On Jul 26, 9:01 am, "Anne V." <ahvasq... at (no spam) NOSPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote:

When I mention damaging the Constitution and Bill of Rights, what's in my
head is the Patriot Act. I can't believe that we just willingly handed our
rights over to the government. The founding fathers of this country must be
spinning in their graves.


As I've argued many times before, the greatest danger to our liberty
is not that enemy forces will conquer the country and take away our
Constitution and Bill of Rights. Rather, we'll give them away -- one
word, one phrase, one sentence and one paragraph at a time, all in the
hopes of achieving national security. And we'll loudly applaud
ourselves for having done so.

Eliyahu
(Just stopping by to say hello...)

As I've argued many times before, the greatest danger to our liberty
is not that enemy forces will conquer the country and take away our
Constitution and Bill of Rights. Rather, we'll give them away -- one
word, one phrase, one sentence and one paragraph at a time, all in the
hopes of achieving national security. And we'll loudly applaud
ourselves for having done so.

Eliyahu
(Just stopping by to say hello...)

Yes, indeed, and I think that's what we're doing with the Patriot Act. "Oh,
please, take my freedoms so I'll feel safe!" Hogwash.

Hey, Eliyahu, where've you been? How's everything going? It's good to
"see" you again!

Anne

"Eliyahu" <lrooff at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06aa8d88-b03e-4d83-9c70-19089dad255f at (no spam) r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

As I've argued many times before, the greatest danger to our liberty
is not that enemy forces will conquer the country and take away our
Constitution and Bill of Rights. Rather, we'll give them away -- one
word, one phrase, one sentence and one paragraph at a time, all in the
hopes of achieving national security. And we'll loudly applaud
ourselves for having done so.

Eliyahu
(Just stopping by to say hello...)

On Jul 26, 9:01 am, "Anne V." <ahvasq... at (no spam) NOSPAMsbcglobal.net> wrote:
When I mention damaging the Constitution and Bill of Rights, what's in my
head is the Patriot Act. I can't believe that we just willingly handed
our
rights over to the government. The founding fathers of this country must
be
spinning in their graves.

As I've argued many times before, the greatest danger to our liberty
is not that enemy forces will conquer the country and take away our
Constitution and Bill of Rights. Rather, we'll give them away -- one
word, one phrase, one sentence and one paragraph at a time, all in the
hopes of achieving national security. And we'll loudly applaud
ourselves for having done so.

Eliyahu
(Just stopping by to say hello...)

Don't you think
the very freedoms you cherish allowed these terrorists to accomplish
exactly what they did? What's happening today could never have been
foreseen when the constitution was written.

Marsha/Ohio



It was our policies toward the Mideast that contributed to the
terrorist attacks, our backing of oil companies and corrupt governments
that have their foot on the neck of their own people. That's what makes
them hate us so. We have the power to change those policies. Giving
away our own freedoms will not change anything.

Gisele

Gisele wrote:
Don't you think
the very freedoms you cherish allowed these terrorists to accomplish
exactly what they did? What's happening today could never have been
foreseen when the constitution was written.

Marsha/Ohio



It was our policies toward the Mideast that contributed to the
terrorist attacks, our backing of oil companies and corrupt governments
that have their foot on the neck of their own people. That's what makes
them hate us so. We have the power to change those policies. Giving
away our own freedoms will not change anything.

Gisele



I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Are you saying what happened
on 9/11 was our government's fault? I could understand that point of view
if it wasn't selective. For instance, how can someone be against the war
in Iraq, but blame something they think our government did for terrorist
attacks that killed all those innocent people?

Marsha/Ohio

Don't you think
the very freedoms you cherish allowed these terrorists to accomplish
exactly what they did? What's happening today could never have been
foreseen when the constitution was written.

Marsha/Ohio


It was our policies toward the Mideast that contributed to the
terrorist attacks, our backing of oil companies and corrupt governments
that have their foot on the neck of their own people. That's what makes
them hate us so. We have the power to change those policies. Giving
away our own freedoms will not change anything.

Gisele


--
Gisele
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View this thread: http://www.scribera.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6898

"Marsha" <mas at (no spam) xeb.net> wrote in message
news:g72fki$olh$1 at (no spam) news.datemas.de...
Gisele wrote:
Don't you think
the very freedoms you cherish allowed these terrorists to accomplish
exactly what they did? What's happening today could never have been
foreseen when the constitution was written.

Marsha/Ohio



It was our policies toward the Mideast that contributed to the
terrorist attacks, our backing of oil companies and corrupt governments
that have their foot on the neck of their own people. That's what makes
them hate us so. We have the power to change those policies. Giving
away our own freedoms will not change anything.

Gisele



I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Are you saying what
happened on 9/11 was our government's fault? I could understand that
point of view if it wasn't selective. For instance, how can someone be
against the war in Iraq, but blame something they think our government
did for terrorist attacks that killed all those innocent people?

Marsha/Ohio


American self-loathing and blaming is currently very popular, ignoring
that Islam teaches that anyone not of their faith is the enemy and their
political/social/religious agenda is to terrorize and kill anyone that
will not convert to their faith.

It's also very difficult to trust them in any peace talks, mediations,
etc., because their faith also teaches that lying to your enemies is
completely acceptable.

Don't believe me? Read the Koran.

ed

On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:51:52 -0700, "Susan Mitchell"
medlawtrans at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:

Hey, good to "see" you -- and I so agree!

I love our liberties and respect the premises on which our freedomes
are based, but without added security measures, I feel we are
vulnerable to the many people who hate us for what we *do* have. Since
so many countries now have the ability to attack us significantly
(9-11), I have to wonder what recourse we have if we don't enforce
these security measures. If we're attacked, do we just sit back and
not retaliate? Could it be that the trade-off for the added security
is avoidance of all-out war? Of economic ruin? Of a more absolute loss
of freedom?

I don't know, mind you--but no matter how much you abhor the Patriot
Act and its consequences, I think you have to consider the potential
danger of worse circumstances if we don't keep a tight rein on
security.

Do you think the United Nations is going to protect us? What
governing body of world scope can stop terrorism? What's your thinking
here?

Anne/OH

Ed, no different than Christianity. Better believe what we do or you burn in
hell and we will preach you to death, hound you to death. And yes Christians
have killed, far more over years than Islam. Go back through history,
Christians don't look any better.

American self-loathing and blaming is currently very popular, ignoring that
Islam teaches that anyone not of their faith is the enemy and their
political/social/religious agenda is to terrorize and kill anyone that will
not convert to their faith.

It's also very difficult to trust them in any peace talks, mediations, etc.,
because their faith also teaches that lying to your enemies is completely
acceptable.

Don't believe me? Read the Koran.

ed

If this government was truly worried, why were they considering selling off
the security of our ports to Dubai an Arab country? That in and of itself
tells you that this current regime is sick and drunk with crazy power that
is not in it for our security but in it for their insane reasons. To even
consider selling our security to an Arab nation is the mark of true insanity
if you truly believe the terrorists are out to get us. Imagine how easy that
would have been to infiltrate.

That's a rather racist viewpoint, and so wrong, that it's not funny.
Nothing was being "sold off."

From WSJ:

"The notion that the Bush Administration is farming out port "security" to
hostile Arab nations is alarmist nonsense. Dubai Ports World would be
managing the commercial activities of these U.S. ports, not securing them.
There's a difference. Port security falls to Coast Guard and U.S. Customs
officials. "Nothing changes with respect to security under the contract,"
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday. "The Coast Guard is in
charge of security, not the corporation."

This is the rest of the article that ran in the Wall Street Journal, for
those who want enlightenment:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007999

Marsha/Ohio

I'm not sure it's any more racist than claiming all Muslims are out to kill
us, though.

Anne

Anne V. wrote:
I'm not sure it's any more racist than claiming all Muslims are out to
kill us, though.

Anne

That's exactly what Susan was doing. My point was that she was being
racist by claiming we shouldn't let Dubai manage the commercial aspect.

Marsha/Ohio