| |
 |
|
|
Science Forum Index » Space - Shuttle Forum » Russian plans - A New space race?...
Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next
|
| Author |
Message |
| J Waggoner... |
 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:31 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
I've heard many Russians comment that the anti-Russian moon move has
rekindled some competition and may have resulted in the "coolness" on
station. That being very little if any interaction with the Russian
segment, curtailing of Russian participation of silly and numberless
press conferences which I don't disagree with at all.
Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use. Any chance the Russians and Chinese may partner to
beat us back to the Moon?
All these are intended as hypothetical and will depend a lot on the
Putin controlled govt. But with the newer investments in the Russian
military can space be far behind? Me thinks not Comrades.. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Brian Gaff... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:14 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
I think you are mixing up posturing for political reasons and the reality of
the world situation actually. Of course Russia wants its people and all who
have been or are thinking of being its friends to have confidence in it, so
not being a lapdog of the US is a great stance considering the bungles the
US makes of foreign policy these days.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1 at (no spam) blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"J Waggoner" <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote in message
news:999u549rvd2j1t2l2v2kf0d2qdicatopgv at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Quote:
Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
I've heard many Russians comment that the anti-Russian moon move has
rekindled some competition and may have resulted in the "coolness" on
station. That being very little if any interaction with the Russian
segment, curtailing of Russian participation of silly and numberless
press conferences which I don't disagree with at all.
Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use. Any chance the Russians and Chinese may partner to
beat us back to the Moon?
All these are intended as hypothetical and will depend a lot on the
Putin controlled govt. But with the newer investments in the Russian
military can space be far behind? Me thinks not Comrades.. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:36 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
J Waggoner <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote:
Quote: Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
Russia has been 'planning' to build their own (new) station MIR style
and to revive their Lunar program since about 1x10-9 seconds after the
USSR ceased to exist. The only tangible results to come out of the
last seventeen odd years is heaps of press releases, viewgraphs, and
power points explaining how any day now Russia is going to leap to the
forefront of space stunts.
Only the impressionable have been impressed.
Quote: Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use.
Other than the fact that there is no such booster as the Energia,
sure. Whatever.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| OM... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:12 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:36:28 GMT, fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com (Derek Lyons)
wrote:
Quote: Russia has been 'planning' to build their own (new) station MIR style
and to revive their Lunar program since about 1x10-9 seconds after the
USSR ceased to exist. The only tangible results to come out of the
last seventeen odd years is heaps of press releases, viewgraphs, and
power points explaining how any day now Russia is going to leap to the
forefront of space stunts.
....You forgot the mockups. They made some nice mockups.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| OM... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:15 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:14:29 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
<Briang1 at (no spam) blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: I think you are mixing up posturing for political reasons and the reality of
the world situation actually.
....Actually, I think he's just trolling.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| J Waggoner... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:28 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
An I'm proud to be an american where at least I oppose tyranny.
Repeal the patriot act, how partriotic. :)
The Mockup yes. last time I looked the Buran was launched on top of
something.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:12:37 -0500, OM <om at (no spam) all_trolls_must_DIE.com>
wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:36:28 GMT, fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com (Derek Lyons)
wrote:
Russia has been 'planning' to build their own (new) station MIR style
and to revive their Lunar program since about 1x10-9 seconds after the
USSR ceased to exist. The only tangible results to come out of the
last seventeen odd years is heaps of press releases, viewgraphs, and
power points explaining how any day now Russia is going to leap to the
forefront of space stunts.
...You forgot the mockups. They made some nice mockups.
OM |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:48 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
OM <om at (no spam) all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:36:28 GMT, fairwater at (no spam) gmail.com (Derek Lyons)
wrote:
Russia has been 'planning' to build their own (new) station MIR style
and to revive their Lunar program since about 1x10-9 seconds after the
USSR ceased to exist. The only tangible results to come out of the
last seventeen odd years is heaps of press releases, viewgraphs, and
power points explaining how any day now Russia is going to leap to the
forefront of space stunts.
...You forgot the mockups. They made some nice mockups.
Ah yes - the lovely mockups. The best use of that blizzard of paper
would have been to laminate it and build lovely mockups.
Then we could stack the mockups up and bloody well walk to the moon.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:49 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
J Waggoner <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote:
Quote: The Mockup yes. last time I looked the Buran was launched on top of
something.
When you sober up, look up the current status of that something.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Brian Thorn... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:12 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:31:33 -0500, J Waggoner <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net>
wrote:
Quote:
Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again
Doesn't look likely. Despite their booming economy, funding for space
is still pathetically low. For now, they're still dreaming about major
expansion of their side of ISS.
Quote: ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
They're not cut out, they're just not going to be allowed in the
critical path again. This isn't anti-Russian... the Europeans and
Japanese are in the same boat.
Quote: That being very little if any interaction with the Russian
segment, curtailing of Russian participation of silly and numberless
press conferences which I don't disagree with at all.
The Russians don't have a lab on ISS yet, so there's not a lot for
them to do besides the nuts and bolts jobs, like fixing toilets, and
the ocassional Soyuz and Progress flights. And that's entirely their
fault, no one else's. Their lab (the only one of three originally
planned that is still in the works) is scheduled to fly in 2010, by
last schedule. Don't hold your breath.
Quote: Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use. Any chance the Russians and Chinese may partner to
beat us back to the Moon?
Nope. The Chinese don't like the Russians any more than the rest of
the world does. America has a black eye for now because of Iraq (time
will tell if that remains the case) but the world still wants to do
business with America, and despite the angry shouts and protests,
there is no shortage of partners for American space missions, i.e.,
Jason 2/OSTM or Phoenix. Russia is generally only a partner because
they provide cheap launches and have a few niche markets to
themselves.
Quote: All these are intended as hypothetical and will depend a lot on the
Putin controlled govt. But with the newer investments in the Russian
military can space be far behind? Me thinks not Comrades..
The new investments are nowhere in sight. Sure, we have lots of pretty
pictures of the next vehicle that's gonna be "the greatest thing since
sliced bread", but we've been seeing this for 20 years at least (the
most recent was Kliper, which the Russia fans were telling us was
going to be wonderful and would show up Orion. They get real quiet
when asked about Kliper these days.) I'll believe it when I see it.
Brian |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Brian Thorn... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:16 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:12:37 -0500, OM <om at (no spam) all_trolls_must_DIE.com>
wrote:
Quote: ...You forgot the mockups. They made some nice mockups.
Yep, I can't wait to hop on the next Boeing Sonic Cruiser to go catch
my flight on a Angara/Kliper...
Brian |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Brian Thorn... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:17 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:28:20 -0500, J Waggoner <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net>
wrote:
Quote: The Mockup yes. last time I looked the Buran was launched on top of
something.
It was, the last Energia. That was 1988.
Both are now dead and gone.
Brian |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Jeff Findley... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:33 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"J Waggoner" <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote in message
news:999u549rvd2j1t2l2v2kf0d2qdicatopgv at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Quote:
Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
I've heard many Russians comment that the anti-Russian moon move has
rekindled some competition and may have resulted in the "coolness" on
station. That being very little if any interaction with the Russian
segment, curtailing of Russian participation of silly and numberless
press conferences which I don't disagree with at all.
Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use. Any chance the Russians and Chinese may partner to
beat us back to the Moon?
Energia is likely as dead as Saturn V. It only flew twice, and was scrapped
long ago when the Russian economy collapsed upon itself.
Still, it's extremely unlikely that the US would rely on the Russians to
launch (nearly) everything needed for a lunar mission on Energia.
Quote: All these are intended as hypothetical and will depend a lot on the
Putin controlled govt. But with the newer investments in the Russian
military can space be far behind? Me thinks not Comrades..
I don't think the US can count on the Russians for much of anything. We'll
be lucky if they can ramp up the production of Soyuz and Progress capsules
to support the full ISS crew size of six.
Jeff
--
A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| André, PE1PQX... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:56 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Jeff Findley formuleerde de vraag :
Quote: "J Waggoner" <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote in message
news:999u549rvd2j1t2l2v2kf0d2qdicatopgv at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
I've heard many Russians comment that the anti-Russian moon move has
rekindled some competition and may have resulted in the "coolness" on
station. That being very little if any interaction with the Russian
segment, curtailing of Russian participation of silly and numberless
press conferences which I don't disagree with at all.
Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use. Any chance the Russians and Chinese may partner to
beat us back to the Moon?
Energia is likely as dead as Saturn V. It only flew twice, and was scrapped
long ago when the Russian economy collapsed upon itself.
Still, it's extremely unlikely that the US would rely on the Russians to
launch (nearly) everything needed for a lunar mission on Energia.
All these are intended as hypothetical and will depend a lot on the
Putin controlled govt. But with the newer investments in the Russian
military can space be far behind? Me thinks not Comrades..
I don't think the US can count on the Russians for much of anything. We'll
be lucky if they can ramp up the production of Soyuz and Progress capsules to
support the full ISS crew size of six.
Jeff
Looking at your comments, I think the European Ariane 5 can make a good
chance.... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| J Waggoner... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:12 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
You all seem to think that Putin is somehow a leader for peace or
something. Once China gets their program going in a big way
I look to see Russian cooperation on a lunar mission in the next
decade. The Europeans maybe able to come up with an Orion
type craft, but I haven't seen anything concrete either.
Hopefully the decision to end shuttle will be reversed by the next
administration. It could happen. Probably won't. but could.
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:56:39 +0200, André, PE1PQX
<Andre_geenviagra at (no spam) pe1pqx.eu> wrote:
Quote: Jeff Findley formuleerde de vraag :
"J Waggoner" <jwaggon at (no spam) alltel.net> wrote in message
news:999u549rvd2j1t2l2v2kf0d2qdicatopgv at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Since the decision for reasons not announced but known to anyone with
a slight political science inclination, i.e., and increasingly hostile
and anti-American, anti-NATO stance adopted by the Putin controlled
Junta that now rules Russia, are we to understand that Russia may be
planning to either build their own station again ala Mir style or
could even revive and improved their long dead Moon program since
being "cut out" of the new Nasa initiative.
I've heard many Russians comment that the anti-Russian moon move has
rekindled some competition and may have resulted in the "coolness" on
station. That being very little if any interaction with the Russian
segment, curtailing of Russian participation of silly and numberless
press conferences which I don't disagree with at all.
Energia seems a logical alternative to the Ares V rocket which is the
obvious heavy lift alternative vehicle hidden in the LM booster and
TLI dual use. Any chance the Russians and Chinese may partner to
beat us back to the Moon?
Energia is likely as dead as Saturn V. It only flew twice, and was scrapped
long ago when the Russian economy collapsed upon itself.
Still, it's extremely unlikely that the US would rely on the Russians to
launch (nearly) everything needed for a lunar mission on Energia.
All these are intended as hypothetical and will depend a lot on the
Putin controlled govt. But with the newer investments in the Russian
military can space be far behind? Me thinks not Comrades..
I don't think the US can count on the Russians for much of anything. We'll
be lucky if they can ramp up the production of Soyuz and Progress capsules to
support the full ISS crew size of six.
Jeff
Looking at your comments, I think the European Ariane 5 can make a good
chance....
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Jeff Findley... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:32 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"André, PE1PQX" <Andre_geenviagra at (no spam) pe1pqx.eu> wrote in message
news:mn.0bf87d8735bf99ba.88137 at (no spam) pe1pqx.eu...
Quote: Looking at your comments, I think the European Ariane 5 can make a good
chance....
Technically, yes, politically, no. The US would use Delta IV Heavies and
Atlas V Heavies before they'd launch US payloads on a foreign launcher.
The reason that NASA is pushing Ares I and Ares V is because politically,
it's good to preserve some shuttle jobs. Well, that and Griffin is wearing
blinders and won't listen to any other alternatives.
Jeff
--
A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:42 am
|
|