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| Jon... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:19 am |
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Guest
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Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
Jon |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:03 pm |
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On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
[quote:e8f45a0b64]Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
[/quote:e8f45a0b64]
---
I already replied to this on alt.electronics, where you didn't
crosspost, and I'm crossposting it to sci.electronics.basics for good
measure.
You don't need a relay: (View in Courier)
HOT NEUT
| |
+---O-->\ <--O--+
| \ |
| O |
| | |
| | |
HOUSE | | |
--------|---------|--------|------
| | |
--------|---------|--------|------
GARAGE | | |
| | |
| [LAMP] |
| | |
| O |
| / |
+---O-->/ <--O--+
| |
| |
+---[RECEPTACLE]---+ |
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| Bryce... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:33 pm |
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John Fields wrote:
[quote:74cc9ead43]On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon"
jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3
conductors. How do you utilize them to provide both
constant power from house to garage, and 3-way switching
for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
---
I already replied to this on alt.electronics, where you
didn't crosspost, and I'm crossposting it to
sci.electronics.basics for good measure.
You don't need a relay: (View in Courier)
HOT NEUT
| |
+---O-->\ <--O--+
| \ |
| O |
| | |
| | |
HOUSE | | |
--------|---------|--------|------
| | |
--------|---------|--------|------
GARAGE | | |
| | |
| [LAMP] |
| | |
| O |
| / |
+---O-->/ <--O--+
| |
| |
+---[RECEPTACLE]---+
[/quote:74cc9ead43]
Is this acceptable by electrical code? Depending
on switch positions, the lamp's white wire may be
connected to neutral or hot, and in one set of
switch settings, both white and black are connected
to hot and the lamp is "off". |
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| krw... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:36 pm |
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On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com>
wrote:
[quote:006dd0b62f]Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
[/quote:006dd0b62f]
X10.
[quote:006dd0b62f]I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
Jon
[/quote:006dd0b62f] |
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| John G.... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:45 am |
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"Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:zqOdnQL8PciyX03XnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...
[quote:56abf8c364]Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and
3-way switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
Jon
Would seem to be against code because a copper conductor is normally now[/quote:56abf8c364]
required from building (house) entry ground point to all recepticles.
John G. |
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| ehsjr... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:07 pm |
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Jon wrote:
[quote:d5959a046b]Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
Jon
[/quote:d5959a046b]
You can do it simply: one SPDT relay and one 3-way switch in the
garage, and a regular switch in the house.
House Garage
------------------- ------------------------------------
| | | |
| House | | |
| Switch | | |
| o----------------rly1---------------------+ |
| +---o | | | |
| | | | o-------o | |
| hot----+-------------------+---o o---lite---+ |
| | | | o-------o | |
| neut---+ | | | Garage | |
| | | | [Recpt] Switch | |
| | | | | | |
| +-------------------+----------------------------+ |
| | | |
------------------- ------------------------------------
Switching the neutral is a NEC violation - the arrangement
above avoids doing that.
Ed |
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| Jamie... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:39 pm |
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ehsjr wrote:
[quote:d7b9cda7a5]Jon wrote:
Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do
you utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage,
and 3-way switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
Jon
You can do it simply: one SPDT relay and one 3-way switch in the
garage, and a regular switch in the house.
House Garage
------------------- ------------------------------------
| | | |
| House | | |
| Switch | | |
| o----------------rly1---------------------+ |
| +---o | | | |
| | | | o-------o | |
| hot----+-------------------+---o o---lite---+ |
| | | | o-------o | |
| neut---+ | | | Garage | |
| | | | [Recpt] Switch | |
| | | | | | |
| +-------------------+----------------------------+ |
| | | |
------------------- ------------------------------------
Switching the neutral is a NEC violation - the arrangement
above avoids doing that.
Ed
finally, some one that knows something![/quote:d7b9cda7a5]
I take my hat off to you sir!  |
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| MooseFET... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:02 am |
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On Oct 10, 10:19 am, "Jon" <jon8... at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
[quote:22761425ff]Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
Jon
[/quote:22761425ff]
If you only want to draw power when the light is on:
.
----------------------------------------------------+----Outlet
! D1 . D3 !
! O----!<--- R1 . ---!<---o o
AC-+---> +---/\/-----------+ <--+-- <---Light
O---->!--- . --->!---o ! )
D2 . D4 === ) K1
. C1 ! )
neut---------------------------------------------+--+--------
.
buried
D1..D4 are 1N400x
R1 is about 1K surge rated
C1 is a 22uF
K1 Omron G8P series with 110V coil |
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| Jan Panteltje... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:57 am |
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Guest
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On a sunny day (Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:39:49 -0400) it happened Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_ at (no spam) charter.net> wrote in
<PzvAm.88060$4t6.74117 at (no spam) newsfe06.iad>:
[quote:de4e10a677]House Garage
------------------- ------------------------------------
| | | |
| House | | |
| Switch | | |
| o----------------rly1---------------------+ |
| +---o | | | |
| | | | o-------o | |
| hot----+-------------------+---o o---lite---+ |
| | | | o-------o | |
| neut---+ | | | Garage | |
| | | | [Recpt] Switch | |
| | | | | | |
| +-------------------+----------------------------+ |
| | | |
------------------- ------------------------------------
Switching the neutral is a NEC violation - the arrangement
above avoids doing that.
Ed
finally, some one that knows something!
[/quote:de4e10a677]
Yea, but it swallows relay current if house swich left on 100% of the time.
What we need a a PIC solution
LOL |
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| ehsjr... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:17 am |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
[quote:108355102c]On a sunny day (Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:39:49 -0400) it happened Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_ at (no spam) charter.net> wrote in
PzvAm.88060$4t6.74117 at (no spam) newsfe06.iad>:
House Garage
------------------- ------------------------------------
| | | |
| House | | |
| Switch | | |
| o----------------rly1---------------------+ |
| +---o | | | |
| | | | o-------o | |
| hot----+-------------------+---o o---lite---+ |
| | | | o-------o | |
| neut---+ | | | Garage | |
| | | | [Recpt] Switch | |
| | | | | | |
| +-------------------+----------------------------+ |
| | | |
------------------- ------------------------------------
Switching the neutral is a NEC violation - the arrangement
above avoids doing that.
Ed
finally, some one that knows something!
Yea, but it swallows relay current if house swich left on 100% of the time.
[/quote:108355102c]
Yes, it's tragic, a real strain on the budget. The relay coil
(e.g Omron G2R) draws 7.5 mA at 120 VAC when the house switch is on.
At say 10 cents per kwh, it would cost you 78.84 _cents_ per _year_
if you left the house switch on 24/7.
Ed
[quote:108355102c]
What we need a a PIC solution
LOL[/quote:108355102c] |
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| Jamie... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:15 am |
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Guest
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
[quote:66f70fe110]On a sunny day (Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:39:49 -0400) it happened Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_ at (no spam) charter.net> wrote in
PzvAm.88060$4t6.74117 at (no spam) newsfe06.iad>:
House Garage
------------------- ------------------------------------
| | | |
| House | | |
| Switch | | |
| o----------------rly1---------------------+ |
| +---o | | | |
| | | | o-------o | |
| hot----+-------------------+---o o---lite---+ |
| | | | o-------o | |
| neut---+ | | | Garage | |
| | | | [Recpt] Switch | |
| | | | | | |
| +-------------------+----------------------------+ |
| | | |
------------------- ------------------------------------
Switching the neutral is a NEC violation - the arrangement
above avoids doing that.
Ed
finally, some one that knows something!
Yea, but it swallows relay current if house swich left on 100% of the time.
What we need a a PIC solution
LOL
Yes, you could also use magnetic toggle or rotary relays with a[/quote:66f70fe110]
momentary switch at any point on the line. We do that here for
our garage using a rotary relay. We have 3 operating points in the
garage and one in the house using 3 wire/w grd in a sealed PVC pipe
under ground. We also have a #6 4 conductor cable running out there.
That cable runs outlets and some heavy equipment. |
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| JosephKK... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:01 am |
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Guest
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On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:03:04 -0500, John Fields
<jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
[quote:d05b1bb3c8]On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
---
I already replied to this on alt.electronics, where you didn't
crosspost, and I'm crossposting it to sci.electronics.basics for good
measure.
You don't need a relay: (View in Courier)
HOT NEUT
| |
+---O-->\ <--O--+
| \ |
| O |
| | |
| | |
HOUSE | | |
--------|---------|--------|------
| | |
--------|---------|--------|------
GARAGE | | |
| | |
| [LAMP] |
| | |
| O |
| / |
+---O-->/ <--O--+
| |
| |
+---[RECEPTACLE]---+
[/quote:d05b1bb3c8]
John F you should have looked at his link. |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:32 am |
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On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:01:44 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote:637da21020]On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:03:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
---
I already replied to this on alt.electronics, where you didn't
crosspost, and I'm crossposting it to sci.electronics.basics for good
measure.
You don't need a relay: (View in Courier)
HOT NEUT
| |
+---O-->\ <--O--+
| \ |
| O |
| | |
| | |
HOUSE | | |
--------|---------|--------|------
| | |
--------|---------|--------|------
GARAGE | | |
| | |
| [LAMP] |
| | |
| O |
| / |
+---O-->/ <--O--+
| |
| |
+---[RECEPTACLE]---+
John F you should have looked at his link.
[/quote:637da21020]
---
What makes you think I didn't? |
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| JosephKK... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:21 am |
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Guest
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On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:32:15 -0500, John Fields
<jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
[quote:18735fcd6e]On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:01:44 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:03:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
---
I already replied to this on alt.electronics, where you didn't
crosspost, and I'm crossposting it to sci.electronics.basics for good
measure.
You don't need a relay: (View in Courier)
HOT NEUT
| |
+---O-->\ <--O--+
| \ |
| O |
| | |
| | |
HOUSE | | |
--------|---------|--------|------
| | |
--------|---------|--------|------
GARAGE | | |
| | |
| [LAMP] |
| | |
| O |
| / |
+---O-->/ <--O--+
| |
| |
+---[RECEPTACLE]---+
John F you should have looked at his link.
---
What makes you think I didn't?
[/quote:18735fcd6e]
Because he included your circuit and gave you credit for it in that
page. I would thus have expected a different response that reposting
your circuit.
Skal |
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| John Fields... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:38 am |
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Guest
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On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 09:21:39 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue at (no spam) yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote:893558e47c]On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:32:15 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:01:44 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue at (no spam) yahoo.com
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:03:04 -0500, John Fields
jfields at (no spam) austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:19:42 -0400, "Jon" <jon8338 at (no spam) peoplepc.com> wrote:
Switching Circuit
A buried wire between house and garage has only 3 conductors. How do you
utilize them to provide both constant power from house to garage, and 3-way
switching for lights in the garage at either house or garage?
I used two 3-way switches and a relay.
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/jon8338/math/id50.html
---
I already replied to this on alt.electronics, where you didn't
crosspost, and I'm crossposting it to sci.electronics.basics for good
measure.
You don't need a relay: (View in Courier)
HOT NEUT
| |
+---O-->\ <--O--+
| \ |
| O |
| | |
| | |
HOUSE | | |
--------|---------|--------|------
| | |
--------|---------|--------|------
GARAGE | | |
| | |
| [LAMP] |
| | |
| O |
| / |
+---O-->/ <--O--+
| |
| |
+---[RECEPTACLE]---+
John F you should have looked at his link.
---
What makes you think I didn't?
Because he included your circuit and gave you credit for it in that
page. I would thus have expected a different response that reposting
your circuit.
[/quote:893558e47c]
---
If I hadn't followed his link, how would I have been able to determine
what his wiring looked like and suggest a way to get rid of the relay?
The sequence of events was:
1. He posted his link.
2. I followed it, modified the circuit, and posted the mods and some
info about crossposting.
3. Ed posted a fix for my neutral-switching error.
4. The OP read my post, and Ed's, and posted them to his site, showing
them as mods to his circuit.
Any other way would be the cart leading the horse, no?
JF |
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