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| Sam West... |
 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:16 am |
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On Oct 12, 3:07 pm, pv+use... at (no spam) pobox.com (PV) wrote:
[quote:4570983018]Sam West <smante... at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
According to the documents I have seen from Mr. Mook a single panel
production plant the size of a large bottling plant, handling the same
amount of liquids and plastic as a typical bottling plant, along with
a wafer fab making silicon dies with windows in them, and a silicon
foundry as a source of silicon, transforms the energy business in the
USA by making enough panels in 15 years to make enough hydrogen a day
Get back to us when someone is actually doing it. If it's that economically
viable, we'd see that happening. We don't. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
Mook has a few projects underway. He says he's organizing his supply[/quote:4570983018]
chain, but yeah, I'd be a helluva lot happier if more were happening,
that's for sure. I think you'll see more when the supply chain is
functioning and panels are rolling out of the factory into the field -
not just sitting on a bench somewhere or in a test fixture. |
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| Charlie E.... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:25 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:16:13 -0700 (PDT), Sam West
<smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:a154eab4a4]On Oct 12, 3:07 pm, pv+use... at (no spam) pobox.com (PV) wrote:
Sam West <smante... at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
According to the documents I have seen from Mr. Mook a single panel
production plant the size of a large bottling plant, handling the same
amount of liquids and plastic as a typical bottling plant, along with
a wafer fab making silicon dies with windows in them, and a silicon
foundry as a source of silicon, transforms the energy business in the
USA by making enough panels in 15 years to make enough hydrogen a day
Get back to us when someone is actually doing it. If it's that economically
viable, we'd see that happening. We don't. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
Mook has a few projects underway. He says he's organizing his supply
chain, but yeah, I'd be a helluva lot happier if more were happening,
that's for sure. I think you'll see more when the supply chain is
functioning and panels are rolling out of the factory into the field -
not just sitting on a bench somewhere or in a test fixture.
[/quote:a154eab4a4]
Exactly. According to the timetables he gave us a couple of years
ago, by now he should have at least one plant fully up and
operational, churning out panels at a mile a day. Unfortunately, we
haven't seen this. We should be getting pictures from him on his
website of hillsides in Indonesia covered with panels. We haven't
seen this. There should be a market for his rejects here in the US,
where hobbiests take partially functioning panels and rehab them for
homes and workshops, but we haven't seen this.
Charlie |
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| PV... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:01 pm |
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Sam West <smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
[quote:724209a68a]Mook has a few projects underway.
[/quote:724209a68a]
The only "proof" of that is a small amount of old crap on the web. Show us
an actual facility, or just shut the hell up about it. He's been saying the
same thing you years, with nothing to show for it but some crappy webpages
on incubator sites that anyone can make pages on. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews. |
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| Sam West... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:32 am |
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In 2004 OPEC went off their $22 per barrel price cap. In December Mr.
Mook made a proposal to the Bush Administration to buy 250 million
barrels of his syncrude at $25 per barrel for the SPR, something the
President could do, particularly since no money would change hands
until syncrude was delivered. There would be an immediate benefit
though. It would send a clear signal to the oil companies the US
wouldn't pay more than $25 per barrel for oil.
The word came back, arrange financing and you'll have your order. In
early 2005 Mook arranged $6.3 billion financing with Epstein & Co
doing the mezzanine level with other investment banking operations
like AIG and Lehman Brothers doing the heavy lifting, underwriting the
forward contracts on NYMEX.
This is the time the plans you describe were initially made. Mook was
to develop a greenfield site in Lawrence County Pennsylvania to build
a $1.2 billion panel production facility as you describe. Completion
date was late 2008, and full scale syncrude production (200,000
barrels per day) in 2010.
This didn't happen because those companies Mr. Mook had arranged
financing with ran into a buzz-saw of difficulties. I believe those
difficulties were engineered by those who would be hurt by Mr. Mook's
success. In the 1,700 days between then and now the US has paid $8
trillion more than they would have had Mr. Mook's syncrude been traded
on NYMEX.
America's banking system, and financial system, would be far different
had we not paid that $8 trillion and kept it in our pockets.
With an $8.57 per barrel production price, and $23.57 per barrel
selling price, a 200,000 b/d facility produces $3 million per day in
gross margins. $1.1 billion per year - which translates to $25
billion present value- four times the amount of money needed to create
the supply chain and build the facility. Once the first facility were
up and running, Mr. Mook would have been able to leverage existing
production to expand production at a tremendous rate! Providing he
didn't overpay for the first facility. Structuring the project as an
energy deal - allows this to happen, and allows him to give the oil
companies a run for their money with very little opportunity for them
to use their superior capital position to obtain absolute control of
the technology and limit its rate of introduction.
In March 2005 Mr. Epstein was replaced as head of his own fund as
charges were brought against him in Florida. In April 2005 Mr.
Johnson, a Mok Industries angel investor was forced to declare
bankruptcy owing $53 million after several contractors refused
payments on key projects his company was involved with. This
circumstance forced Mr. Mook to seek projects outside the USA.
Indonesia was suggested since they had no love of the major oil
companies, and because they were the very first OPEC nation to begin
importing oil in 2004.
Reversing this flow of oil using Mook's processes would send a
powerful signal that we really don't have energy shortages, and would
help contain prices. Instead of developing high priced reserves in
out of the way places, significant money would be invested in
practical alternatives to oil, resulting ultimately in a hydrogen
economy and far less carbon release over the next 15 years.
Two coal reserves were evaluated and projects were developed around
them as the new starting point. One on the island of Sumatra.
Another on the island of Borneo (Kalimantan). Together they totaled 2
billion tons of carbon and together they represented 14 billion
barrels of syncrude using Mr. Mooks solar-assisted Bergius process.
Mr. Mook planned to produce 200,000 b/d at each facility, and build
his supply chain around the conversion of existing wafer-fabs in
Britain and Switzerland, with Lawrence county PA coming later as the
system expanded. Mook syncrude output would start at 400,000 b/d in
2011 and grow to 1,400,000 b/d in 2015.
Initial agreements were signed in August 2006 in Jakarta, and
financing agreed to in September 2006 in Dubai. Work was begun, with
panel production to start in 2009, and synfuel facilities to be
completed and running at full capacity in 2011 with expansion after
that.
Work had begun by January 2007. Due to changes in the financial
markets in the summer of 2007, financing was extended, and by fall of
2007, delayed. The meltdown of the global financial markets starting
in Spring of 2008 and extending through winder 2008 - has halted
progress on Mr. Mook's plans.
At present Mr. Mook is organizing solar powered desalination systems
at select sites in Australia, UAE, Cyprus, and will expand upon
these. Each site totals 3 acres of collectors, and taken together
they provide a 30 acre backlog which is sufficient to pay for minimal
tooling while achieving a price point to make water at a decent cost
at these sites. In all locales these proof-of-concept systems will
result in larger scale purchases of hydrogen to fire up other gas
fired systems reducing their carbon footprint to zero. As the
installations grow, Mook will achieve his price point needed to sell
hydrogenated coal products competitively.
In Ohio Mr. Mook is also offering up to 850 gas production units
totalling 1/10th acre each at an 87 acre site near Marion Ohio. This
brownfield site is a depleted gas field with a gas gathering system
already in place and tied to gas transmission lines that supply major
utilities in Ohio. Mr. Mook is offering utilities a means to meet
their solar portfolio standards by switching from natural gas to
hydrogen gas made with sunlight. The Mok system makes hydrogen gas
from sunlight and water when the sun shines, injects that hydrogen
into depleted gas wells. The hydrogen mobilizes stationary reserves.
The mobilized reserves along with the hydrogen is produced and sent to
utilities to fire their gas fired plants. 5,000 tons per month of
hydrogen allows FirstEnergy for example, to meet ALL of its portfolio
needs. An additional 50,000 tons per month of mobilized natural gas
is also produced from the depleted wells used for storage. This site
will be expanded as a hydrogen storage site as Mook expands his panels
to tens of thousands of acres in the region. Ohio has over 450,000
acres of brownfield sites under ODNR control. Another 500,000 acres
of privately held brownfields exists in the State.
My understanding in speaking with Mr. Mook is that he intends to
leverage small scale production contracts for water and hydrogen gas
into the creation of a SPAC listed on the NYSE. Then he will merge
distressed coal companies and oil retailers with his proven hydrogen
supplies to create an integrated oil company worth far more than any
of the pieces acquired for the mergers. This will allow Mook to
expand his panel production to the levels envisioned in 2005 -
STARTING in 2010 - and bring the Indonesian projects back on track
operating in 2014, and the first US facility operating in 2015.
Targets include, Westmoreland Coal, transfer of mature surface mines
(less than 7 years of supply left but large surface areas to reclaim
with solar panels) from Arch and Peabody, acquisition of Sunoco and
Valero, and the acquisition of other publicly traded companies
important to Mook's supply chain.
As mentioned, a single 200,000 barrel per day synfuel facility making
syncrude in a market with oil under $24 per barrel, is worth $25
billion. In a market with oil worth $74 per barrel, that facility is
worth $110 billion. So, the completion of the two facilities in
Indonesia, an another facility in the US using Westmoreland's coal
supply, provides the economic muscle to do the other acquisitions.
Discounted at VC rates, $110 billion in 2015 is worth $20 billion in
2010. This combined with success of the 100 acres of installations
now going in, is leveraged to tell a compelling story at the right
time.
In the end Valero, Sunoco, Westmoreland, aging assets from Peabody and
Arch, are assembled for less than $20 billion to create a merger
called SUNVAL 'energy from the clear blue sky' - this is a TRILLION
DOLLAR COMPANY that sells 4 million barrels per day of gasoline at
10,500 retail locations, has 38,805 employees, dozens of refineries,
over 30 billion barrels equivalent reserves, 15,200 miles of
pipelines. Sunval is well positioned to work closely with major auto
companies to develop a hydrogen supply and service network for
hydrogen automobiles. Sunval will also acquire major fuel cell
companies and supply hydrogen to the home to make electricity there
cleanly and efficiently and service hydrogen homes alongside hydrogen
autos from its 10,500 retail locations - all before 2018. |
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| PV... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:00 pm |
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Guest
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Sam West <smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
[quote]In 2004 OPEC went off their $22 per barrel price cap. In December Mr.
Mook made a proposal to the Bush Administration to buy 250 million
barrels of his syncrude at $25 per barrel for the SPR, something the
President could do, particularly since no money would change hands
until syncrude was delivered. There would be an immediate benefit
[/quote]
Uh huh. Prove it or shut up. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews. |
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| Charlie E.... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:09 pm |
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Guest
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On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam West
<smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Sam,
Lots of plans, some 'these should be in play now', but no proof or
data. Pictures of solar panels rolling off a machine, acres in
indonesia or australia covered with those panel, etc. would go a long
way towards lowering the bogusity meter.
Charlie |
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| Sam West... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:17 pm |
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| Don Lancaster... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:20 pm |
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Charlie E. wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam West
smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Sam,
Lots of plans, some 'these should be in play now', but no proof or
data. Pictures of solar panels rolling off a machine, acres in
indonesia or australia covered with those panel, etc. would go a long
way towards lowering the bogusity meter.
Charlie
[/quote]
Ya mean like this? ---> <http://www.nanosolar.com/>
<http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf>
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don at (no spam) tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
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| Charlie E.... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:35 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:20:50 -0700, Don Lancaster <don at (no spam) tinaja.com>
wrote:
[quote]Charlie E. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam West
smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Sam,
Lots of plans, some 'these should be in play now', but no proof or
data. Pictures of solar panels rolling off a machine, acres in
indonesia or australia covered with those panel, etc. would go a long
way towards lowering the bogusity meter.
Charlie
Ya mean like this? ---> <http://www.nanosolar.com/
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf
[/quote]
Exactly! Data, practically has costs available, and production
schedules. Will have to look for their home systems! |
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| Don Lancaster... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:14 pm |
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Guest
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Charlie E. wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:20:50 -0700, Don Lancaster <don at (no spam) tinaja.com
wrote:
Charlie E. wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT), Sam West
smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Sam,
Lots of plans, some 'these should be in play now', but no proof or
data. Pictures of solar panels rolling off a machine, acres in
indonesia or australia covered with those panel, etc. would go a long
way towards lowering the bogusity meter.
Charlie
Ya mean like this? ---> <http://www.nanosolar.com/
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf
Exactly! Data, practically has costs available, and production
schedules. Will have to look for their home systems!
[/quote]
Home systems do not make ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER.
Unless you LEASE them from the power company.
The CIGS folks do not have the least interest in retail sales.
It is clearly utilities all the way.
Economy of scale is quite strong for pv solar.
Not remotely in the same league as coal or nuclear, but quite strong
nevertheless.
<http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf>
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don at (no spam) tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
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| Sam West... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:03 am |
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On Oct 20, 12:24 pm, pv+use... at (no spam) pobox.com (PV) wrote:
[quote]Sam West <smante... at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
Don has got a lot of details right in his power point. Don, there is
a radio-button that selects printing a slide without any margins on
the print menu. You should redo the print out with that change for
easier reading.
People actually getting work done don't post their marketing materials via
scribd. That's where documents crawl off to die. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
[/quote]
This doesn't look like marketing materials exactly |
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| PV... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:21 am |
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Don Lancaster <don at (no spam) tinaja.com> writes:
[quote]Ya mean like this? ---> <http://www.nanosolar.com/
[/quote]
No question nanosolar is cool and they're actually getting panels built,
unlike the horseshit we regularly see here. What we don't know is the real
cost per peak watt - their published statements have varied from 35 cents
to a dollar. This early in the game, it's probably closer to the dollar
figure if not higher than that.
Their efficiency isn't as sucky as we were first led to believe either -
they're close to par with good (if not the best) silicon cells. If solar is
ever going to be the solution to anything, thin film is going to be the way
it happens. Buying a large silicon based system has never been a worse
idea. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews. |
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| PV... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:22 am |
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Charlie E. <edmondson at (no spam) ieee.org> writes:
[quote]Exactly! Data, practically has costs available, and production
schedules. Will have to look for their home systems!
[/quote]
They're not selling to consumers. All of it is getting sucked up by pilot
power plants. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews. |
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| PV... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:24 am |
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Guest
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Sam West <smantenna at (no spam) gmail.com> writes:
[quote]Don has got a lot of details right in his power point. Don, there is
a radio-button that selects printing a slide without any margins on
the print menu. You should redo the print out with that change for
easier reading.
[/quote]
People actually getting work done don't post their marketing materials via
scribd. That's where documents crawl off to die. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews. |
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| Don Lancaster... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:11 am |
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PV wrote:
[quote]Don Lancaster <don at (no spam) tinaja.com> writes:
Ya mean like this? ---> <http://www.nanosolar.com/
No question nanosolar is cool and they're actually getting panels built,
unlike the horseshit we regularly see here. What we don't know is the real
cost per peak watt - their published statements have varied from 35 cents
to a dollar. This early in the game, it's probably closer to the dollar
figure if not higher than that.
Their efficiency isn't as sucky as we were first led to believe either -
they're close to par with good (if not the best) silicon cells. If solar is
ever going to be the solution to anything, thin film is going to be the way
it happens. Buying a large silicon based system has never been a worse
idea. *
[/quote]
Costs are certain to learning curve drop dramatically.
So present pricing (which remains a net energy sink) is not all that
meaningful.
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don at (no spam) tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
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