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| duke... |
 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:18 am |
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Guest
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On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:20:59 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]duke wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:48:52 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:02:49 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:02:48 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:47:55 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
Mankind as looked to a supreme being since man walked on 2 feet. That's not the
point. Even in Moses' time, Ramses looked to a wooded statue of a jackal as his
god. No resurrection there.
There is no evidence of this at all. Even the Neanderthals seem to have
had a vague concept of the afterlife, but so do elephants.
Neanderthals - that's what I said. Elephants - did they tell you that?
The supreme
being idea arose in Classical times. China has survived thousands of
years without it.
You're confusing your neanderthals with your chinese.
Chinese what?
What ever you're talking about.
You'll have to do better than that, old chap.
It's good enough for me.
Rather my point, I think.
Then cruise onward in your ignorance, old chap.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
While it is true that I suffer from "invincible ignorance" in the
special sense used by the Church of Rome, this is not the same as
ignorance in its everyday meaning.
[/quote]
In your case, it is.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| Matt Giwer... |
| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:43 pm |
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Guest
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't know
this.
[/quote]
Perhaps but who told you and why did you believe them? Now you claim
to know them. That means you have direct observation, a basis for this
knowledge. So were you told or is this direct observation?
If you were told, why did you believe them.
If direct knowledge what did you observe?
--
A biblical archaeologist is like an astrological astronomer
or an alchemical chemist. None are scientists.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4199
http://www.giwersworld.org/bible/sewer-bible.phtml a15
Sun Nov 1 22:27:35 EST 2009 |
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| duke... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:11 am |
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Guest
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:43:02 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't know
this.
Perhaps but who told you and why did you believe them? Now you claim
to know them. That means you have direct observation, a basis for this
knowledge. So were you told or is this direct observation?
[/quote]
It's constantly being referenced in Christianity. The concept of the OT
prefiguring the NT is a significant part of religious observation and belief.
Sinless Jesus replacing the sinful Adam, Mary said "let it be done to me
according to your will" replacing the Eve who said "I'll decide and not God".
Many of the OT books speak in terms of the coming Messiah.
The old covenant (agreement) with the Jews being old and worn out and in need of
replacement by the new covenant (agreement).
It's a consistent theme throughout the bible.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| Martin Edwards... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:56 am |
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Guest
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duke wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:34:32 -0400, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:23:41 -0400, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:02:15 -0400, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:53:58 -0400, Matt Giwer <jull43 at (no spam) tampabay.rr.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:53:05 -0700 (PDT), George <gblack at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On Oct 22, 1:14 am, duke <duckgumb... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
Your mythology books were written after Christ.
Riiiight.
You really don't know anything about history do you....
There is no true history in mythology.
The resurrection you claim remains a copycat of other gods.
There are no other resurrections. There are no other gods. Perhaps
you can name another "god", and then show **writings** about it that
are older than 2000 years older.
Plutarch, in his Lives ("Alcibiades," XVIII), speaking of the
sailing of the Greek fleet for Syracuse in the year 415 B.C., says: "It
was an evil omen that the festival of Adonis fell in those days.
Numbers of women bore images, like dead bodies, and held mock funerals;
and they mourned and chanted the solemn hymns." After three days in
hell Adonis was born again. He is also the "hebrew" god Adonai.
Cultural references to the rebirth mythology
Death of Adonis, by Luca Giordano.The myth of the death and rebirth of
Adonis has featured prominently in a variety of cultural and artistic
works.
Including Christianity without difference or distinction save in the
nature of the miracles which go along with it.
Not a chance. Adonis is not a Christian figure,but a mythical figure from
Greek lit.
Jesus was not a Christian. He was a character from Galilean
mythology.
YOU........are a character from a Roman mythology.
The dude was born from a tree. Haahaahaahaahaa.
In what way is a virgin less miraculous?
God.
You said a miracle. I gave you a miracle. By your definition a
miracle requires a god.
And there was no dude born from a tree. Haahaahaahaahaa.
Does the Y in Yahweh indicate the nature of his divine sperm?
Yahweh is a Jewish name.
What does a name matter? What is he doing with sperm? I thought you
guys claimed you god was not material.
That's right.
How does Isis and Osiris differ from Madonna and Child?
Isis and Osiris never existed.
There is as much evidence for their existence as for Jesus.
Nope, isis and osiris never existed. You can find them in the index of the
Mythology book.
Some day you might ask yourself why your god deliberately imitated
existing god stories. Why not something original instead? Was it
necessary to take advantage of existing superstitions to gain
credibility?
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
That does not tell me why there was nothing original. It is clear
you god immitated other gods.
Nothing came before Almighty God. We know he existed at least 13.7 billion
years ago. After all, he created the universe and all in it.
We know this how?[/quote]
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie |
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| Martin Edwards... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:57 am |
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Guest
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duke wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:19:01 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:23:41 -0400, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:02:15 -0400, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:53:58 -0400, Matt Giwer <jull43 at (no spam) tampabay.rr.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:53:05 -0700 (PDT), George <gblack at (no spam) hnpl.net> wrote:
On Oct 22, 1:14 am, duke <duckgumb... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
Your mythology books were written after Christ.
Riiiight.
You really don't know anything about history do you....
There is no true history in mythology.
The resurrection you claim remains a copycat of other gods.
There are no other resurrections. There are no other gods. Perhaps
you can name another "god", and then show **writings** about it that are
older than 2000 years older.
Plutarch, in his Lives ("Alcibiades," XVIII), speaking of the
sailing of the Greek fleet for Syracuse in the year 415 B.C., says: "It
was an evil omen that the festival of Adonis fell in those days. Numbers
of women bore images, like dead bodies, and held mock funerals; and they
mourned and chanted the solemn hymns." After three days in hell Adonis
was born again. He is also the "hebrew" god Adonai.
Cultural references to the rebirth mythology
Death of Adonis, by Luca Giordano.The myth of the death and rebirth of
Adonis has featured prominently in a variety of cultural and artistic
works.
Including Christianity without difference or distinction save in the
nature of the miracles which go along with it.
Not a chance. Adonis is not a Christian figure,but a mythical figure from Greek
lit.
The dude was born from a tree. Haahaahaahaahaa.
In what way is a virgin less miraculous?
God.
Does the Y in Yahweh indicate the nature of his divine sperm?
Yahweh is a Jewish name.
How does Isis and Osiris differ from Madonna and Child?
Isis and Osiris never existed.
Some day you might ask yourself why your god deliberately imitated
existing god stories. Why not something original instead? Was it necessary
to take advantage of existing superstitions to gain credibility?
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
As it didn't. Many of the literary tropes were simply repeated, that's
all.
Then you don't understand that the OT prefigures the NT and the arrival of the
Messiah.
I understand the proposition, but it is wrong.[/quote]
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie |
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| Martin Edwards... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:58 am |
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Guest
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duke wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't know this.
Knowledge entails truth. The proposition is untrue, and can therefore[/quote]
not be known.
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie |
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| Back to top |
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| Martin Edwards... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:59 am |
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Guest
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duke wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:43:02 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't know
this.
Perhaps but who told you and why did you believe them? Now you claim
to know them. That means you have direct observation, a basis for this
knowledge. So were you told or is this direct observation?
It's constantly being referenced in Christianity. The concept of the OT
prefiguring the NT is a significant part of religious observation and belief.
It is, however, nothing to do with history.[/quote]
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie |
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| Back to top |
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| Martin Edwards... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:00 am |
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Guest
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duke wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:20:59 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:48:52 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:02:49 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:02:48 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:47:55 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
Mankind as looked to a supreme being since man walked on 2 feet. That's not the
point. Even in Moses' time, Ramses looked to a wooded statue of a jackal as his
god. No resurrection there.
There is no evidence of this at all. Even the Neanderthals seem to have
had a vague concept of the afterlife, but so do elephants.
Neanderthals - that's what I said. Elephants - did they tell you that?
The supreme
being idea arose in Classical times. China has survived thousands of
years without it.
You're confusing your neanderthals with your chinese.
Chinese what?
What ever you're talking about.
You'll have to do better than that, old chap.
It's good enough for me.
Rather my point, I think.
Then cruise onward in your ignorance, old chap.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
While it is true that I suffer from "invincible ignorance" in the
special sense used by the Church of Rome, this is not the same as
ignorance in its everyday meaning.
In your case, it is.
Fuck off.[/quote]
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie |
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| Back to top |
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| Matt Giwer... |
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:21 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
[quote]On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:43:02 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't
know this.
Perhaps but who told you and why did you believe them? Now you claim
to know them. That means you have direct observation, a basis for this
knowledge. So were you told or is this direct observation?
It's constantly being referenced in Christianity. The concept of the OT
prefiguring the NT is a significant part of religious observation and
belief.
[/quote]
What is the point? The folks who wrote the NT clearly knew the OT.
In fact they knew of more books than we do considering some of the "is it
not written" lines because we have no OT books where such things are
written. Seeing similar content is hardly surprising.
[quote]Sinless Jesus replacing the sinful Adam, Mary said "let it be done to me
according to your will" replacing the Eve who said "I'll decide and not
God".
[/quote]
Who told you that and why did you believe them?
[quote]Many of the OT books speak in terms of the coming Messiah.
[/quote]
Why does that surprise you when you know the NT creators were using
the OT to create their stories?
[quote]The old covenant (agreement) with the Jews being old and worn out and in
need of replacement by the new covenant (agreement).
[/quote]
Why told you that and why did you believe them? I mean not just the
worn out part but also the idea there was a contract.
[quote]It's a consistent theme throughout the bible.
[/quote]
What else would one expect? So what?
You are still not answering the basic question. Who told you these
things and why did you believe what they told you?
--
Between religion and science, only religion can retreat.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4185
http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/GAZA-pics/ a13
Mon Nov 2 19:15:38 EST 2009 |
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| duke... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:49 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:56:29 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]Nothing came before Almighty God. We know he existed at least 13.7 billion
years ago. After all, he created the universe and all in it.
We know this how?
[/quote]
He's the supreme creator. God is his name.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| duke... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:50 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:57:27 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]Then you don't understand that the OT prefigures the NT and the arrival of the
Messiah.
I understand the proposition, but it is wrong.
[/quote]
Why is it wrong when it is well illustrated in the bible?
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| duke... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:50 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:59:31 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:43:02 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't know
this.
Perhaps but who told you and why did you believe them? Now you claim
to know them. That means you have direct observation, a basis for this
knowledge. So were you told or is this direct observation?
It's constantly being referenced in Christianity. The concept of the OT
prefiguring the NT is a significant part of religious observation and belief.
It is, however, nothing to do with history.
[/quote]
It is historical.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| duke... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:54 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:21:37 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 22:43:02 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, duke wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:17:12 -0500, Matt Giwer <matt at (no spam) localhost> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, duke wrote:
Speaking like that doesn't understand the OT prefigured the NT.
A simple question.
Who told you all this stuff and why did you believe them?
A more legit question is how you could actually admit that you didn't
know this.
Perhaps but who told you and why did you believe them? Now you claim
to know them. That means you have direct observation, a basis for this
knowledge. So were you told or is this direct observation?
It's constantly being referenced in Christianity. The concept of the OT
prefiguring the NT is a significant part of religious observation and
belief.
What is the point? The folks who wrote the NT clearly knew the OT.
[/quote]
But of course, and watched as the Messiah arrived, fulfilled the prophecies,
died on the cross, rose on the 3rd day, and ascended to the Father 40 days
later.
[quote]Sinless Jesus replacing the sinful Adam, Mary said "let it be done to me
according to your will" replacing the Eve who said "I'll decide and not
God".
Who told you that and why did you believe them?
[/quote]
It's in the bible.
[quote]Many of the OT books speak in terms of the coming Messiah.
Why does that surprise you when you know the NT creators were using
the OT to create their stories?
[/quote]
Fulfillment of the OT.
[quote]The old covenant (agreement) with the Jews being old and worn out and in
need of replacement by the new covenant (agreement).
Why told you that and why did you believe them? I mean not just the
worn out part but also the idea there was a contract.
[/quote]
Covenant = agreement.
[quote]It's a consistent theme throughout the bible.
What else would one expect? So what?
[/quote]
Now you know what you didn't know before.
[quote] You are still not answering the basic question. Who told you these
things and why did you believe what they told you?
[/quote]
It's the only reality that makes sense.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| duke... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:54 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:00:02 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]duke wrote:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:20:59 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:48:52 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:02:49 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:02:48 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
duke wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:47:55 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
Mankind as looked to a supreme being since man walked on 2 feet. That's not the
point. Even in Moses' time, Ramses looked to a wooded statue of a jackal as his
god. No resurrection there.
There is no evidence of this at all. Even the Neanderthals seem to have
had a vague concept of the afterlife, but so do elephants.
Neanderthals - that's what I said. Elephants - did they tell you that?
The supreme
being idea arose in Classical times. China has survived thousands of
years without it.
You're confusing your neanderthals with your chinese.
Chinese what?
What ever you're talking about.
You'll have to do better than that, old chap.
It's good enough for me.
Rather my point, I think.
Then cruise onward in your ignorance, old chap.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
While it is true that I suffer from "invincible ignorance" in the
special sense used by the Church of Rome, this is not the same as
ignorance in its everyday meaning.
In your case, it is.
Fuck off.
[/quote]
Welcome to the world.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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| Martin Edwards... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:11 am |
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Guest
|
duke wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:56:29 +0000, Martin Edwards <big_mart_98 at (no spam) Yahoo.com
wrote:
Nothing came before Almighty God. We know he existed at least 13.7 billion
years ago. After all, he created the universe and all in it.
We know this how?
He's the supreme creator. God is his name.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
My question was we know this how?[/quote]
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie |
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| Back to top |
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The time now is Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:23 pm
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