 |
|
| Science Forum Index » Physics Forum » death ray... |
|
Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next |
|
| Author |
Message |
| RichD... |
 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:14 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
--
Rich |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Anim8rFSK... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:45 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
In article
<2b2e93bf-4849-49fd-b9cf-3f8952e37887 at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
RichD <r_delaney2001 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:fe32e6942e]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
[/quote:fe32e6942e]
Sure.
Oh, you mean one that works? No.
[quote:fe32e6942e]
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
[/quote:fe32e6942e]
You could probably put somebody's eye out.
--
Uncle Jack: "Will, you're invisible!"
Will: "Invisible? I can't be! I can touch myself!"
--actual dialog from third season LAND OF THE LOST |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| William R. Cousert... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:54 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8Rfsk at (no spam) cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-38D40E.10451331082009 at (no spam) news.dc1.easynews.com...
[quote:445284a379]In article
2b2e93bf-4849-49fd-b9cf-3f8952e37887 at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>,
RichD <r_delaney2001 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
Sure.
Oh, you mean one that works? No.
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
You could probably put somebody's eye out.
[/quote:445284a379]
You don't need a death ray for that. Red Ryder BB guns have been doing that
for generations..... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Androcles... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:14 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"RichD" <r_delaney2001 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2b2e93bf-4849-49fd-b9cf-3f8952e37887 at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
[quote:ca7ca65055]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
--
Rich
[/quote:ca7ca65055]
There is certainly a lot of energy in a shotgun shell or even
a book of matches or a single match, all of which produce
light. What you need is a way to harness that into a laser.
Do that and even a single shot from a match's worth of
energy would be calibrated to "burn", which you'd get
from a match in the ordinary way.
Defocusing the beam would bring it down to sting and tickle.
Even a magnifying glass can focus the sun's rays to damage
the skin.
Given that hydrogen fuel cells are now used to power electric
cars, conversion of chemical energy to light isn't totally
out-of-sight sci-fi.
With hydrogen fuel to produce electricity and electricity
to power a laser (as we already do with laser diodes), the
Flash Gordon hand-held raygun is a definite possibility. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| tadchem... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:20 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Aug 31, 1:14 pm, RichD <r_delaney2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:d458092f4a]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
--
Rich
[/quote:d458092f4a]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHaSR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| BGB / cr88192... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:31 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"RichD" <r_delaney2001 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2b2e93bf-4849-49fd-b9cf-3f8952e37887 at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
[quote:01abe72a7e]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
[/quote:01abe72a7e]
a laser shoots out focused light, which at most could be used for cutting
things and/or blowing holes in things...
however, these other weapons typically killed people while producing very
little physical damage (a burn, or a dark spot on someones' clothes...).
and, as for stun:
a laser will not "stun" someone (as in ST), and if made weaker, it could
burn, but this would be more of an "oh holy crap it burns" experience,
rather than knocking them unconscious with little other damage...
so, maybe better for this effect would be a non-laser technology.
one possibility:
highly charged ions.
these would glow, and could be directed forwards with a magnetic field;
they could also "stun" in the sense of having an electric charge, but would
probably burn a lot more than they zap.
or, another technology, actually involving lasers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolaser
[quote:01abe72a7e]--
Rich[/quote:01abe72a7e] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Uncle Al... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:07 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
RichD wrote:
[quote:a13727632e]
Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
[/quote:a13727632e]
Star Trek toys, light sabers... quick set epoxy super soakers. That
last one could change the world re urban warfare and flame throwers.
Humane, effective, persistent. Nice for prison work.
[quote:a13727632e]We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
[/quote:a13727632e]
It is no great extension for a laser rangefinder to pop eyes or a
microwave phased array antenna to fry a soldier. Energy is energy.
Somewhere nearby there must be an 18-wheeler or jet engine powering
the generator.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Uncle Al... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:10 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Androcles wrote:
[quote:919fe7de3f]
"RichD" <r_delaney2001 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2b2e93bf-4849-49fd-b9cf-3f8952e37887 at (no spam) u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
--
Rich
There is certainly a lot of energy in a shotgun shell or even
a book of matches or a single match, all of which produce
light. What you need is a way to harness that into
[snip crap][/quote:919fe7de3f]
A hamburger is substantially more energetic /_\H(combustion) than
TNT. So? Do you see Homeland Severity confiscating Carl's Six Dollar
Burgers? Tubs of Crisco?
idiot
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Yousuf Khan... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:50 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
RichD wrote:
[quote:9f1b811dc7]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
[/quote:9f1b811dc7]
I suspect that if you wish to vaporize something completely in less than
a second, you'll need at least an X-ray or a Gamma ray laser. An optical
laser wouldn't be powerful enough. An UV laser might kill by giving you
cancer, but it won't vaporize you completely.
As for getting a laser into something small and light enough to hold in
the hand, you'll need a small light power source. I think the best bet
for such a power source is the nuclear isomer battery. It's just
slightly behind nuclear fusion or fission in terms of power density per
kilogram, but much safer to hold in your hands. :-)
The nuclear isomer battery works by finding a stable, non-ground-state
for an element (such as hafnium). The hafnium stays extremely stable at
this state until it is irradiated with an x-ray. The x-ray then triggers
the hafnium to drop down to its ground-state and in the process it
releases a gamma ray. So you put an x-ray in, but get a gamma ray out,
so you're getting more energy back. You could even possibly use the
released gamma rays to make your gamma-ray laser directly, if you can
find a material that can act as a gamma ray mirror to bounce the gamma
rays around until they become coherent.
Yousuf Khan |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Benj... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:09 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Aug 31, 1:14 pm, RichD <r_delaney2... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:7cebf134af]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
[/quote:7cebf134af]
Hey Rich, why are you acting so dumb? This is a physics group so do
some physics!
Look at it this way: How much energy would it take to do the things
you suggest at a reasonable distance?
It should be obvious that "tickle" is pretty easy. One of those kid's
"vortex ring guns" can do that! No energy source at all but hand or
spring power! "stun" or "harm" takes more. On the net a guy built a
vortex "cannon" that used a liquid/vapor fuel like a potato gun (which
also can "stun"). He used it on "houses" made of straw, sticks, and
bricks just like the three little pigs. Yeah, it blew the first two
down! If you want more harm, them maybe a chemical laser could get
enough energy in a portable "gun" [probably rifle sized] to blind
people. However we now step into the "fiction" side.
Do this quick calculation and answer your own question.
1. What is the volume of the average human body?
2. assume for the purposes of this study that bodies are made up 100%
of water.
3. Calculate how much energy it takes to vaporize (boil) that much
water.
4. About now you should be seeing that even with chemical energy
(which is pretty concentrated) it's going to take a LOT of fuel to
vaporize a person at a distance, even if the energy is transmitted
with no losses, with some small hand-held "phazer" and that fuel
doesn't have a chance of fitting in the weapon unless cold fusion or
"free energy" can actually be made to work.
Now that little bit of thinking wasn't so painful, was it? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Salmon Egg... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:33 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
In article <4A9C3C32.33912472 at (no spam) hate.spam.net>,
Uncle Al <UncleAl0 at (no spam) hate.spam.net> wrote:
[quote:2b5d18d121]There is certainly a lot of energy in a shotgun shell or even
a book of matches or a single match, all of which produce
light. What you need is a way to harness that into
[snip crap]
A hamburger is substantially more energetic /_\H(combustion) than
TNT. So? Do you see Homeland Severity confiscating Carl's Six Dollar
Burgers? Tubs of Crisco?
[/quote:2b5d18d121]
How about potato chips? They burn nicely and have been killing people
for years. Great for arsonists. I have not tried smuggling them onto
airliners, but I think I could.
Bill
--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Uncle Al... |
| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:34 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Salmon Egg wrote:
[quote:af59d873bc]
In article <4A9C3C32.33912472 at (no spam) hate.spam.net>,
Uncle Al <UncleAl0 at (no spam) hate.spam.net> wrote:
There is certainly a lot of energy in a shotgun shell or even
a book of matches or a single match, all of which produce
light. What you need is a way to harness that into
[snip crap]
A hamburger is substantially more energetic /_\H(combustion) than
TNT. So? Do you see Homeland Severity confiscating Carl's Six Dollar
Burgers? Tubs of Crisco?
How about potato chips? They burn nicely and have been killing people
for years. Great for arsonists. I have not tried smuggling them onto
airliners, but I think I could.
[/quote:af59d873bc]
The finest case of arson of which I know involve dousing the target
with... liquid oxygen. Let the cops detect something amiss afterwar!
OTOH, don't get hammered and talk about it.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2 |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| alien8er... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:38 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Sep 1, 7:05 am, Don Stauffer <stauf... at (no spam) usfamily.net> wrote:
[quote:a12874b489]RichD wrote:
Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
--
Rich
Not currently. I have worked on death rays (both lasers and particle
beams, including pulsed laser to make ionized path for particle beams).
So far the power supplies are enormous. We need higher density
electrical storage, or more efficient conversion of chemical to
electrical energy.
Almost feasible are chemical lasers. But the existing ones have too
much ancillary equipment, and use very toxic chemicals which require a
lot of safety gear to use.
[/quote:a12874b489]
Hydrogen fluoride lasers (that 'burn' hydrogen and fluorine in a
resonator that enhances the IR generated) come to mind. But as you say
the chemical exhaust is, to put it mildly, hellishly toxic.
Can no-one figure out how to make a "hydrogen oxide" laser? Naively
all it should involve is an oxyhydrogen torch in a suitable resonator.
The exhaust would be (when cooled) perfectly safe water vapor.
Mark L. Fergerson |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Don Stauffer... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:05 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
RichD wrote:
[quote:01e04d854d]Is it possible to construct a hand held weapon
like those Star Trek toys?
We know that lasers can cut flesh, as surgical tools,
could you get enough intensity for something killer?
(with calibrations; tickle, stun, fibrillate, vaporize)
--
Rich
[/quote:01e04d854d]
Not currently. I have worked on death rays (both lasers and particle
beams, including pulsed laser to make ionized path for particle beams).
So far the power supplies are enormous. We need higher density
electrical storage, or more efficient conversion of chemical to
electrical energy.
Almost feasible are chemical lasers. But the existing ones have too
much ancillary equipment, and use very toxic chemicals which require a
lot of safety gear to use.
There is an economy of scale here. The bigger you make them, the
smaller a percentage of total weight this ancillary equipment is.
Actually, there is probably more work going on on non-lethal weapons.
Guns work fine for killing people- military and police would like
weapons that incapacitate people with little risk of killing them. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| PV... |
| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:17 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Yousuf Khan <bbbl67 at (no spam) yahoo.com> writes:
[quote:89848a4881]the hand, you'll need a small light power source. I think the best bet
for such a power source is the nuclear isomer battery. It's just
slightly behind nuclear fusion or fission in terms of power density per
kilogram, but much safer to hold in your hands. 
[/quote:89848a4881]
Debunked years ago. It's a story the CIA invented to freak out the
russians, and never really existed. CF also, "suitcase nuke". *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:05 am
|
|