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| Kyle... |
 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:50 am |
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Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle |
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| Kyle... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:58 am |
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On Sep 30, 4:29 pm, Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig at (no spam) .- --- -. dotat> wrote:
[quote:8177bb47f3]On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Kyle
kyle.m.dougl... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
Lenses with mount or the glass barrels alone?
The best results are with a standard kitchen dishwasher machine
if the glasses can be removed.
w.
[/quote:8177bb47f3]
Typically within the mount. I am curious if there are any good guides
in general since this is a task that seems to be limited only to
learning from experienced individuals. Thanks.
Kyle |
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| Frogwatch... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:05 pm |
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On Sep 30, 5:20 pm, "anorton" <anor... at (no spam) removethis.ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
[quote:58a52e4ea9]"Kyle" <kyle.m.dougl... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dbfe5a49-c1ed-404b-b814-e65d720ea747 at (no spam) c37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
I have often thought that there should be a good scientific guide to
cleaning optics, but I do not know of one. There is too much tribal
knowledge and misguided superstition floating around. Some of the big optics
catalogs publish techniques with conflicting advice. One big issue is
whether alcohol should be used for cleaning aluminum-coated mirrors or not
(I have used it in very critical applications with good results).
Here is my tribal knowledge:
Pre-packaged alcohol pads do not work well because they are usually only 70%
alcohol. The droplets and streaks of water left behind as the alcohol
evaporates leave residue.
The secret to the wiping technique is to use a pure solvent (either acetone
or alcohol), and -- most importantly -- wipe no faster than the trailing
edge of the solvent evaporates. If you wipe too fast, you will leave behind
steaks that evaporate and leave residue. Most people find it easier to use
acetone since it evaporates more quickly. With good technique, you can even
use solvent that is not so pure. Make sure your tissue or cloth makes
contact with the surface along a clean straight line with no wrinkles. Apply
light even pressure across the cleaning edge and do not try to clean too
wide an area at once. I like to use the knit polyester cleanroom wipes.
Also, brush off any large particles before wiping.
If you have large, unmounted optics to clean, one of the best techniques is
to wash them (if the coatings and substrate can handle it) in a dilute
neutral detergent solution. Do the final rinse in DI water. Set on edge and
blow dry with clean, dry, compressed air carefully from the top to the
bottom.
If you have small optics that have to be REALLY clean, one option is to use
the First Contact polymer
http://www.photoniccleaning.com/
But it is expensive and takes several minutes to dry.
--
Adam Norton
Norton Engineered Opticswww.nortonoptics.com
(Remove antispam feature before replying)
[/quote:58a52e4ea9]
I clean optics every day. Here is how I do it. Get Palmolive
dishwashing liquid and dilute it 3 to 1 with water. Use this in your
ultra-sonic bath. Before the ultrasonic bath you might want to squirt
some acetone on the optics if they have nasty residue on them but
otherwise do not use acetone because it ALWAYS leaves residue that
must be cleaned with isopropyl alchohol. After a few minutes in the
ultra-sonic bath, pour distilled water over them. Then, use canned
air to blow all droplets off of them. I use 3M brand air bought by
the case from Wal Mart. If you leave any droplets on the optics, the
droplets will absorb stuff from the air and then leave residue when
they evaporate. |
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| Helmut Wabnig... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:29 pm |
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Guest
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On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Kyle
<kyle.m.douglass at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:157f1af664]Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
[/quote:157f1af664]
Lenses with mount or the glass barrels alone?
The best results are with a standard kitchen dishwasher machine
if the glasses can be removed.
w. |
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| anorton... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:20 pm |
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Guest
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"Kyle" <kyle.m.douglass at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dbfe5a49-c1ed-404b-b814-e65d720ea747 at (no spam) c37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
[quote:afd5ac7ec6]Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
[/quote:afd5ac7ec6]
I have often thought that there should be a good scientific guide to
cleaning optics, but I do not know of one. There is too much tribal
knowledge and misguided superstition floating around. Some of the big optics
catalogs publish techniques with conflicting advice. One big issue is
whether alcohol should be used for cleaning aluminum-coated mirrors or not
(I have used it in very critical applications with good results).
Here is my tribal knowledge:
Pre-packaged alcohol pads do not work well because they are usually only 70%
alcohol. The droplets and streaks of water left behind as the alcohol
evaporates leave residue.
The secret to the wiping technique is to use a pure solvent (either acetone
or alcohol), and -- most importantly -- wipe no faster than the trailing
edge of the solvent evaporates. If you wipe too fast, you will leave behind
steaks that evaporate and leave residue. Most people find it easier to use
acetone since it evaporates more quickly. With good technique, you can even
use solvent that is not so pure. Make sure your tissue or cloth makes
contact with the surface along a clean straight line with no wrinkles. Apply
light even pressure across the cleaning edge and do not try to clean too
wide an area at once. I like to use the knit polyester cleanroom wipes.
Also, brush off any large particles before wiping.
If you have large, unmounted optics to clean, one of the best techniques is
to wash them (if the coatings and substrate can handle it) in a dilute
neutral detergent solution. Do the final rinse in DI water. Set on edge and
blow dry with clean, dry, compressed air carefully from the top to the
bottom.
If you have small optics that have to be REALLY clean, one option is to use
the First Contact polymer
http://www.photoniccleaning.com/
But it is expensive and takes several minutes to dry.
--
Adam Norton
Norton Engineered Optics
www.nortonoptics.com
(Remove antispam feature before replying) |
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| Bob May... |
| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:12 pm |
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Some time ago, I did spot an article on cleaning telescope opttic nd they
used dishwashing detergent and water. I think that it was a site on
antique telescope maintaning. One of the sectrets was to not rub the glass
but rather let the detergent do its work and gently float the dirt off of
the glass with the weight of the wet towel.
--
Bob May
rmay at nethere.com
http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net |
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| Kyle... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:44 am |
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Thanks for the inputs. I have seen websites suggesting the use of
dishwashing detergent as well. It seems that compressed air/solvent
and lens tissue are the only way to clean optics that are in a mount
in a setup. Thanks again everyone.
Kyle |
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| ... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:28 am |
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Guest
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A caveat, if you put a coated laser mirror in a dishwasher or
ultrasound, soon you will not have a laser mirror.
We cover that in Sam's laser FAQ.
Steve |
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| Don Stauffer... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:02 am |
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Guest
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Kyle wrote:
[quote:addf97988a]Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
[/quote:addf97988a]
I would NOT use acetone on any coated lens. Our techs always used
isopropyl if there were no instructions on specific cleaning methods. I
don't think we had any coatings that were water soluble.
While iso is okay on most coated glass optics, apparently alcohols do
damage LCD screens. Advice seems to be use de-ionized water and very
mild soap. |
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| DougD... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:01 am |
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In article <307e318a-39ff-4d68-a242-d9d9d2004684 at (no spam) z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, Kyle <kyle.m.douglass at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:15df1e5b3b]On Sep 30, 4:29=A0pm, Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig at (no spam) .- --- -. dotat> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:50:54 -0700 (PDT), Kyle
kyle.m.dougl... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
Lenses with mount or the glass barrels alone?
The best results are with a standard kitchen dishwasher machine
if the glasses can be removed.
w.
Typically within the mount. I am curious if there are any good guides
in general since this is a task that seems to be limited only to
learning from experienced individuals. Thanks.
Kyle
[/quote:15df1e5b3b]
Well, one of the more sensitive things to clean are inter cavity optics on
lasers, the hight and output reflectors, brewster windows, etalons, etc.
The method tought to us that had to go through owners service courses
by Coherent, Spectra Physics was the clean and drag method. Their
manuals and service kits included methanol, however their own techs
and ours used electronic grade acetone. I've never had any bad experience
doing it that way, but you do have to be careful of any parts that might
be affected if you're cleaning optics in the mount. Also, one company
that I worked at was getting their ISO9200(?) rating and as part of the
maintenance of the process lasers, that was also the method that they
approved, however I had nothing to do with how that was figured into
the plan. It may have been that they just did not find anything objectionable
to an existing in house scheme in place and left it alone, not that it was
something that they came up with.
Anyway, it always works well for me!
d. |
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| anorton... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:19 pm |
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Guest
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"Don Stauffer" <stauffer at (no spam) usfamily.net> wrote in message
news:4ac4b67c$0$89384$815e3792 at (no spam) news.qwest.net...
[quote:6c8bfe9828]Kyle wrote:
Would anyone happen to know of any good guides for cleaning optics in
a research laboratory setting? Our group uses alcohol pads but I find
these to be very unsatisfactory because of the residue they leave. I
have used methanol and the "drag" method with lens tissue in the past,
but don't have access to methanol currently. Is acetone a suitable
organic solvent that doesn't streak? Thanks.
Kyle
I would NOT use acetone on any coated lens. Our techs always used
isopropyl if there were no instructions on specific cleaning methods. I
don't think we had any coatings that were water soluble.
While iso is okay on most coated glass optics, apparently alcohols do
damage LCD screens. Advice seems to be use de-ionized water and very mild
soap.
[/quote:6c8bfe9828]
Why do you advise against acetone on any coated lens? |
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| Richard J Kinch... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:26 pm |
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Frogwatch writes:
[quote:5de0f1c63a]Then, use canned
air to blow all droplets off of them. I use 3M brand air bought by
the case from Wal Mart.
[/quote:5de0f1c63a]
Caution: Canned dusters can easily and permanently ruin a lens coating if
you spit a bit of liquid instead of gas out of the can. Best to hold the
can down on a tabletop and move the lens in front of it than moving the
can.
Walmart dusters are loaded with a high concentration of bitterant. It
seems they all have that now, but the Falcon brand seems to be the least
concentrated. What a nuisance.
Ordinary shop compressed air is always too contaminated for cleaning
optics.
I bought a 30 lb jug of R134a from Sams Club and machined a duster tube for
the Acme fitting. Lifetime duster with no bitterant. |
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| Phil Hobbs... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:09 pm |
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Guest
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Kyle wrote:
[quote:b51858501c]Thanks for the inputs. I have seen websites suggesting the use of
dishwashing detergent as well. It seems that compressed air/solvent
and lens tissue are the only way to clean optics that are in a mount
in a setup. Thanks again everyone.
Kyle
[/quote:b51858501c]
Microfibre cloth does a good job if it's clean. Much better than Q
tips, anyway.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net |
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| Frogwatch... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:07 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 1, 6:09 pm, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel... at (no spam) electrooptical.net>
wrote:
[quote:10cc835c1b]Kyle wrote:
Thanks for the inputs. I have seen websites suggesting the use of
dishwashing detergent as well. It seems that compressed air/solvent
and lens tissue are the only way to clean optics that are in a mount
in a setup. Thanks again everyone.
Kyle
Microfibre cloth does a good job if it's clean. Much better than Q
tips, anyway.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net
[/quote:10cc835c1b]
Yeah, you do have to be careful about getting the liquid from the
canned air. Maybe I'll try the R134 trick.
BTW, there is a guy who always shows up at Microscopy shows with this
gadget attached to a CO2 cylinder where he uses CO2 snow to clean
optics, kinda interesting.
I'd forgo the acetone unless I needed to dissolve something. Just use
very dilute palmolive followed by distilled water from the grocery
store and then blow the droplets off with canned air.
I make x-ray optics. One day a representative from a govt scientific
agency I will not name called me up desperate to know how we cleaned
our optics. These are s'posed to be THE EXPERTS so I sorta danced
around what cleaner I used not wanting I used something as
unscientific as Palmolive. Finally they kept calling back and I had
to confess it was not some super expensive special x-ray optics
cleaning product but Palmolive from the grocery store. |
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| anorton... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:29 pm |
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Guest
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[quote:3f93f02dc1]
"Frogwatch" <dbohara at (no spam) mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:486f9f02-c7da-4b2a-9232-70ec3621bd92 at (no spam) m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 1, 6:09 pm, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel... at (no spam) electrooptical.net
wrote:
Kyle wrote:
Thanks for the inputs. I have seen websites suggesting the use of
dishwashing detergent as well. It seems that compressed air/solvent
and lens tissue are the only way to clean optics that are in a mount
in a setup. Thanks again everyone.
Kyle
Microfibre cloth does a good job if it's clean. Much better than Q
tips, anyway.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net
Yeah, you do have to be careful about getting the liquid from the
canned air. Maybe I'll try the R134 trick.
BTW, there is a guy who always shows up at Microscopy shows with this
gadget attached to a CO2 cylinder where he uses CO2 snow to clean
optics, kinda interesting.
I'd forgo the acetone unless I needed to dissolve something. Just use
very dilute palmolive followed by distilled water from the grocery
store and then blow the droplets off with canned air.
I make x-ray optics. One day a representative from a govt scientific
agency I will not name called me up desperate to know how we cleaned
our optics. These are s'posed to be THE EXPERTS so I sorta danced
around what cleaner I used not wanting I used something as
unscientific as Palmolive. Finally they kept calling back and I had
to confess it was not some super expensive special x-ray optics
cleaning product but Palmolive from the grocery store.
[/quote:3f93f02dc1]
I have seen the CO2 system also. I think there are a few reasons it is not
more popular. People who clean lots of optics have cheaper and faster
methods (e.g. Palmolive), and people who only clean optics occasionally can
not justify the cost and floor space it occupies. Also, it cools the
surface, so in many cases you have to keep the optic warm on a hot plate to
avoid forming water frost. This also can cause thermal shock issues.
By the way, Palmolive does not sound nearly as "unscientific" as Orvus Horse
Shampoo that was recommended to me many years ago. It does work well for
optics (neutral pH, no scent, no color). It is also used for fine textiles.
--
Adam Norton
Norton Engineered Optics
www.nortonoptics.com
(Remove antispam feature before replying) |
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