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| abc... |
 Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:46 pm |
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Guest
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Video shows egg-industry practice of grinding up live chicks
TEXT:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/09/video-shows-eggindustry-
practice-of-grinding-up-live-chicks.html
VIDEO: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/
(Images taken from hidden video at a Hy-Line plant in Spencer, Iowa,
show a worker tossing a male chick into a grinding chute, and chicks
being corralled for sorting)
Sunday, September 6, 2009
An animal-rights group campaigning against eating eggs has released
undercover video showing the standard hatchery practice of euthanizing
unwanted male chicks by tossing them alive into a grinder.
An employee with Chicago-based Mercy For Animals shot the video over
two weeks in May and June while working at a Hy-Line North America
hatchery in Spencer, Iowa. The Associated Press obtained the video
yesterday.
The video shows a hatchery worker sorting chirping chicks on a conveyor
belt, flipping some into a chute "like a poker dealer flips cards," AP
writes. The narrator says the chicks are male, and they are then seen
falling, alive, into a grinding machine.
Other footage shows a chick that had fallen through a sorter dying on
the factory floor, while another live chick is scaled by hot water.
"We have to ask ourselves, if these were puppies and kittens being
dropped into grinders, would we find that acceptable?" Nathan Runkle,
executive director of Mercy For Animals, said at a news conference
today in Des Moines. "I don't think that most people would."
A company spokesman told the AP today that an investigation was
continuing and that the company would release more information when
it's done. The video "appears to show an inappropriate action and
violation of our animal welfare policies," referring to the chicks on
the factory floor.
Morechicks090109
Live male chicks are tossed into grinders because they are seen as
having little value: they can't lay eggs or be raised quickly and
cheaply enough to be profitable as meat.
Hy-Line, the nation's largest egg producer, said such "instantaneous
euthanasia" is a standard practice supported by the animal veterinary
and scientific community. A spokesman for the egg industry group United
Egg Producers said that grinding "is the most instantaneous way to
euthanize chicks."
“There is, unfortunately, no way to breed eggs that only produce female
hens,” UEP spokesman Mitch Head told AP. “If someone has a need for 200
million male chicks, we’re happy to provide them to anyone who wants
them. But we can find no market, no need.”
An official with the Humane Society of the United States said there are
no federal regulations requiring humane euthanasia of animals on farms
or at hatcheries.
“Virtually all egg farms, even those that sell cage-free eggs, get
their hens from hatcheries that kill their male chicks.”
Hy-Line's animal-welfare policy reads, in part:
"[W]e are committed to the humane and respectful treatment of each
and every bird in our care. All of our employees are expected to be
advocates for animal welfare. We have developed and implemented welfare
policies that cover all aspects of bird management. Our employees and
cooperators are specifically trained on the proper methods of handling
birds to minimize distress or injury. ...
"Our flocks are under the supervision of caring veterinarians,
nutritionists and flock supervisors at all times. ...
The company asks the public to report "purposeful or willful neglect or
abuse of our birds by employees or agents of Hy-Line."
Read the complete policy here.
As part of its bid to end egg consumption, Mercy For Animals wants to
require that grocery chains post warnings on cartons telling consumers
about the killing of live chicks. |
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| Grizzly... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:59 pm |
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Guest
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abc wrote:
[quote:2ae44f0b17]
Video shows egg-industry practice of grinding up live chicks
TEXT:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/09/video-shows-eggindustry-
practice-of-grinding-up-live-chicks.html
VIDEO: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/
ve chicks.
What part of this do you not get? We eat them.. yum yum yum.. the[/quote:2ae44f0b17]
females are egg factories, the males are in this instance protein
supplements or fertilizer. This isn't rocket science. If you don't like
to eat animals don't do it. If enough others don't want it there will be
less of it happening. What you saw there was industry standard for
disposing of critters that don't pass muster. Those little roosters
would not be profitable as meat birds while the hens are prolific egg
layers. Do you eat eggs or baked goods? No I didn't think so..do you
have room for all the male chicks hatched? NO, I didn't think so. But
you must realize that plants have feelings too, so you'd best resort to
eating rocks, because the microbes in the soil might also...Life feeds
on life.. |
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| Grizzly... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:08 pm |
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Guest
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Grizzly wrote:
[quote:836ab24a99]abc wrote:
Video shows egg-industry practice of grinding up live chicks
TEXT:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/09/video-shows-eggindustry-
practice-of-grinding-up-live-chicks.html
VIDEO: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/
ve chicks.
What part of this do you not get? We eat them.. yum yum yum.. the
females are egg factories, the males are in this instance protein
supplements or fertilizer. This isn't rocket science. If you don't like
to eat animals don't do it. If enough others don't want it there will be
less of it happening. What you saw there was industry standard for
disposing of critters that don't pass muster. Those little roosters
would not be profitable as meat birds while the hens are prolific egg
layers. Do you eat eggs or baked goods? No I didn't think so..do you
have room for all the male chicks hatched? NO, I didn't think so. But
you must realize that plants have feelings too, so you'd best resort to
eating rocks, because the microbes in the soil might also...Life feeds
on life..
By the way, you would be tasty too if I were hungry enough. After all[/quote:836ab24a99]
you are a ready source of free range protein.. and in the event of near
starvation do to crazies like you limiting food sources I might just
have to look you in the eye, smile and say dear lord bless this food
which we are about to partake.. |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:28 am |
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Guest
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Grizzly wrote:
Do you eat eggs or baked goods? No I didn't
[quote:63b76ec3c5]think so..do you have room for all the male chicks hatched? NO, I
didn't think so. But you must realize that plants have feelings too,
so you'd best resort to eating rocks, because the microbes in the
soil might also...Life feeds on life.
[/quote:63b76ec3c5]
The best solution is to have fewer humans, like a population that this earth
could sustain without intensifying the agriculture - but then it was a
pretty harsh existance back in the day when that balance was more level.
There would be no internet or new fangled toys to play with because there
would be not enough people to make it all, as everyone would be busy in the
fields providing the next meal.
The only reason there is intensive agriculture of any kind -- arable or
livestock - is the arrogance of the humankind to believe that they are above
the forces of nature.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| A _L_ P... |
| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:37 pm |
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Guest
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Christina Websell wrote:
[quote:eb53733c1f]"abc" <abc at (no spam) 123.cl> wrote in message
news:20090907-014601.890.0 at (no spam) abc.shawnews.vc.shawcable.net...
Video shows egg-industry practice of grinding up live chicks
TEXT:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/09/video-shows-eggindustry-
practice-of-grinding-up-live-chicks.html
VIDEO: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/
(Images taken from hidden video at a Hy-Line plant in Spencer, Iowa,
show a worker tossing a male chick into a grinding chute, and chicks
being corralled for sorting)
Sunday, September 6, 2009
An animal-rights group campaigning against eating eggs has released
undercover video showing the standard hatchery practice of euthanizing
unwanted male chicks by tossing them alive into a grinder.
An employee with Chicago-based Mercy For Animals shot the video over
two weeks in May and June while working at a Hy-Line North America
hatchery in Spencer, Iowa. The Associated Press obtained the video
yesterday.
The video shows a hatchery worker sorting chirping chicks on a conveyor
belt, flipping some into a chute "like a poker dealer flips cards," AP
writes. The narrator says the chicks are male, and they are then seen
falling, alive, into a grinding machine.
Other footage shows a chick that had fallen through a sorter dying on
the factory floor, while another live chick is scaled by hot water.
"We have to ask ourselves, if these were puppies and kittens being
dropped into grinders, would we find that acceptable?" Nathan Runkle,
executive director of Mercy For Animals, said at a news conference
today in Des Moines. "I don't think that most people would."
A company spokesman told the AP today that an investigation was
continuing and that the company would release more information when
it's done. The video "appears to show an inappropriate action and
violation of our animal welfare policies," referring to the chicks on
the factory floor.
Morechicks090109
Live male chicks are tossed into grinders because they are seen as
having little value: they can't lay eggs or be raised quickly and
cheaply enough to be profitable as meat.
Hy-Line, the nation's largest egg producer, said such "instantaneous
euthanasia" is a standard practice supported by the animal veterinary
and scientific community. A spokesman for the egg industry group United
Egg Producers said that grinding "is the most instantaneous way to
euthanize chicks."
"There is, unfortunately, no way to breed eggs that only produce female
hens," UEP spokesman Mitch Head told AP. "If someone has a need for 200
million male chicks, we're happy to provide them to anyone who wants
them. But we can find no market, no need."
An official with the Humane Society of the United States said there are
no federal regulations requiring humane euthanasia of animals on farms
or at hatcheries.
"Virtually all egg farms, even those that sell cage-free eggs, get
their hens from hatcheries that kill their male chicks."
Hy-Line's animal-welfare policy reads, in part:
"[W]e are committed to the humane and respectful treatment of each
and every bird in our care. All of our employees are expected to be
advocates for animal welfare. We have developed and implemented welfare
policies that cover all aspects of bird management. Our employees and
cooperators are specifically trained on the proper methods of handling
birds to minimize distress or injury. ...
"Our flocks are under the supervision of caring veterinarians,
nutritionists and flock supervisors at all times. ...
The company asks the public to report "purposeful or willful neglect or
abuse of our birds by employees or agents of Hy-Line."
Read the complete policy here.
As part of its bid to end egg consumption, Mercy For Animals wants to
require that grocery chains post warnings on cartons telling consumers
about the killing of live chicks.
If we support sex-linked battery birds for our egg supply where the pullets
are brown and the males are yellow at hatching this is the sort of thing
that happens. Be born yellow, get minced alive.
It should be illegal, but isn't.
It's disgusting and is why I keep my own pure breeds for eggs and keep the
males too.
I won't support an industry that minces male chicks alive. In case anyone
thinks it doesn't happen, it does.
What sort of job would that be? Keep the brown ones and throw the yellow
ones alive into the mincer. I'd rather be unemployed. I could not do it if
you paid me a very lot of money to do it.
No matter how one gets rid of the unwanted birds or other animals it's[/quote:eb53733c1f]
not nice. The important thing is to do it as quickly as possible.
Before getting horrified about the aesthetics of chicken-mincing - and
heaven knows it's a disgusting thing even to think about - I'd want to
know (a) how much suffering is involved, for how long and (b) is there a
less cruel way of doing the same thing that can be accomplished when
there are large numbers to deal with. Presumably anaesthetic injections
followed by a fatal dose, as is done by the vet when putting down a pet
cat or dog, is not realistic, and I wonder if it would be less stressful
for the birds anyway. A bullet to the head, often a less stressful way
of killing a cat or dog since they can be killed at home without the
stress of travelling or the presence of a stranger, would be a nonsense.
So before we get all agitated about the fate of male chicks, what
alternative would people advocate?
A L P
A L P |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:30 pm |
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Guest
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Christina Websell wrote:
[quote:6f409f8ba7]The others who are minced should be stunned first. Made unconscious
so they don't experience even one second of the mincer.
[/quote:6f409f8ba7]
Taking this statement alone, without judgement on any of the rest --- how do
you effectively stun several thousand chicks in a short space of time.?
Commercial hatcheries are dealing with thousands of birds in a hatch.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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| Christina Websell... |
| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:11 pm |
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Guest
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" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i1s5oF2v4s31U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:02676585d9]Christina Websell wrote:
The others who are minced should be stunned first. Made unconscious
so they don't experience even one second of the mincer.
Taking this statement alone, without judgement on any of the rest --- how
do you effectively stun several thousand chicks in a short space of time.?
Commercial hatcheries are dealing with thousands of birds in a hatch.
I know that and it's not an excuse.[/quote:02676585d9]
How difficult would it be to provide an electrical outlet for stunning next
to each station where they are being thrown into the mincer?
Not very difficult at all.
Tina |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:41 pm |
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Guest
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Christina Websell wrote:
[quote:b6aee02891]" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i1s5oF2v4s31U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Christina Websell wrote:
The others who are minced should be stunned first. Made unconscious
so they don't experience even one second of the mincer.
Taking this statement alone, without judgement on any of the rest
--- how do you effectively stun several thousand chicks in a short
space of time.? Commercial hatcheries are dealing with thousands of
birds in a hatch.
I know that and it's not an excuse.
How difficult would it be to provide an electrical outlet for
stunning next to each station where they are being thrown into the
mincer? Not very difficult at all.
[/quote:b6aee02891]
That is effective and safe for all the operators, and guarenteed
unconciousness ?
I dunno, but I suspect its more complicated than you think.
the articles in the Humane Slaughter Association give some of the background
and recommendations for UK hatcheries.
http://www.hsa.org.uk/Information/Slaughter/Poultry%20slaughter.htm
http://www.hsa.org.uk/Resources/Publications/Technical%20Notes/imd.pdf
http://www.hsa.org.uk/Resources/Publications/Technical%20Notes/TN14.pdf
--
regards
Jill Bowis
www.kintaline.co.uk - where we are, what we do: Kintaline Plant and Poultry
Centre
www.lorn.org.uk Local Origins Rural Network - Local Producers Market &
Business/Community Network
www.benderloch.org.uk/forum - Ardchattan Past and Present |
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| Christina Websell... |
| Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:40 pm |
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Guest
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" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i5kb4F2v80rsU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:c92c360832]Christina Websell wrote:
" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i1s5oF2v4s31U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Christina Websell wrote:
The others who are minced should be stunned first. Made unconscious
so they don't experience even one second of the mincer.
Taking this statement alone, without judgement on any of the rest
--- how do you effectively stun several thousand chicks in a short
space of time.? Commercial hatcheries are dealing with thousands of
birds in a hatch.
I know that and it's not an excuse.
How difficult would it be to provide an electrical outlet for
stunning next to each station where they are being thrown into the
mincer? Not very difficult at all.
That is effective and safe for all the operators, and guarenteed
unconciousness ?
[/quote:c92c360832]
Yes, why not?
It could be done.
Tina |
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| 0tterbot... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:20 am |
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Guest
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"Christina Websell" <spamfree at (no spam) tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i7g1vF2vjc2oU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
..
[quote:bcbfb77241]I know that and it's not an excuse.
How difficult would it be to provide an electrical outlet for
stunning next to each station where they are being thrown into the
mincer? Not very difficult at all.
That is effective and safe for all the operators, and guarenteed
unconciousness ?
Yes, why not?
[/quote:bcbfb77241]
because by the time someone has stunned them (with electricity! i.e. given
them an electric shock) you could have put them in the mincer & been done
with it. being small, a shock would be likely to kill them until adjusted
downwards using experiments (on other chicks) to check what voltage will
stun them without killing. electric shocks hurt. so in order to stun a chick
but not kill it, you'd be hurting them briefly anyway, for no benefit i can
see.
putting chicks in a mincer disgusts US because we are compassionate humans
who can think through the consequences of being minced - but only in
relation to ourselves as your posts amply demonstrate. something like a
chick has no concept of a mincer, and it would be quick because they are
small. arsing about with trying to stun them first is absurd, and it's hard
to see how the chicks would benefit - it would just be a different, fast,
lethal thing happening to them - a shock rather than a mincer.
what you are suggesting wouldn't benefit any chicks at all - you're just
being anthropomorphic & trying to soothe your own feelings, rather than the
chicks' (chicks do not have feelings or opinions concerning mincers - they
do not know what they are & cannot grasp the idea of death anyway, and
cannot anticipate "bad" things, or "good" things for that matter, for
heaven's sake).
the only thing that will help chicken welfare in this case is if (or when)
the masses stop buying cage eggs. THAT would be progress for chick welfare,
but more importantly, hen welfare. going all bleeding-heart about a
chick-mincer misses the point _entirely_ and benefits no-one.
[quote:bcbfb77241]It could be done.
[/quote:bcbfb77241]
but it wouldn't help, so it won't be.
kylie |
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| Jill... |
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:31 am |
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0tterbot wrote:
[quote:b089bdc6b5]
the only thing that will help chicken welfare in this case is if (or
when) the masses stop buying cage eggs. THAT would be progress for
chick welfare, but more importantly, hen welfare. going all
bleeding-heart about a chick-mincer misses the point _entirely_ and
benefits no-one.
[/quote:b089bdc6b5]
and like all these things -- while there are too many human beings and an
ever increasing population wanting ever decreasing costs of living,
intensive production is a fact of life.
Its in the hands of the humans to sort but its not going to happen.
However -- while that is the case what needs to happen is that those
involved maintain the VERY highest standards of welfare, and machinery
maintenance, that it is possible to achieve.
We have bred birds that deal with the basic conditions - low aggression,
high productivity, high feed economy, etc - what our responsibility is, is
to make sure those conditions and everything around thier production is as
good as it possibly can be.
for this discussion its maintaining a perfect machine and not over loading
it - for instance. That way the kill rate is incredibly efficient.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
www.kintaline.co.uk - where we are, what we do: Kintaline Plant and Poultry
Centre
www.lorn.org.uk Local Origins Rural Network - Local Producers Market &
Business/Community Network
www.benderloch.org.uk/forum - Ardchattan Past and Present |
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| Christina Websell... |
| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:43 pm |
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Guest
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" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i5kb4F2v80rsU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:51953337f9]Christina Websell wrote:
" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i1s5oF2v4s31U1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
Christina Websell wrote:
The others who are minced should be stunned first. Made unconscious
so they don't experience even one second of the mincer.
Taking this statement alone, without judgement on any of the rest
--- how do you effectively stun several thousand chicks in a short
space of time.? Commercial hatcheries are dealing with thousands of
birds in a hatch.
I know that and it's not an excuse.
How difficult would it be to provide an electrical outlet for
stunning next to each station where they are being thrown into the
mincer? Not very difficult at all.
That is effective and safe for all the operators, and guarenteed
unconciousness ?
I dunno, but I suspect its more complicated than you think.
[/quote:51953337f9]
Maybe it is, but throwing a chick alive into a mincer without stunning it
first is disgusting to me. It should be illegal.
Imagine it. 1 second of pain, two seconds? That's a long time if you're
experiencing it.
Tina |
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| Christina Websell... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:04 pm |
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Guest
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"0tterbot" <spl at (no spam) t.com> wrote in message
news:HmEvm.43420$ze1.25497 at (no spam) news-server.bigpond.net.au...
[quote:deb279251d]"Christina Websell" <spamfree at (no spam) tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i7g1vF2vjc2oU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
.
I know that and it's not an excuse.
How difficult would it be to provide an electrical outlet for
stunning next to each station where they are being thrown into the
mincer? Not very difficult at all.
That is effective and safe for all the operators, and guarenteed
unconciousness ?
Yes, why not?
because by the time someone has stunned them (with electricity! i.e. given
them an electric shock) you could have put them in the mincer & been done
with it. being small, a shock would be likely to kill them until adjusted
downwards using experiments (on other chicks) to check what voltage will
stun them without killing. electric shocks hurt. so in order to stun a
chick but not kill it, you'd be hurting them briefly anyway, for no
benefit i can see.
putting chicks in a mincer disgusts US because we are compassionate humans
who can think through the consequences of being minced - but only in
relation to ourselves as your posts amply demonstrate. something like a
chick has no concept of a mincer, and it would be quick because they are
small. arsing about with trying to stun them first is absurd, and it's
hard to see how the chicks would benefit - it would just be a different,
fast, lethal thing happening to them - a shock rather than a mincer.
what you are suggesting wouldn't benefit any chicks at all - you're just
being anthropomorphic & trying to soothe your own feelings, rather than
the chicks' (chicks do not have feelings or opinions concerning mincers -
they do not know what they are & cannot grasp the idea of death anyway,
and cannot anticipate "bad" things, or "good" things for that matter, for
heaven's sake).
Don't patronise me, I am aware that chicks have no opinion and concepts of a[/quote:deb279251d]
mincer.
But don't you think that then when they are thrown in alive to be minced
they experience a second of two of pain?
Of course they do. You choose to ignore it.
My preference would still be that they are stunned first and my opinion is
still that throwing chicks alive into a mincing machine should be illegal.
Tina |
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| Christina Websell... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:24 pm |
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Guest
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" Jill" <news at (no spam) NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7i8ilmF2vmj9mU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:9e25acc507]0tterbot wrote:
for this discussion its maintaining a perfect machine and not over loading
it - for instance. That way the kill rate is incredibly efficient.
[/quote:9e25acc507]
How long does it take to mince up a live chick if you "maintain a perfect
machine" then?
2 seconds, 3? If you'd like to know how much pain can be experienced in 2
or 3 seconds, heat a knife in the flame of your gas cooker until it's red
hot and then apply it your skin. You will snatch away in .1 of a second.
Try 2-3 secs.
Jill, if you had a chick mincer in front of you and you had 24 male chicks
you'd just hatched would you throw them in? Be honest.
Tina |
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| 0tterbot... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:45 pm |
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Guest
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"Christina Websell" <spamfree at (no spam) tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7ik9a7F31ksvoU1 at (no spam) mid.individual.net...
[quote:42fbdd27fa]Yes, why not?
because by the time someone has stunned them (with electricity! i.e.
given them an electric shock) you could have put them in the mincer &
been done with it. being small, a shock would be likely to kill them
until adjusted downwards using experiments (on other chicks) to check
what voltage will stun them without killing. electric shocks hurt. so in
order to stun a chick but not kill it, you'd be hurting them briefly
anyway, for no benefit i can see.
putting chicks in a mincer disgusts US because we are compassionate
humans who can think through the consequences of being minced - but only
in relation to ourselves as your posts amply demonstrate. something like
a chick has no concept of a mincer, and it would be quick because they
are small. arsing about with trying to stun them first is absurd, and
it's hard to see how the chicks would benefit - it would just be a
different, fast, lethal thing happening to them - a shock rather than a
mincer.
what you are suggesting wouldn't benefit any chicks at all - you're just
being anthropomorphic & trying to soothe your own feelings, rather than
the chicks' (chicks do not have feelings or opinions concerning mincers -
they do not know what they are & cannot grasp the idea of death anyway,
and cannot anticipate "bad" things, or "good" things for that matter, for
heaven's sake).
Don't patronise me, I am aware that chicks have no opinion and concepts of
a mincer.
But don't you think that then when they are thrown in alive to be minced
they experience a second of two of pain?
[/quote:42fbdd27fa]
most likely. i doubt it would be any worse than the second or two of pain
they would experience if you got your way & they were stunned with
electricity (!) first. (i can only assume you've never had an electric shock
if you actually think this is a viable idea). as well as improving the
situation very little (if at all), throwing an extra processing element into
the mix only causes excess energy use for no gain at all.
[quote:42fbdd27fa]Of course they do. You choose to ignore it.
[/quote:42fbdd27fa]
that's because on the scale of animal-care issues, it simply doesn't rate.
keeping meat or egg birds (or any other animal, for that matter) in
appalling conditions, however, does rate, seeing as how they experience a
great deal more misery than a few seconds of pain. a few seconds of pain
doesn't bother me ethically, whether the pain is my own or someone or
something else's. a lifetime, albeit short, in misery, bothers me a great
deal.
[quote:42fbdd27fa]My preference would still be that they are stunned first and my opinion is
still that throwing chicks alive into a mincing machine should be illegal.
[/quote:42fbdd27fa]
my opinion is that keeping poultry caged for egg or meat production should
be illegal. if we want eggs & meat, which i for one certainly do, there is
always going to be a problem of what to do with excess males & the reality
is that they've always been killed at some stage (as they are at my place &
at the homes of most people i know who keep chickens). that is just a fact
of life & i don't have a problem with that. if we want eggs & meat
_cheaply_, we can grow our own. otherwise we should be prepared to pay the
real cost of farming them, as people used to prior to the use of batteries &
prior to the use of breeding to create poultry "suitable" for batteries. i'm
absolutely happy for all those excess males to be ranged until they're 10
weeks or so & then killed for meat. when they get killed for meat, they will
inevitably experience a few seconds of pain. that's life.
what you propose facilitates the system existing as it is, which i find
staggering in the context, quite frankly.
kylie |
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