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Unified FPGA Development Suite...

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Message

Jon Slaughter...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:18 pm

Guest

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

Jon Slaughter...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:43 pm

Guest

"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:haoqug$35j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
[quote:a5d60fc455]Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light
versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even
get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could
get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.
[/quote:a5d60fc455]
BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC
or similar if necessary.

Jon Slaughter...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:54 pm

Guest

Looking at
[quote:e1c8618e1d]the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
[/quote:e1c8618e1d]
Which is probably going to create a bit of work to create a programmer
unless someone has already done it for the pic's.

Charlie E....

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:42 pm

Guest

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:43:11 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote:5b97ff510d]
"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:haoqug$35j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light
versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even
get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could
get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC
or similar if necessary.

Ok, take a look at Altium. I think they only really support three[/quote:5b97ff510d]
manufacturers, but for $399 you can get their Xilinx development board
to try things out!

Charlie

krw...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:04 pm

Guest

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote:b8a2dced53]Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.
[/quote:b8a2dced53]
I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It
worked fine at work though.

You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If
you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary
libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's
tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor
and is generally only done by those that either need really big
devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned
logic.

[quote:b8a2dced53]Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers?
[/quote:b8a2dced53]
Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even
opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently
anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though.

[quote:b8a2dced53]How hard is it to program?
[/quote:b8a2dced53]
Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy.
Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools).

[quote:b8a2dced53]I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually).
[/quote:b8a2dced53]
FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on.
They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices
will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will
add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs)
tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable
or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app).

[quote:b8a2dced53]Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player.
[/quote:b8a2dced53]
USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to
program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to
update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards.

[quote:b8a2dced53]Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.
[/quote:b8a2dced53]
IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not
that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway,
you might try opencores or try a web search.

krw...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:05 pm

Guest

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:43:11 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote:92612e5fcd]
"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:haoqug$35j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light
versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even
get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could
get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC
or similar if necessary.
[/quote:92612e5fcd]
Ick! You're going to pay through the nose for nothing.

John Larkin...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:14 pm

Guest

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:43:11 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote:e43c94746c]
"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:haoqug$35j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light
versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even
get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could
get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC
or similar if necessary.

[/quote:e43c94746c]
C++ is a procedural language. FPGAs are not procedural devices.

John

John Larkin...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:19 pm

Guest

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

[quote:aebd2b3e21]On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It
worked fine at work though.

You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If
you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary
libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's
tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor
and is generally only done by those that either need really big
devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned
logic.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers?

Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even
opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently
anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though.

How hard is it to program?

Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy.
Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools).

I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually).

FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on.
They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices
will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will
add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs)
tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable
or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app).

Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player.

USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to
program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to
update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards.

Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not
that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway,
you might try opencores or try a web search.
[/quote:aebd2b3e21]
You can program the Xilinx parts with three wires from a parallel port
and a little bit-banging code.

John

krw...

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:51 pm

Guest

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:19:01 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin at (no spam) highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

[quote:851cc03e6e]On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It
worked fine at work though.

You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If
you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary
libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's
tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor
and is generally only done by those that either need really big
devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned
logic.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers?

Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even
opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently
anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though.

How hard is it to program?

Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy.
Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools).

I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually).

FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on.
They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices
will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will
add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs)
tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable
or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app).

Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player.

USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to
program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to
update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards.

Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not
that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway,
you might try opencores or try a web search.

You can program the Xilinx parts with three wires from a parallel port
and a little bit-banging code.
[/quote:851cc03e6e]
Sure. You can do that with any of the SRAM based FPGAs via the serial
configuration port. SRAM based FPGAs need to be configured at every
power cycle though. Flash based FPGAs, of course, don't have to be
programmed each time but have no serial (or parallel) configuration
path, only JTAG. You could probably do JTAG programming that way too,
via the STAPL player path. It's something he could look for.

The other alternative is a CPLD (SRAM based, but flash built in),
though he's already memory limited with the smaller FPGAs. CPLDs are
even more limiting (trying to fit a design into a small, $2.50, Altera
MaxII now).

langwadt at (no spam) fonz.dk...

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:51 am

Guest

On 10 Okt., 04:43, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh... at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote:b3cb0ae17f]"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh... at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:haoqug$35j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light
versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even
get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could
get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC
or similar if necessary.
[/quote:b3cb0ae17f]
so what you really want to know is what hammer is best suited to work
with diffent types
of screws, nuts and bolts because screwdrivers and wrenches take up to
much space in
the toolbox ... ;)

pick an fpga that matches you needs, get and use the tools the
manufactures made for it,
you'll need their backend anyway. Program in verilog or vhdl thats
languages made for that
specific purpose

-Lasse

Jim Thompson...

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:33 am

Guest

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

[quote:07a84408ee]On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It
worked fine at work though.

You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If
you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary
libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's
tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor
and is generally only done by those that either need really big
devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned
logic.
[/quote:07a84408ee]
Is there a cheap synthesis tool for us poor analog guys that will
synthesize a modest sequential task (in gates)?

[quote:07a84408ee]
Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers?

Just the download cable? Sure, do a web search. I think even
opencores has a design for a JTAG cable. I saw it somewhere recently
anyway. My time is worth more than $50 or $100 though.

How hard is it to program?

Not sure what you're looking for. Programming the device is easy.
Creating the files is impossible (without the manufacturer's tools).

I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually).

FOr SRAM based designs you have to do this every time you power on.
They generally have a choice of programming methods. Small devices
will use either JTAG or a serial flash interface. Larger devices will
add a parallel interface option. Flash based devices (CPLDs or FPGAs)
tend to use JTAG. You can either program them using a USB/JTAG cable
or via an embedded micro (they have the tools to embed the JTAG app).

Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player.

USB to JTAG cable. It's a flash based device so you don't have to
program it on each power up, though it's a good idea to be able to
update it in-system, so STAPL is in the cards.

Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

IIRC Actel's download cable is $50 or so. Altera's is $150. It's not
that big of a deal. JTAG cables for UCs have similar costs. Anyway,
you might try opencores or try a web search.
[/quote:07a84408ee]
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

krw...

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:55 am

Guest

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:33:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon at (no spam) My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

[quote:0c750df422]On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It
worked fine at work though.

You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If
you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary
libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's
tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor
and is generally only done by those that either need really big
devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned
logic.

Is there a cheap synthesis tool for us poor analog guys that will
synthesize a modest sequential task (in gates)?
[/quote:0c750df422]
Not sure what you want to do. Describe a function in HDL and have it
spit out unit logic? I don't know of anything that does that. Some
tools have a logic viewer that might do it. I think Actel's is
included in the free tools, but I haven't used it yet (trying not to
use Actel, right now).

Charlie E....

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:18 pm

Guest

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
<Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

[quote:5abcb8736a]Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

Jon,[/quote:5abcb8736a]
Ok, thought about this a bit. Part of the problem is that the EDA
companies basically just provide a front end for the FPGA company's
tools. They don't try and duplicate that back end effort, it isn't
worth it for them. So, if you want to do more than just preliminary
designs for each vendor, you will still have to install X number of
starter editions for each vendor you want to try.

For the price, Altium at $3999 is probably the cheapest major company.
When paired with their nanoboards, you can get a decent development
platform to really try things out. Their latest nanoboard is only
$399 and comes with a years subscription to the front end software.

There may be other small players, like Proteus, but I am unfamiliar
with the tools.

Charlie

Jim Thompson...

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:55 pm

Guest

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:55:32 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

[quote:7831768687]On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:33:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon at (no spam) My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:04:43 -0500, krw <krw at (no spam) att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:18:47 -0500, "Jon Slaughter"
Jon_Slaughter at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

I had to download Libero four times at home before it would run. It
worked fine at work though.

You can use Synplify, or a number of others, as the front end tool. If
you buy the license directly from Synopsis with the necessary
libraries for all vendors, but you're stuck with the manufacturer's
tools for the back end. Be warned, this approach is not for the poor
and is generally only done by those that either need really big
devices (and pay through the nose already) or need really fine tuned
logic.

Is there a cheap synthesis tool for us poor analog guys that will
synthesize a modest sequential task (in gates)?

Not sure what you want to do. Describe a function in HDL and have it
spit out unit logic? I don't know of anything that does that. Some
tools have a logic viewer that might do it. I think Actel's is
included in the free tools, but I haven't used it yet (trying not to
use Actel, right now).
[/quote:7831768687]
Clearly I'm not a digital guy... at least beyond pure combinational
reduction, which I actually used to teach about 40 years ago.

What I'd like is some tool that took in a truth table, each line
representing states at that clock tick, spitting out gates, flops,
etc., to implement that ;-)

I know. I know. Hire you ? Smile

krw...

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:18 pm

Guest

On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT), "langwadt at (no spam) fonz.dk"
<langwadt at (no spam) fonz.dk> wrote:

[quote:e265b290f9]On 10 Okt., 04:43, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh... at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote:
"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh... at (no spam) Hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:haoqug$35j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...

Is there a development suite that is good but can target multiple fpga
manufactures? I don't really want to install a bunch of 1GB+ light
versions
for each manufacture just to see which one is best. In fact I can't even
get
libero to run because it crashes on startup.

Also, know of any links for DIY fpga programmers? How hard is it to
program? I figured that one just has to feed a bitstream into the fpga
similar to how a pic is programmed(or most devices actually). Looking at
the proASIC's makes me think it's a bit different but I haven't found any
conclusive way to program them except by using DirectC or the STAPL
Player.
Since I'm experimenting with these different manufactures I don't want to
have to buy a programmer for each chip. For as much as they cost I could
get
nanoboard with 10^10x the functionality.

BTW, I forgot to mention that I want to program in C++. Pure C++ but SystemC
or similar if necessary.

so what you really want to know is what hammer is best suited to work
with diffent types
of screws, nuts and bolts because screwdrivers and wrenches take up to
much space in
the toolbox ... Wink

[/quote:e265b290f9]
I like the analogy.

[quote:e265b290f9]pick an fpga that matches you needs, get and use the tools the
manufactures made for it,
you'll need their backend anyway. Program in verilog or vhdl thats
languages made for that
specific purpose
[/quote:e265b290f9]
Unless, for some reason, you're pushing the envelop, this is the only
way to go. Third party tools are very good, but incredibly costly. If
the performance, or device size, isn't needed the manufacturer's tools
work very well now. The only possible exception is simulation where
the manufacturer's tools are limited (crippleware versions of
ModelSim, usually). ModelSim is expensive too, though.

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