Main Page | Report this Page
 
   
Science Forum Index  »  Electronics - Repair Forum  »  Adding an FM radio to a valve/tube car radio...
Page 1 of 1    
Author Message
N_Cook...
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:26 pm
Guest
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator 12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas before
rejecting the project?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
Adam Kb2jpd...
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:26 pm
Guest
On Jul 10, 1:26 pm, "N_Cook" <dive... at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator 12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas before
rejecting the project?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Most mp3 players derive their radio reception from the headphones.
Isolate and bring out that wireto an external aerial and you will be
good for the strong FM stations. Next, get some filtering caps and put
them across the B+ and grounds of your player. Your audio output
ground will need to be shielded properly. Can you make a Faraday box
inside that radio?

Adam Kb2jpd
hr(bob) hofmann at (no spam) att.net...
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:26 pm
Guest
On Jul 10, 4:14 pm, "N_Cook" <dive... at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
James Sweet <jamesswe... at (no spam) trashmail.net> wrote in message

news:aetdk.1248$bn3.1183 at (no spam) trnddc07...







N_Cook wrote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those
keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM
radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator
12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and
the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try
in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas
before
rejecting the project?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

There's guys who do this regularly, I don't know the details but
hopefully some of them will reply with details. Undertaking this myself,
I would be inclined to replace the vibrator with solid state internals,
not too difficult and you get a lot of added reliability. I'm a little
confused when you say you're operating the FM receiver off the HV power
supply, are you trying to regulate down from the B+ supplied to the
tubes? If you need isolation, how about one of those little DC-DC
converters? I salvaged one from an old eithernet card for a different
automotive project where I needed isolation.

  An option that would avoid modifying the original radio at all is to
use a low power AM transmitter fed by the FM receiver and just stick
that elsewhere.

I've replaced the switches with a 10 turn pot for dial tuning of the FM via
the varicap. The 3V is derived from the 12V which is positive ground which
I'm wondering if that may be part of the problem, grounding the + rail of
the TDA. The audio out buffered through a transistor, I've fed in via a
switch , at the volume control prior to the EL42.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

YOu need to figure out if the Hash is getting conducted or radiated
into the receiver. It should be posible to put the FM unit into an
aluminum foil shielded compartment and then filter the heck out of the
input voltage.

Bob Hofmann
N_Cook...
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:14 pm
Guest
James Sweet <jamessweet1 at (no spam) trashmail.net> wrote in message
news:aetdk.1248$bn3.1183 at (no spam) trnddc07...
Quote:

N_Cook wrote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those
keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM
radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator
12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and
the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try
in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas
before
rejecting the project?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




There's guys who do this regularly, I don't know the details but
hopefully some of them will reply with details. Undertaking this myself,
I would be inclined to replace the vibrator with solid state internals,
not too difficult and you get a lot of added reliability. I'm a little
confused when you say you're operating the FM receiver off the HV power
supply, are you trying to regulate down from the B+ supplied to the
tubes? If you need isolation, how about one of those little DC-DC
converters? I salvaged one from an old eithernet card for a different
automotive project where I needed isolation.

An option that would avoid modifying the original radio at all is to
use a low power AM transmitter fed by the FM receiver and just stick
that elsewhere.

I've replaced the switches with a 10 turn pot for dial tuning of the FM via
the varicap. The 3V is derived from the 12V which is positive ground which
I'm wondering if that may be part of the problem, grounding the + rail of
the TDA. The audio out buffered through a transistor, I've fed in via a
switch , at the volume control prior to the EL42.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
DaveM...
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:22 pm
Guest
"hr(bob) hofmann at (no spam) att.net" <hrhofmann at (no spam) att.net> wrote in message
news:b218b8a5-7fb3-49ea-9794-7feac9dbf096 at (no spam) 2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 10, 4:14 pm, "N_Cook" <dive... at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
James Sweet <jamesswe... at (no spam) trashmail.net> wrote in message

news:aetdk.1248$bn3.1183 at (no spam) trnddc07...


N_Cook wrote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those
keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM
radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator
12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and
the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try
in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas
before
rejecting the project?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

There's guys who do this regularly, I don't know the details but
hopefully some of them will reply with details. Undertaking this myself,
I would be inclined to replace the vibrator with solid state internals,
not too difficult and you get a lot of added reliability. I'm a little
confused when you say you're operating the FM receiver off the HV power
supply, are you trying to regulate down from the B+ supplied to the
tubes? If you need isolation, how about one of those little DC-DC
converters? I salvaged one from an old eithernet card for a different
automotive project where I needed isolation.

An option that would avoid modifying the original radio at all is to
use a low power AM transmitter fed by the FM receiver and just stick
that elsewhere.

I've replaced the switches with a 10 turn pot for dial tuning of the FM via
the varicap. The 3V is derived from the 12V which is positive ground which
I'm wondering if that may be part of the problem, grounding the + rail of
the TDA. The audio out buffered through a transistor, I've fed in via a
switch , at the volume control prior to the EL42.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

YOu need to figure out if the Hash is getting conducted or radiated
into the receiver. It should be posible to put the FM unit into an
aluminum foil shielded compartment and then filter the heck out of the
input voltage.

Bob Hofmann

Yeppers, that's exactly what I was going to suggest. I'll bet that shielding
will significantly reduce the hash. Probably need to use a shielded wire for
the antenna as well.
The vibrator is a nasty source of hash noise, and it might take a lot of
shielding to get it under control. I don't think the positive ground system is
necessarily a show stopper. You'll just have to experiment to get the right
configuration... what and how to shield and where to connect it.

--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate characters in the
address)

Experience: What you get when you don't get what you want
Joerg...
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:48 pm
Guest
DaveM wrote:
Quote:
"hr(bob) hofmann at (no spam) att.net" <hrhofmann at (no spam) att.net> wrote in message
news:b218b8a5-7fb3-49ea-9794-7feac9dbf096 at (no spam) 2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 10, 4:14 pm, "N_Cook" <dive... at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:
James Sweet <jamesswe... at (no spam) trashmail.net> wrote in message

news:aetdk.1248$bn3.1183 at (no spam) trnddc07...


N_Cook wrote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those
keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM
radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator
12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and
the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try
in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas
before
rejecting the project?
--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
There's guys who do this regularly, I don't know the details but
hopefully some of them will reply with details. Undertaking this myself,
I would be inclined to replace the vibrator with solid state internals,
not too difficult and you get a lot of added reliability. I'm a little
confused when you say you're operating the FM receiver off the HV power
supply, are you trying to regulate down from the B+ supplied to the
tubes? If you need isolation, how about one of those little DC-DC
converters? I salvaged one from an old eithernet card for a different
automotive project where I needed isolation.
An option that would avoid modifying the original radio at all is to
use a low power AM transmitter fed by the FM receiver and just stick
that elsewhere.
I've replaced the switches with a 10 turn pot for dial tuning of the FM via
the varicap. The 3V is derived from the 12V which is positive ground which
I'm wondering if that may be part of the problem, grounding the + rail of
the TDA. The audio out buffered through a transistor, I've fed in via a
switch , at the volume control prior to the EL42.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

YOu need to figure out if the Hash is getting conducted or radiated
into the receiver. It should be posible to put the FM unit into an
aluminum foil shielded compartment and then filter the heck out of the
input voltage.

Bob Hofmann

Yeppers, that's exactly what I was going to suggest. I'll bet that shielding
will significantly reduce the hash. Probably need to use a shielded wire for
the antenna as well.
The vibrator is a nasty source of hash noise, and it might take a lot of
shielding to get it under control. I don't think the positive ground system is
necessarily a show stopper. You'll just have to experiment to get the right
configuration... what and how to shield and where to connect it.


Or put in a modern little isolated switcher followed by a LM317 linear
regulator. OTOH this sounds like a vintage car and one isn't supposed to
have modern fluff such as FM, let alone <gasp> integrated circuits in
there ;-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
ChrisCoaster...
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:04 am
Guest
On Jul 10, 1:26 pm, "N_Cook" <dive... at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator 12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas before
rejecting the project?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
_________________

There used to be this FM tuner, back 30-40 years ago when most cars
came only with AM radio standard; FM and/or cassette cost extra. You
would mount this paperback-book sized unit below the dash, hook it
into power and add an antenna to a fender to pick up signal. On the
back was a switch that allowed you to select one of three AM
frequencies to which this FM Tuner's AM transmitter would broadcast
the audio to. You would then turn on the existing factory AM radio
and tune it to the AM frequency that matches that selected on the FM
tuner box. Voila - FM - mono! - but FM for sure! I don't know if
this is still manufactured or if most of them are in wrecking yards or
in peoples' garages gathering dust.

Basically it contained an AM transmitter similar to the FM transmitter
you'd plug a MP3 player into, nowadays, to transmit the MP3's audio
over a selected FM freq, IE 88.7 or 108.1 .

-CC
Barry OGrady...
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:17 pm
Guest
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:26:22 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator 12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas before
rejecting the project?

New AM/FM car radios are cheap.

Quote:
--

Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Brenda Ann...
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:32 pm
Guest
"Barry OGrady" <god_free_jones at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5h8g74lj9k8f3j5b3jppb4vs9a243s4639 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Quote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:26:22 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM
radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator
12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and
the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas
before
rejecting the project?

New AM/FM car radios are cheap.


This is true, but the OP, and many classic car buffs (most, in fact) do not
want to have a modern radio in the dash. They want the original, or one that
looks exactly like the original.
MikeS...
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:46 am
Guest
On Jul 11, 11:32 pm, "Brenda Ann" <bren... at (no spam) shinbiro.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_free_jo... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:5h8g74lj9k8f3j5b3jppb4vs9a243s4639 at (no spam) 4ax.com...





On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:26:22 +0100, "N_Cook" <dive... at (no spam) tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Seemed a neat idea but ...
There is space inside this 1950s dashboard radio for one of those keyfob/
matchbox size FM radios, this one based on a TDA7088T. The original AM
radio
works fine, well minimal hash from the buzzer mechanism of the vibrator
12V
to HV supply and the FM works fine with a proper linear mains derived HV
unit and the 12V to 3V ps. But try the FM off the original HV supply and
the
hash from the buzzer mechanism makes it unlistenable to. Whatever I try in
the way of screening/ wire routing makes little difference. Any ideas
before
rejecting the project?

New AM/FM car radios are cheap.

This is true, but the OP, and many classic car buffs (most, in fact) do not
want to have a modern radio in the dash. They want the original, or one that
looks exactly like the original.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
---

How about an MP3 player:
http://wps.com/projects/MP3-system/radio-player.html
 
Page 1 of 1       All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:05 pm