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| Trond Engen... |
 Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:01 pm |
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Trond Engen:
[quote:e1a473ebc6]OK. An attempt: [...]
[/quote:e1a473ebc6]
Oh, I forgot. In one of our local boring talent show rip-offs this year
one contestant sang backwards: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-txqes0SEGI>
It's the show's official YouTube clip, so there's a lot of boring stuff
included. The interesting parts are from 1:00 to 2:15 and from 2:55 to 4:00.
--
Trond Engen |
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| Trond Engen... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:03 pm |
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António Marques:
[quote:73f26c67c1]On 25 Jul, 20:31, Trond Engen <trond... at (no spam) engen.priv.no> wrote:
António Marques:
I expected you'd be the one to explain to us the repetitive
whooshing that immediately betrays this or any other reversed
waveform that I've heard. Can it really be that you didn't notice
it? NB it has nothing to do with speech itself - such as you
describe above - it's present in any kind of sound that you play
backwards. And it's not an artifact of reversal either, because if
you re-reverse the wave, the whooshing is gone. PLEASE someone
explain it. You were all so clever discussing sound waves just some
years ago...
OK. An attempt: When speaking we typically release most air early in
the word (and/or compound, and/or sentence). I _think_ that what you
call whooshing is
Let's just get this clear, you do hear it too? You are familiar with
what I'm referring to? (From your answer, I assume yes to both.)
[/quote:73f26c67c1]
Yes, I do. Providing that we mean the same thing, of course.
[quote:73f26c67c1]the sound of the reduction in airstream played backwards. I can't
speak for any sound, but many natural sources of sound (or, indeed,
energy) will have a similar pattern of release.
Would it be the case that we're just neurologically trained to filter
out the normal release pattern - and that having it played backwards,
not only do we not filter it out, we simultaneously get a distorted
perception of the rest because we're trying to filter out something
that isn't there? (The reverse playback also having its own forward
release pattern, however not in the same places it originally should
be.)
[/quote:73f26c67c1]
Might be. I usually restrain myself to what I do best -- idle
speculation. One should be able to speculate less idly, though. Surely
some university has soundclips of speech on the web with prepared graphs
of acoustic release. Playing them backwards and marking the points it
might be possible to discern e.g. a percieved background curve that
resembles "wooshing".
[quote:73f26c67c1](In the book I read now, Botha, Rudolf and Chris Knight (Ed.): _The
Prehistory of Language_ Oxford UP 2009, Eric Reuland (at least I
think it was him, I can't find the passage without effort)
tentatively attributes the (near-)universal trait of fronting for
emphasis, and secondary for questioning, to this.)
(Here I must admit I don't see the connection.)
[/quote:73f26c67c1]
Fronted elements get more air, making them both louder and clearer.
--
Trond Engen |
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| benlizro at (no spam) ihug.co.nz... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:08 pm |
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On Jul 26, 10:51 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:1ef87576c9]On Jul 24, 4:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
He looked like a Parsee Zanzibarian. Why would you call him an Indian?
A Znzibarian Parsee looks different from Indian Parsee?
No idea.
That was not the point.
The point was to wonder why ranjit would expect him to look like an
Indian, since he wasn't one.
His parents were Indians. His surname Bulsara makes his origin Bulsar
(Valsad) in Gujarat.http://www.google.com/search?q=bulsar+gujarat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
[/quote:1ef87576c9]
And he was schooled in India from age 8 to 17. |
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| Romanise... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:11 pm |
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On Jul 24, 9:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
[quote:52bd072d0c]On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
He looked like a Parsee Zanzibarian. Why would you call him an Indian?
A Znzibarian Parsee looks different from Indian Parsee?
No idea.
That was not the point.
The point was to wonder why ranjit would expect him to look like an
Indian, since he wasn't one.
[/quote:52bd072d0c]
Not many Parsees in South India I suppose. |
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| LEE Sau Dan... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:53 pm |
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[quote:998b070671]"Bart" == Bart Mathias <mathias at (no spam) hawaii.edu> writes:
[/quote:998b070671]
Helmut> I do not rule out the possibility that one can speak like
Helmut> this but it does much more sound like speech backwards.
Bart> Y. R. Chao was expert at this. After attending a one-hour
Bart> performance of his in Berkeley about 1960 I took advantage of
Bart> owning a wire recorder (it doesn't know whether the wire is
Bart> going frontwards or backwards) to play at it for a few days.
Bart> I could make Japanese sound quite natural (to me; I'm sure
Bart> even my frontward Japanese doesn't sound natural to a
Bart> Japanese),
Japanese is relatively easy because most syllable are open, with pure
vowel. And there are no difficult consonant clusters. The the
"kya"-like sounds and short syllables are tricky.
Bart> but my English intonation was always a bit sing-song.
I have no problems with control the pitch level. I can even sing a
song! :)
Bart> I was also surprised to discover that my English /i/,
Bart> supposedly [I], is a "diphthong." "Tim" backwards came out
Bart> like an Australian "might?" (something like [mVIht], rising
Bart> tone).
Instead of "mid"?
The first sounds that I found difficult were the aspirated sounds. This
is when I realized that [t'] is really [t] followed by [h]. So, to
pronounce it backwards, I have to learn to pronounce [h] before an
unaspirated [t]. Those are very good phonetic exercises, though. :)
Also, when trying to do "n-" and "m-" syllables, the playback turn out
to have very strong initial "n-"s and "m-"s. By strong, I mean it's too
long (in time) and the nasalization is too heavy. This shows that
e.g. the two [m]s in "mum" have slightly different qualities. The final
[m] is louder, more nasalized and has a longer duration. These
differences become notable by playing it backwards, so that instead of
interpreting the sounds as speech sounds and words (left-brain
intervening), we hear the raw sounds as unintelligible sounds (a mainly
right-brain activity).
--
Lee Sau Dan §õ¦u´° ~{ at (no spam) nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee at (no spam) informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee |
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| ranjit_mathews at (no spam) yahoo.com... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:26 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 2:11 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:8ee2f64df0]On Jul 24, 9:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
He looked like a Parsee Zanzibarian. Why would you call him an Indian?
A Znzibarian Parsee looks different from Indian Parsee?
No idea.
That was not the point.
The point was to wonder why ranjit would expect him to look like an
Indian, since he wasn't one.
Not many Parsees in South India I suppose.
[/quote:8ee2f64df0]
I knew a few Parsis in Chennai. Names I can remember are females:
Shanas, Zimmeron, males: Cyrus, Xerxes. |
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| Romanise... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:02 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 11:26 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:37de6c9248]On Jul 26, 2:11 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
He looked like a Parsee Zanzibarian. Why would you call him an Indian?
A Znzibarian Parsee looks different from Indian Parsee?
No idea.
That was not the point.
The point was to wonder why ranjit would expect him to look like an
Indian, since he wasn't one.
Not many Parsees in South India I suppose.
I knew a few Parsis in Chennai. Names I can remember are females:
Shanas, Zimmeron, males: Cyrus, Xerxes.
[/quote:37de6c9248]
This guy mercury had typical Parsee face, of course one has to have
encountered them regularly as some one living in Surat, Mumbai or Pune. |
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| ranjit_mathews at (no spam) yahoo.com... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:10 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 25, 6:51 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:01e1d8ddb8]On Jul 24, 4:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
His parents were Indians. His surname Bulsara makes his origin Bulsar
(Valsad) in Gujarat.
http://www.google.com/search?q=bulsar+gujarat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
[/quote:01e1d8ddb8]
Judging from the case of Baroda (Marathi pronunciation [bV*.o:d[A]),
Bulsar must be a British respelling of the Marathi name of the place
which name must have been [bVls at (no spam) *.] where [*.] is a retroflex flap. In
the case of Baroda, it had a Maratha king. Why would Valsad have a
Marathi name - did it too have a Maratha king? |
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| dmjoshi1 at (no spam) gmail.com... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 1:10 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:e8a9aa2526]On Jul 25, 6:51 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 4:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
His parents were Indians. His surname Bulsara makes his origin Bulsar
(Valsad) in Gujarat.
http://www.google.com/search?q=bulsar+gujarat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
Judging from the case of Baroda (Marathi pronunciation [bV*.o:d[A]),
Bulsar must be a British respelling of the Marathi name of the place
which name must have been [bVls at (no spam) *.] where [*.] is a retroflex flap. In
the case of Baroda, it had a Maratha king. Why would Valsad have a
Marathi name - did it too have a Maratha king?
[/quote:e8a9aa2526]
vaDodaraa, valsaaD
What is marathi in it.
Many Parsee names are on place names, with suffuxes -ia (Bilimor-a) -na
(Vesu). -wala suffix they share with hindus and muslims. |
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| Romanise... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:01 am |
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Guest
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Matthew Amroliwala
Have long suspected him to be a Parsee.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Amroliwala
Had to be sure because of -wala in his surname.
Amroli is shown as almost part of Surat. I thought it was bit far to
the south on rail line. |
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| Peter T. Daniels... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:45 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 25, 11:08 pm, "benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz" <benli... at (no spam) ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
[quote:b1b92dda37]On Jul 26, 10:51 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 4:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
He looked like a Parsee Zanzibarian. Why would you call him an Indian?
A Znzibarian Parsee looks different from Indian Parsee?
No idea.
That was not the point.
The point was to wonder why ranjit would expect him to look like an
Indian, since he wasn't one.
His parents were Indians. His surname Bulsara makes his origin Bulsar
(Valsad) in Gujarat.http://www.google.com/search?q=bulsar+gujarat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
And he was schooled in India from age 8 to 17.-
[/quote:b1b92dda37]
Yeah, that would _really_ make him look like an Indian! |
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| ranjit_mathews at (no spam) yahoo.com... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:34 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 8:47 am, "dmjos... at (no spam) gmail.com" <dmjos... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:337fd03da5]On Jul 26, 1:10 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com" <ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 25, 6:51 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 4:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
His parents were Indians. His surname Bulsara makes his origin Bulsar
(Valsad) in Gujarat.
http://www.google.com/search?q=bulsar+gujarat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
Judging from the case of Baroda (Marathi pronunciation [bV*.o:d[A]),
Bulsar must be a British respelling of the Marathi name of the place
which name must have been [bVls at (no spam) *.] where [*.] is a retroflex flap. In
the case of Baroda, it had a Maratha king. Why would Valsad have a
Marathi name - did it too have a Maratha king?
vaDodaraa, valsaaD
What is marathi in it.
[/quote:337fd03da5]
vaDodaraa is mostly spelt as Baroda (Bank of Baroda, not Bank of
Vadodara) in English because it is spelt <baD.odA> in Marathi.
[quote:337fd03da5]Many Parsee names are on place names, with suffuxes -ia (Bilimor-a) -na
(Vesu). -wala suffix they share with hindus and muslims.[/quote:337fd03da5] |
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| Romanise... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:09 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 3:34 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
<ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:bd82d16210]On Jul 26, 8:47 am, "dmjos... at (no spam) gmail.com" <dmjos... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 26, 1:10 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com" <ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 25, 6:51 pm, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 4:02 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 10:54 am, Romanise <josh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:17 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 5:12 am, "ranjit_math... at (no spam) yahoo.com"
Did Freddie Mercury look like an Indian?http://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
His parents were Indians. His surname Bulsara makes his origin Bulsar
(Valsad) in Gujarat.
http://www.google.com/search?q=bulsar+gujarat&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
Judging from the case of Baroda (Marathi pronunciation [bV*.o:d[A]),
Bulsar must be a British respelling of the Marathi name of the place
which name must have been [bVls at (no spam) *.] where [*.] is a retroflex flap. In
the case of Baroda, it had a Maratha king. Why would Valsad have a
Marathi name - did it too have a Maratha king?
vaDodaraa, valsaaD
What is marathi in it.
vaDodaraa is mostly spelt as Baroda (Bank of Baroda, not Bank of
Vadodara) in English because it is spelt <baD.odA> in Marathi.
[/quote:bd82d16210]
Dont know about Marathi, but Hindi called it baDaudaa. Doubt if
Gaekwads themselves called it baDaudaa.
[quote:bd82d16210]
Many Parsee names are on place names, with suffuxes -ia (Bilimor-a) -na
(Vesu). -wala suffix they share with hindus and muslims.[/quote:bd82d16210] |
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| Romanise... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:16 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 3:06 pm, ModerateMallu <KalluMallu... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:03d55a8f7e]Romanise wrote:
Matthew Amroliwala
Have long suspected him to be a Parsee.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Amroliwala
Had to be sure because of -wala in his surname.
Amroli is shown as almost part of Surat. I thought it was bit far to
the south on rail line.
The -wala suffix could be either Parsee (Zoroastrian) or Bohri (Shia
Muslim). Interestingly, Zoroastrians have Persian roots, while Bohris
have Arab roots. Although their origins are different they have good bit
of similarity in the way they speak Gujarati, and their cuisine too, no?
[/quote:03d55a8f7e]
In Surat -wala is common among baniya ( though some baniyas and kolis
call them ghaanchii, teli (gangu). They even say that they are
products of their women servicing sailors from Europe when Surat was
the major port for North India.
You will find at least 100 surnames with -wala in them. |
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| Romanise... |
| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:10 am |
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Guest
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On Jul 26, 4:20 pm, ModerateMallu <KalluMallu... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
[quote:f54b5a31e7]Romanise wrote:
Dont know about Marathi, but Hindi called it baDaudaa. Doubt if
Gaekwads themselves called it baDaudaa.
Here is a link that might help
http://www.mapsofindia.com/vadodra/history/origin.html
[/quote:f54b5a31e7]
Knew vaTa+udara. Did know other stuff. Thanks. |
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