spam) #$
%^)
writes:
[quote:0129c21fbe]You're not AFRAID of the response I'll give are you?
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
Me afraid? I do not:
use an annonymous remailer
no-archive
Use a pseudonym
ask that threads that seem to be going against me be taken to
email
Now, what was that about me being afraid???
Sorry, my credentials are impeccable in this area.
Mark Probert
Long Island, NY
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: Mark Probert <markprob... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:09:46 -0400
Local: Wed, Jun 29 2005 5:09 pm
Subject: Re: Mark Probert Blathers (I missed it)
LadyLollipop wrote:
[quote:0129c21fbe]"Mark Probert" <markprob... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:Nxcwe.5720$2Z3.4883 at (no spam) fe10.lga...
LadyLollipop wrote:
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]"Mark Probert" <markprob... at (no spam) lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:Q8Uve.5556$2Z3.1809 at (no spam) fe10.lga...
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]PeterB wrote:
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Frankly, I don't care who he is, it's his slaphappy posting I find
annoying. And if his writing is any indication, I wouldn't think he
ever spent a day in law school.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Thank you for showing some indicia of intelligence.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Like I said, I do not respond to this allegation. Any discussion will be
in email.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Something wrong right there.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]WHY can't Mark respond out in the OPEN?????
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]you stupid moron.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]Typical.
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
[quote:0129c21fbe]snip more lies
[/quote:0129c21fbe]
What Jan cannot handle:
I have responded one time. I have tried to end this war with
Rosthenal
for years, and neither you nor her will allow it to end. You both
keep
raising the issue regardless of my efforts at peace. I spent two
years
not responding to her abuse, and then the bitch had the fucking nerve
to
email my wife to try to silence me. When you became aware of that
abusive stalking behavior you remained silent, and instead whined
that
my wife had sent you copies of the bitches emails.
Jan, truly, go and drop dead.
*I read Torah everday* Mark S Probert Merrick, NY
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: "M,a,r,k P,r,o,b,e,r,t-September 7, 2004" <M,a,r,k
P,r,o,b,e,r,t
09-07... at (no spam) lambercartel.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 10, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
07-10... at (no spam) lymbercartel.com>
From: M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-April 30, 2004
(M.a.r.k_P.r.o.b.e.r.t_04-30... at (no spam) limbercartel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.support.cerebral-palsy, misc.handicap
From: "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-June 11, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
06-11... at (no spam) lombercartel.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:11:24 GMT |
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| Jan Drew... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:52 pm |
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Guest
|
On Oct 12, 3:47�pm, Happy Oyster <happy.oys... at (no spam) ariplex.com> wrote:
[quote:554152bcf9]On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT), PeterB <p... at (no spam) mytrashmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 11, 11:04�am, Happy Oyster <happy.oys... at (no spam) ariplex.com> wrote:
From wiki.answers.com:
That is crap.
[/quote:554152bcf9]
938 posts in 12 days.
All of them crap. |
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| Mark Thorson... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:23 pm |
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Guest
|
"trigonometry1972 at (no spam) gmail.com |" wrote:
[quote:29e793cdb5]
Yes my position moved. And it wasn't
the abstract you cited, it was one of
the ones that I provided to this discussion.
[/quote:29e793cdb5]
The one about the liver lesions? Even I didn't
know about that one. If tocotrienols start to
get any traction in the alternative medicine
community, I'll have to do a thorough literature
search on its safety issues. It looks really bad.
With regard to the line between nutrients and
drugs, the same compound can be both. Tryptophan
is an essential amino acid, so there is a nutritional
requirement for it. Usually that comes from a
balanced source of amino acids, like meat or eggs.
But when that one amino acid is isolated by itself
and used for a specific non-nutritional purpose
like as an aid to sleep, it's being used as a drug.
(Tryptophan is a precursor to important
neurotransmitters.) Pure tryptophan supplements
and other isolated "nutrients" with claimed specific
drug-like uses should be regulated as drugs. That
would have prevented the epidemic of eosinophilic
myalgia caused by tryptophan supplements 20 years
ago. |
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| Peter B.... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:53 pm |
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Guest
|
"PeterB" <pkm at (no spam) mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:b44f14e7-d060-4a0e-831d-7ca016bf7d08 at (no spam) v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 9, 4:30 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:555c3e0d11]On Oct 9, 4:11 pm, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 1:01 pm, catherine hoffman <choffman0... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote:
Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
about contamination in the severly underregulated
dietary supplements business. Many products contain
dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
of the public and even a third of medical students
wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
by a government agency.
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
sorely in need of reform.
WoW!,
I know quite a bit about the FDA, but I didn't know that they did
not
regulate the supplements. Is that also true for MLM companies?
Its not they don't have enough authority rather they choose
not to enforce it.
Incorrect. They do not have enough authority. DSHEA.
[/quote:555c3e0d11]
FDA has more power than it knows what to do with. Correction: FDA
knows more about power than it knows what to do.
=================================================
Are you "t"'s sockpuppet? |
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| Mark Thorson... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:17 pm |
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Guest
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Jan Drew wrote:
[quote:293929df57]
Yappy keeps yaping.
And is a well known long winded poster and a *gang* member.
[/quote:293929df57]
What? He's a Freemason? |
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| D. C. Sessions... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:32 pm |
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Guest
|
In message <aa44fbda-9e3b-48a8-a651-399c60058fd0 at (no spam) k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, trigonometry1972 at (no spam) gmail.com | wrote:
[quote:de91f0f7e5]Vitamins and nutrients are not drugs.
[/quote:de91f0f7e5]
Of course not. That's why anyone bringing a new product
to market should call it a "dietary supplement" or
"nutrient" instead. Boyd Haley, for instance, has
discovered that a chemical used for cleaning up
Superfund sites is a nutrient and is marketing it
as such, with the usual wink and nudge about how it
might chelate vaccine-induced toxins from children.
His safety trials consisted of his cat and some
goldfish.
--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs at (no spam) lumbercartel.com> -+ |
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| Peter B.... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:06 pm |
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Guest
|
"Jan Drew" <jdrew63929 at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:f0bb676d-9578-4ded-8454-c13fb0a53667 at (no spam) j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 12, 3:47�pm, Happy Oyster <happy.oys... at (no spam) ariplex.com> wrote:
[quote:45adcb4411]On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT), PeterB
p... at (no spam) mytrashmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 11, 11:04�am, Happy Oyster <happy.oys... at (no spam) ariplex.com> wrote:
From wiki.answers.com:
That is crap.
[/quote:45adcb4411]
938 posts in 12 days.
All of them crap.
====================================================
Which makes you a scatologist as you read each and every one. |
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| trigonometry1972 at (no spam) gmail.com |... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:18 pm |
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Guest
|
On Oct 12, 5:23 pm, Mark Thorson <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote:
[quote:b8d6d69089]"trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |" wrote:
Yes my position moved. And it wasn't
the abstract you cited, it was one of
the ones that I provided to this discussion.
The one about the liver lesions? Even I didn't
know about that one. If tocotrienols start to
get any traction in the alternative medicine
community, I'll have to do a thorough literature
search on its safety issues. It looks really bad.
With regard to the line between nutrients and
drugs, the same compound can be both. Tryptophan
is an essential amino acid, so there is a nutritional
requirement for it. Usually that comes from a
balanced source of amino acids, like meat or eggs.
But when that one amino acid is isolated by itself
and used for a specific non-nutritional purpose
like as an aid to sleep, it's being used as a drug.
(Tryptophan is a precursor to important
neurotransmitters.) Pure tryptophan supplements
and other isolated "nutrients" with claimed specific
drug-like uses should be regulated as drugs. That
would have prevented the epidemic of eosinophilic
myalgia caused by tryptophan supplements 20 years
ago.
[/quote:b8d6d69089]
That was a peak X problem. An impurity.
Nothing is without problems. Simply banning the product was wrong,
demanding purity would have been the right move. Indeed there is form
of this
product on the market. Moreover, it remained in use in baby formula
and as a prescription item.
The problem manufacturer is said to have
changed it process.
Standard foods are risky, for example.
wheat and gluten products. That not
a reason to make them prescription items.
Indeed, a relaxing of regulation on bread
would result in relatively healthier products i.e. high bran breads.
High bran breads for those who
tolerate gluten are a relatively good way to prevent
and TREAT certain GI tract problems.
I can see it now prescription bread.
A man who has eaten banned forms
of bread...................................Trig |
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| PeterB... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:58 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 13, 12:06 am, "Peter B." <i... at (no spam) i-brag.com> wrote:
[quote:19ba7d6055]"Jan Drew" <jdrew63... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:f0bb676d-9578-4ded-8454-c13fb0a53667 at (no spam) j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 12, 3:47 pm, Happy Oyster <happy.oys... at (no spam) ariplex.com> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT), PeterB
p... at (no spam) mytrashmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 11, 11:04 am, Happy Oyster <happy.oys... at (no spam) ariplex.com> wrote:
From wiki.answers.com:
That is crap.
938 posts in 12 days.
All of them crap.
[/quote:19ba7d6055]
Jan is a tireless supporter of natural healing and your right to be
informed. Her work here is appreciated. Your pharmnuttery is not. |
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| PeterB... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:01 am |
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Guest
|
On Oct 12, 7:17 am, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
<trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:cfd9e902e7]On Oct 11, 12:13 pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit... at (no spam) UNoptonline.net
wrote:
"Mark Thorson" <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4AD228D2.C51B845A at (no spam) sonic.net...
"trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |" wrote:
And as to vitamin E interfering in drug
metabolism, it is the tocopherol form that
is the most active when compare to tocotrienol
in altering drug metabolism according to some research
and it takes a really whopping dose in this animal model.
PMID: 15649653
The tocopherol forms do not activate the SXR
receptor and the cascade of xenobiotic clearance
mechanisms it controls. The tocotrienols do
activate SXR, and that is why they are a risk.
If you don't understand that, you are completely
clueless with regard to the hazard of taking
tocotrienols. And that's precisely why you need
to be protected from yourself. Even if you don't
want this protection, there's lots of other people
who might believe the line used to sell tocotrienols
who do need this protection. Tocotrienols inevitably
will cause considerable mischief if made widely
available to the public.
Sounds like this "mischief" can be used to good advantage, if strategized
correctly.
Xenophobia is not nec a bad thing.
Thus, Trig's point about who the real "culprit" is (drugs or trienols)
remains valid.
--
EA
The following suggests a dose of tocotrienol is between
200 and 1000 milligrams is safe though research on the
the potential liver problems in the murine model is more recent.
And some of the issues mentioned in this article
may relate to vitamin E lowering vitamin K levels.
One of the reasons I am of the opinion taking
a vitamin K supplement along vitamin E supplementation
is prudent.
And if one lives were vitamin K isn't OTC, cooking
greens with butter maybe helpful. Parsley and
cilantro in both salads and cooking are ways
to increase K1 in the diet. Most get pitifully
small amounts of any form of vitamin K in their
diet. There is evidence that the vitamin K generated
in the gut is unavailable to a great extent in humans
as I recall. Though there are exceptions i.e. fermented
soy, natto.
[/quote:cfd9e902e7]
Thanks for the info. I like the natural K put out by Life Extension.
I agree that this is a very overlooked nutrient in our fast food
society.
[quote:cfd9e902e7]Vitam Horm. 2007;76:203-61.
Tocotrienols: the emerging face of natural vitamin E.
Sen CK, Khanna S, Rink C, Roy S.
Laboratory of Molecular Medicine, Department of Surgery, Davis Heart
and Lung Research Institute,
The Ohio State University Medical Center,
Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA.
Natural vitamin E includes eight chemically distinct molecules:
alpha-, beta-, gamma-, and delta-tocopherols and alpha-, beta-,
gamma-, and delta-tocotrienols.
More than 95% of all studies on vitamin E are directed
toward the specific study of alpha-tocopherol. The other
forms of natural vitamin E remain poorly understood.
The abundance of alpha-tocopherol in the human body
and the comparable efficiency of all vitamin E molecules
as antioxidants led biologists to neglect the non-tocopherol
vitamin E molecules as topics for basic and clinical
research. Recent developments warrant a serious
reconsideration of this conventional wisdom.
The tocotrienol subfamily of natural vitamin E
possesses powerful neuroprotective, anticancer, and
cholesterol-lowering properties that are often not
exhibited by tocopherols. Current developments
in vitamin E research clearly indicate that members
of the vitamin E family are not redundant
with respect to their biological functions.
alpha-Tocotrienol, gamma-tocopherol, and delta-tocotrienol
have emerged as vitamin E molecules with functions
in health and disease that are clearly distinct from
that of alpha-tocopherol. At nanomolar concentration,
alpha-tocotrienol, not alpha-tocopherol, prevents
neurodegeneration. On a concentration basis, this
finding represents the most potent of all biological
functions exhibited by any natural vitamin E molecule.
Recently, it has been suggested that the safe dose
of various tocotrienols for human consumption is
200-1000/day. A rapidly expanding body of evidence
supports that members of the vitamin E family
are functionally unique. In recognition of
this fact, title claims in publications should be limited
to the specific form of vitamin E studied. For example,
evidence for toxicity of a specific form of
tocopherol in excess may not be used to conclude
that high-dosage "vitamin E" supplementation may
ncrease all-cause mortality. Such conclusion incorrectly
implies that tocotrienols are toxic as well under
conditions where tocotrienols
were not even considered. The current state of knowledge warrants
strategic investment into the lesser known forms of vitamin E.
This will enable prudent selection of the appropriate vitamin
E molecule for studies addressing a specific
health need.
PMID: 17628176 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE][/quote:cfd9e902e7] |
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| PeterB... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:08 am |
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Guest
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On Oct 12, 9:26 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:1a7d2b0f65]On Oct 12, 9:08 pm, PeterB <p... at (no spam) mytrashmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 12, 2:18 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 12, 12:43 pm, PeterB <p... at (no spam) mytrashmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 10, 1:00 am, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 1:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 3:48 pm, "trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com |"
trigonometry1... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 9, 12:28 pm, Mark Thorson <nos... at (no spam) sonic.net> wrote:
Excellent article in New England Journal of Medicine
about contamination in the severly underregulated
dietary supplements business. Many products contain
dangerous, unapproved drugs, and yet the public is
largely unaware how bad the situation is. A majority
of the public and even a third of medical students
wrongly believe that supplements have to be approved
by a government agency.
http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2017&query=home
The dietary supplement industry is a dirty business,
sorely in need of reform.
Ha unapproved drugs they call them. I'll bet
they include alot of perfectly safe ingredients
in their list of "unapproved drugs,"
I wouldn't trust most proposed reforms other than
perhaps a bit more funding and monitoring to prevent
pharma drugs and toxics being slipped in by
crooks.
I would like to see:
1. Mandatory reporting of all adverse events, lawsuits, etc.
2. Complete disclosure of all ingredients, and banning the term
"Proprietary bland" etc.
3. Requirement that there be some standard of efficacy.
For starters.
The last requirement is evil, wicked, and corrupt
when one looks how the EU is doing it regulation of
supplements.
I usully try to ignore the EU since there is enough action here.
It is all to easy for government to
deny, drag their feet, and ignore the science and
then demand excessive levels of evidence and/or
wring their hands about safety to the point of
absolute stupidity.
That is precisely what the FDA wrt Thalidomide.
Vitamins and nutrients are not drugs.
However, when medical claims are made, they have to be substantiated
by something more than saleshype.
Understand putting something on the market without
a clear claim should be an option as well.
Caveat emptor.
I do agree their should be full content disclosure.
And I believe the US FDA already has the power on that
point if they chose to exercise it.
No, they do not. I have had this issue with the FDA and FTC and
they do not have it.
FDA may not have unique enforcement over supplements, but they have
the power to warn the public about products (herbs, for instance) they
consider potentially harmful. For example, Kava. Why isn't FDA
warning about more than a tiny percentage of supplements?
Most supplements are "do nothings", thus neither harmful or
beneficial for most people. The FDA, wisely, stays out of this
quagmire.
False. Most dietary supplements are designed to improve overall
nutritional status and do so. The term "do nothing" more aptly
describes prescription drugs which, except for their ability to cause
dangerous side effects, fail to treat or prevent almost any disease.
If I'm wrong, where is the published evidence? Oh, that's right. You
don't believe in the medical literature.
It's because, despite decades of use by the public, there is little
evidence of harm exceeding low-level allergic reactions in the vast
majority of such products. Even Kava is not proven to be harmful in
isolation from pre-existing hepatic disease or the use of alcohol. As
for FTC, it's scope of powers combined with DSHEA does provide a
framework for safety that has been working just fine. Your sponsors
may not like it, but that's too bad.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e-
Prove I have sponsors. Oh, that is right, I gave you the opportunity
to do so, and make some money while doing it, and you weaseled
out of it.
Your own words prove it. As someone famously once said, "You cannot
serve two masters."
Correct. I serve the truth.
Now, prove I have any other motivation.
Cue the weaseling.
[/quote:1a7d2b0f65]
The weaseling begins with your inability (or unwillingness) to answer
a question. You did not respond to the following point:
Most dietary supplements are designed to improve overall nutritional
status, and do so. The term "do nothing" more aptly describes
prescription drugs which, except for their ability to cause dangerous
side effects, fail to treat or prevent almost any disease. If I'm
wrong, where is the published evidence? Oh, that's right. You don't
believe in the medical literature. You can't even post a list of
medical books or sources that would have (for a legitimate poster)
informed your views and opinions. |
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