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| Gunner Asch... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:07 pm |
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Guest
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On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:13:36 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<bobengelhardt at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
[quote:55abd83a65]Ignoramus30647 wrote:
...
With this one, all I have to do is follow the chart.
Years ago there was a cartoonist who did one-frame cartoons, a version
of which was "Famous last words". Why am I reminded of them? <G
Bob
[/quote:55abd83a65]
Indeed!!!
Gunner
GUNNER'S PRAYER:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the people
that don't need to get shot, the courage to shoot
the people that need shooting and the wisdom to know the difference.
And if need be, the skill to get it done before I have to reload."
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| fran...123... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:17 pm |
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"Ignoramus30647" <ignoramus30647 at (no spam) NOSPAM.30647.invalid> wrote in message
news:HM2dnfBaSo_eXFHXnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote:3b4407ee5d]On 2009-10-07, SteveB <oldfart at (no spam) depends.com> wrote:
Steve... I wanted to hear that... Thanks...
I hope you got the message I was trying to send. And that is that
now you are experienced enough to know that these three processes do
three very different things arriving at three different results.
You have learned that 7018 is a rod, but now you understand just how
it welds different than other rods.
Yep.
And so it is with the welding processes. So, yes!, having MIG will
give you a process that will allow you to weld items that are best
done with MIG. There are things that are best MIGged, Tigged, OA's
and stick welded.
Just one thing that crossed my mind, but with this Millermatic 251,
and proper selection of parameters, I could instantly get better
looking welds than I would with stick.
[/quote:3b4407ee5d]
I sense a conflict in the last sentence. instantly and properly selecting
the right parameters. I know the new computerized stuff has like 100 saved
parameters so if one had that sort of equipment and already been there once.
Do you have some 3/16 7024? I have some of this stuff which is far from
fresh and with some simple flame heating instead of rod oven before using at
least in a flat butt joing delivers as nice a result as one could ask for
with just about no skill just hold and let the coating crumble. The flux
removes itself also in this position about six inches away from the arc.
Fran
> i |
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| TinLizziedl... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:07 pm |
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Guest
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In article <kfoup6-rds.ln1 at (no spam) news.infowest.com>, oldfart at (no spam) depends.com
says...
[quote:9ecfcfd0e0]
"fran...123" <storkensteinremove at (no spam) cox.net> wrote
With
the wire feed system you might find you grind more especially if you don't
have the knobs set quite right and want to improve.
Fran
With the machine Iggy has, the adjustment allows you to fine tune. IIRC
from my Millermatic 200, the heat is in stages, but it's not as bad as some,
this one being not enough, this one being too hot. Gas has a lot to do with
it, too. Argon/CO2 has less spatter, but is a lot more. Plain CO2 will
give you fine spatter that STICKS. Depends on the results you want.
Steve
[/quote:9ecfcfd0e0]
Choice of shielding gas also affects weld penetration and bead profile,
too. 100% Ar will give less penetration but better profile than 100%
CO2. A popular mix is 95% Ar 5% CO2. This gives enough Argon for good
shielding and arc plasma characteristics, with enough CO2 for good
penetration, but not enough CO2 to cause the sticky spatter.
Some can get away with using 75/25 (Ar/CO2) for both mig and dual-shield
(flux core), but I personally don't care for how that mix runs for mig.
--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long |
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| Joe Pfeiffer... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:58 pm |
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Bob Engelhardt <bobengelhardt at (no spam) comcast.net> writes:
[quote:d89e06c62b]Gunner Asch wrote:
...
Get a good Mig..the Miller 251 is a very good machine and learn how to
use it. You will find that it becomes #1 on your welding list.
...
I have a friend who's been building custom cars for 30 years & who
only has a (good) MIG to do it with. I.e., he has a lot of experience
with it.
When his backhoe frame cracked I told him that I'd bring over my
stick. But he welded it with his MIG & it was never a problem. When
the cast iron water boiler for his home heating cracked, he welded it
with his MIG & it held. No pre- or post- heat, no special wire, no
peening. I was REALLY impressed.
[/quote:d89e06c62b]
I really think the real point of the MIG vs. $other comments that have
come up, and especially "good looking MIG falls apart" remarks, is that
when you've got a good-looking oxy or stick weld, you almost (almost!)
certainly have a good weld. A good-looking MIG weld may be good, or it
may be a pretty bead with no penetration. I'm a pretty unskilled
amateur, and have had too many MIG welds I thought were good fall apart
(hopefully I'm getting fewer of these with time). But somebody who is
good at it (I hope I'm clear I'm not saying I'm one of these people!)
can get just as good a weld with MIG as anything else, and anybody who
claims MIG is inherently weak is just extrapolating their experience
(either with themselves as the welder or somebody else)
inappropriately.
Though I'm surprised at a good weld (MIG or otherwise) on cast iron
without any of the steps I'm told are necessary to get one.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin) |
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| Gunner Asch... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:20 pm |
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Guest
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On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:07:44 -0700, TinLizziedl <nothere at (no spam) donttry.com>
wrote:
[quote:6bd9d7afe0]In article <kfoup6-rds.ln1 at (no spam) news.infowest.com>, oldfart at (no spam) depends.com
says...
"fran...123" <storkensteinremove at (no spam) cox.net> wrote
With
the wire feed system you might find you grind more especially if you don't
have the knobs set quite right and want to improve.
Fran
With the machine Iggy has, the adjustment allows you to fine tune. IIRC
from my Millermatic 200, the heat is in stages, but it's not as bad as some,
this one being not enough, this one being too hot. Gas has a lot to do with
it, too. Argon/CO2 has less spatter, but is a lot more. Plain CO2 will
give you fine spatter that STICKS. Depends on the results you want.
Steve
Choice of shielding gas also affects weld penetration and bead profile,
too. 100% Ar will give less penetration but better profile than 100%
CO2. A popular mix is 95% Ar 5% CO2. This gives enough Argon for good
shielding and arc plasma characteristics, with enough CO2 for good
penetration, but not enough CO2 to cause the sticky spatter.
Some can get away with using 75/25 (Ar/CO2) for both mig and dual-shield
(flux core), but I personally don't care for how that mix runs for mig.
[/quote:6bd9d7afe0]
Im perfectly happy with straight CO2 for 99% of my welds. That last 1%
is a cosmetic issue..and I dont run into much of that in my sorts of
welding. If I need pretty..I fire up the TIG.
Straight CO2 allows me to burn deeper into rusty Stuff and get a weld
that I know is going to stick both pieces together permanantly. And
shit is it cheap!!
Shrug...Ive got at least 4 full bottles of 75/25 in the racks..big ones,
a couple bottles of straight argon, at least one with helium in it for
TIG..big tig..and hummm at least 4 bottles of straight Argon for Tig.
Crom...I just realized Ive got a fucking truckload of bottles out there!
Sigh..now I need to figure out how to rack em neatly where I can get to
them easily. Thank Crom we dont get snow here in the high
desert..least..not much every 5-10 yrs
Gunner, bottle poor...<G>...cleaned out a factory.....<VBG>
GUNNER'S PRAYER:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the people
that don't need to get shot, the courage to shoot
the people that need shooting and the wisdom to know the difference.
And if need be, the skill to get it done before I have to reload."
0 |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:32 pm |
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Guest
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"TinLizziedl" <nothere at (no spam) donttry.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2537055a26f4d470989731 at (no spam) news.west.earthlink.net...
[quote:3b0e9a016e]In article <kfoup6-rds.ln1 at (no spam) news.infowest.com>, oldfart at (no spam) depends.com
says...
"fran...123" <storkensteinremove at (no spam) cox.net> wrote
With
the wire feed system you might find you grind more especially if you
don't
have the knobs set quite right and want to improve.
Fran
With the machine Iggy has, the adjustment allows you to fine tune. IIRC
from my Millermatic 200, the heat is in stages, but it's not as bad as
some,
this one being not enough, this one being too hot. Gas has a lot to do
with
it, too. Argon/CO2 has less spatter, but is a lot more. Plain CO2 will
give you fine spatter that STICKS. Depends on the results you want.
Steve
Choice of shielding gas also affects weld penetration and bead profile,
too. 100% Ar will give less penetration but better profile than 100%
CO2. A popular mix is 95% Ar 5% CO2. This gives enough Argon for good
shielding and arc plasma characteristics, with enough CO2 for good
penetration, but not enough CO2 to cause the sticky spatter.
Some can get away with using 75/25 (Ar/CO2) for both mig and dual-shield
(flux core), but I personally don't care for how that mix runs for mig.
--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long
[/quote:3b0e9a016e]
I once was given a tank of Nitrogen instead of a mixed gas. It welded like
crap! Took me a couple of minutes to notice the sticker.
We used to use the 75/25 mix with .072 Innershield on an automated bug doing
oilfield caisson welding. 36" dia. 1.5" wall thickness. That worked pretty
well, but that was with a lot of amps. Different from the usual .045
Innershield.
Steve |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:35 pm |
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"Joe Pfeiffer" <pfeiffer at (no spam) cs.nmsu.edu> wrote in message
news:1br5tebhwy.fsf at (no spam) snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net...
[quote:76723da2d9]Bob Engelhardt <bobengelhardt at (no spam) comcast.net> writes:
Gunner Asch wrote:
...
Get a good Mig..the Miller 251 is a very good machine and learn how to
use it. You will find that it becomes #1 on your welding list.
...
I have a friend who's been building custom cars for 30 years & who
only has a (good) MIG to do it with. I.e., he has a lot of experience
with it.
When his backhoe frame cracked I told him that I'd bring over my
stick. But he welded it with his MIG & it was never a problem. When
the cast iron water boiler for his home heating cracked, he welded it
with his MIG & it held. No pre- or post- heat, no special wire, no
peening. I was REALLY impressed.
I really think the real point of the MIG vs. $other comments that have
come up, and especially "good looking MIG falls apart" remarks, is that
when you've got a good-looking oxy or stick weld, you almost (almost!)
certainly have a good weld. A good-looking MIG weld may be good, or it
may be a pretty bead with no penetration. I'm a pretty unskilled
amateur, and have had too many MIG welds I thought were good fall apart
(hopefully I'm getting fewer of these with time). But somebody who is
good at it (I hope I'm clear I'm not saying I'm one of these people!)
can get just as good a weld with MIG as anything else, and anybody who
claims MIG is inherently weak is just extrapolating their experience
(either with themselves as the welder or somebody else)
inappropriately.
Though I'm surprised at a good weld (MIG or otherwise) on cast iron
without any of the steps I'm told are necessary to get one.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
[/quote:76723da2d9]
Some of the things you have to do when welding thick with MIG is turn up the
heat (duh) and to turn the wirefeed speed faster than where it is a spray,
but almost a submerged arc, and the wire is almost digging out the base
metal. Movement of the nozzle is critical to point it at the place you want
to melt, maintaining a big puddle is important, and of course the angles and
push vs. pull have a great deal to do with the final result. With the
wirespeed high, you almost HAVE to use a pushing movement.
Steve |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:37 pm |
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Guest
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"Gunner Asch" <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:77tqc5puh0ph06kk3u1le1v77ai177umk3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
[quote:8803383a06]On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:07:44 -0700, TinLizziedl <nothere at (no spam) donttry.com
wrote:
In article <kfoup6-rds.ln1 at (no spam) news.infowest.com>, oldfart at (no spam) depends.com
says...
"fran...123" <storkensteinremove at (no spam) cox.net> wrote
With
the wire feed system you might find you grind more especially if you
don't
have the knobs set quite right and want to improve.
Fran
With the machine Iggy has, the adjustment allows you to fine tune. IIRC
from my Millermatic 200, the heat is in stages, but it's not as bad as
some,
this one being not enough, this one being too hot. Gas has a lot to do
with
it, too. Argon/CO2 has less spatter, but is a lot more. Plain CO2 will
give you fine spatter that STICKS. Depends on the results you want.
Steve
Choice of shielding gas also affects weld penetration and bead profile,
too. 100% Ar will give less penetration but better profile than 100%
CO2. A popular mix is 95% Ar 5% CO2. This gives enough Argon for good
shielding and arc plasma characteristics, with enough CO2 for good
penetration, but not enough CO2 to cause the sticky spatter.
Some can get away with using 75/25 (Ar/CO2) for both mig and dual-shield
(flux core), but I personally don't care for how that mix runs for mig.
Im perfectly happy with straight CO2 for 99% of my welds. That last 1%
is a cosmetic issue..and I dont run into much of that in my sorts of
welding. If I need pretty..I fire up the TIG.
Straight CO2 allows me to burn deeper into rusty Stuff and get a weld
that I know is going to stick both pieces together permanantly. And
shit is it cheap!!
Shrug...Ive got at least 4 full bottles of 75/25 in the racks..big ones,
a couple bottles of straight argon, at least one with helium in it for
TIG..big tig..and hummm at least 4 bottles of straight Argon for Tig.
Crom...I just realized Ive got a fucking truckload of bottles out there!
Sigh..now I need to figure out how to rack em neatly where I can get to
them easily. Thank Crom we dont get snow here in the high
desert..least..not much every 5-10 yrs
Gunner, bottle poor...<G>...cleaned out a factory.....<VBG
GUNNER'S PRAYER:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the people
that don't need to get shot, the courage to shoot
the people that need shooting and the wisdom to know the difference.
And if need be, the skill to get it done before I have to reload."
[/quote:8803383a06]
I really need to make a trip to your house if I ever get any extra money.
Steve |
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| Gunner Asch... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:42 am |
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Guest
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On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 23:37:32 -0600, "SteveB" <oldfart at (no spam) depends.com> wrote:
[quote:26f2eb1960]
"Gunner Asch" <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:77tqc5puh0ph06kk3u1le1v77ai177umk3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:07:44 -0700, TinLizziedl <nothere at (no spam) donttry.com
wrote:
In article <kfoup6-rds.ln1 at (no spam) news.infowest.com>, oldfart at (no spam) depends.com
says...
"fran...123" <storkensteinremove at (no spam) cox.net> wrote
With
the wire feed system you might find you grind more especially if you
don't
have the knobs set quite right and want to improve.
Fran
With the machine Iggy has, the adjustment allows you to fine tune. IIRC
from my Millermatic 200, the heat is in stages, but it's not as bad as
some,
this one being not enough, this one being too hot. Gas has a lot to do
with
it, too. Argon/CO2 has less spatter, but is a lot more. Plain CO2 will
give you fine spatter that STICKS. Depends on the results you want.
Steve
Choice of shielding gas also affects weld penetration and bead profile,
too. 100% Ar will give less penetration but better profile than 100%
CO2. A popular mix is 95% Ar 5% CO2. This gives enough Argon for good
shielding and arc plasma characteristics, with enough CO2 for good
penetration, but not enough CO2 to cause the sticky spatter.
Some can get away with using 75/25 (Ar/CO2) for both mig and dual-shield
(flux core), but I personally don't care for how that mix runs for mig.
Im perfectly happy with straight CO2 for 99% of my welds. That last 1%
is a cosmetic issue..and I dont run into much of that in my sorts of
welding. If I need pretty..I fire up the TIG.
Straight CO2 allows me to burn deeper into rusty Stuff and get a weld
that I know is going to stick both pieces together permanantly. And
shit is it cheap!!
Shrug...Ive got at least 4 full bottles of 75/25 in the racks..big ones,
a couple bottles of straight argon, at least one with helium in it for
TIG..big tig..and hummm at least 4 bottles of straight Argon for Tig.
Crom...I just realized Ive got a fucking truckload of bottles out there!
Sigh..now I need to figure out how to rack em neatly where I can get to
them easily. Thank Crom we dont get snow here in the high
desert..least..not much every 5-10 yrs
Gunner, bottle poor...<G>...cleaned out a factory.....<VBG
GUNNER'S PRAYER:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the people
that don't need to get shot, the courage to shoot
the people that need shooting and the wisdom to know the difference.
And if need be, the skill to get it done before I have to reload."
I really need to make a trip to your house if I ever get any extra money.
Steve
Sigh..I know the feeling. My total liquid assets are below $80 at the[/quote:26f2eb1960]
moment, with two small checks (allegedly) in the mail.
And not very damned much work in the immediate future. Ive been home
since Friday night, working around the homestead, taking care of some
long set aside projects..setting others aside as they need cash to
complete.....hoping I can buy critter food next week.
Got Lots of stuff for sale...no buyers. Not a lot of cash floating
around California these days..now with 16%+ unemployment...up to 35% in
some places.
Gunner
GUNNER'S PRAYER:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the people
that don't need to get shot, the courage to shoot
the people that need shooting and the wisdom to know the difference.
And if need be, the skill to get it done before I have to reload."
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| TinLizziedl... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:42 am |
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Guest
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[quote:838cd5819f]
Got Lots of stuff for sale...no buyers. Not a lot of cash floating
around California these days..now with 16%+ unemployment...up to 35% in
some places.
Gunner
[/quote:838cd5819f]
Where at in CA? My spousal unit has family in south and central
California, and once in a great while we go road-tripping to San
Bernadino, Redlands, Yucaipa, and into the eL-Alien outskirts. I would
love to come back home with a welding machine....
Where I'm at, if it wasn't for the navy base here, town wouldn't exist.
You cannot really tell that there is a recession locally, but there are
a couple more empty storefronts in the mall than usual. Homebuilding
has screeched to a halt, though, and everyone is trying to get contracts
with NavFac.
--
Tin Lizzie
"People who go broke in a big way never miss any meals. It is the poor
jerk who is shy a half-slug who must tighten his belt." -Lazarus Long |
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| Ignoramus19678... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:49 am |
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Guest
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Gunner, none of what you want to sell is unsellable. If you cannot
sell, you are simply asking too much. Ask a little less and it will
all be snapped up in a hurry, especialy if you can deliver to Los
Angeles.
i |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:37 am |
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Guest
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"Gunner Asch" <gunner at (no spam) NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote
[quote:e4dfcc7278]Got Lots of stuff for sale...no buyers. Not a lot of cash floating
around California these days..now with 16%+ unemployment...up to 35% in
some places.
Gunner
[/quote:e4dfcc7278]
Got some smokin' deals this last couple of weeks at pawn shops. They say
people are pawning stuff, but no one is buying. They must be getting about
nothing when they pawn an item.
Steve |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:39 am |
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Guest
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"Ignoramus19678" <ignoramus19678 at (no spam) NOSPAM.19678.invalid> wrote in message
news:fa6dnc3y6qZpZlDXnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote:335f622d71]Gunner, none of what you want to sell is unsellable. If you cannot
sell, you are simply asking too much. Ask a little less and it will
all be snapped up in a hurry, especialy if you can deliver to Los
Angeles.
i
[/quote:335f622d71]
I thought this was your problem. I'll give you $5 each for the gas bottles.
The BIG ones! But you have to throw in a working 4 ton pallet jack.
Steve  |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:41 am |
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Guest
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"Ignoramus19678" <ignoramus19678 at (no spam) NOSPAM.19678.invalid> wrote in message
news:fa6dnc3y6qZpZlDXnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote:4690ce46d9]Gunner, none of what you want to sell is unsellable. If you cannot
sell, you are simply asking too much. Ask a little less and it will
all be snapped up in a hurry, especialy if you can deliver to Los
Angeles.
i
[/quote:4690ce46d9]
I once told a guy who was at my yard sale, trying to get everything for next
to nothing,
"Oh, you were looking for the SALVATION ARMY. That's down the street, and
they have free stuff."
Steve |
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| SteveB... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:44 am |
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Guest
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"Ignoramus19678" <ignoramus19678 at (no spam) NOSPAM.19678.invalid> wrote in message
news:fa6dnc3y6qZpZlDXnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d at (no spam) giganews.com...
[quote:9046eb53af]Gunner, none of what you want to sell is unsellable. If you cannot
sell, you are simply asking too much. Ask a little less and it will
all be snapped up in a hurry, especialy if you can deliver to Los
Angeles.
i
[/quote:9046eb53af]
I thought this was your problem. I'll give you $5 each for the gas bottles.
The BIG ones! But you have to throw in a working 4 ton pallet jack.
Steve ;-)
BTW, deliver them to 1556 River Drive, St. George, Utah. Call ahead and
make sure I'm not golfing or fishing. If I am, just wait, and I'll return
eventually.
Steve |
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