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Science Forum Index » Materials Forum » Amalgam Potentials Measured in Absence of Saliva - In 1952!
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| Paul O... |
 Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:24 am |
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Keith P Walsh wrote:
Quote: snip
confirmation that "bone fluid" is indeed able to act as such.
I would therefore suggest that the "bone fluid" explanation, put
forward by Schriever and Diamond as a requirenment for the generation
of electrical potentials by amalgam dental fillings in the absence of
any contact with saliva, is not necessarily correct.
Would you agree?
snip
Its hard to say. Why don't you run a few tests and find out...
--
Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC) |
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| Keith P Walsh... |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:21 am |
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On 7 May, 15:24, Paul O <first.d.l... at (no spam) company.com> wrote:
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Its hard to say. Why don't you run a few tests and find out...
Back in 1992, in a master's degree thesis which appears to be
attributed to Peter Sheridan, who was then a part-time Lecturer in the
faculty of dentistry at Sydney university, the author makes the
following declaration:
"Electrical Reading of restorations is particularly
worthless....firstly there is no consensus as to what these devices
are actually measuring and secondly, electric potentials or corrosion
rate have not been established as significant factors in the body
burden of mercury."
(For the complete article search newsgroup alt.support.mult-sclerosis
for "Peter Sheridan")
Two things strike me about this statement. Firstly, the author appears
to be suggesting that because scientists can't agree on the
explanation for the measurements of electrical potentials taken from
amalgams (remember that they can be measured in the complete absence
of any contact with saliva), then we should just forget about them!
That's not scientific reasoning!
Amalgam dental fillings are placed in children's teeth! If it is
possible to detect that they generate electrical potentials then these
potentials should be measured again and again and again!, until there
IS consensus as to what these measurements are telling us!
That is the scientific response!
And secondly, aside from the "body burden of mercury", it has not been
established either whether or not electrical potentials in amalgams
are a factor in increasing the body burden of ELECTRICAL CURRENT.
That's because it appears that the experimental investigations which
would be necessary in order to do so have never been carried out.
It is the natural function of the human neurological system to
transmit signals in the form of tiny electrical currents. However, it
is NOT the natural function of the human neurological system to be
constantly dissipating the electrical potentials generated by amalgam
dental fillings.
(Remember that the widespread adoption of metal amalgam as a material
for use in restorative dentistry was quickly followed by a rise to
prominence of psychiatric "medicine" in our societies.)
In recent years technologists have developed extremely sensitive
instruments which are able to measure neurological activity in the
human body.
However, it appears that no attempt has yet been made to detect any
difference between the neurological activity in the vicinity of teeth
with amalgam fillings and the neurological activity in the vicinity of
teeth without.
So when it comes to making up our minds whether or not to believe that
amalgam fillings are "safe", we can only judge from a position of
ignorance.
Keith P Walsh
PS, I suspect that the University of Sydney did award Peter Sheridan
his master's degree. |
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| Paul O... |
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:12 pm |
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Keith P Walsh wrote, On 5/11/2008 4:21 PM:
Quote:
snip
So when it comes to making up our minds whether or not to believe that
amalgam fillings are "safe", we can only judge from a position of
ignorance.
snip
And that is exactly why we need Keith Walsh to run the appropriate tests
and take the required measurements. We simply can not trust this vital
research to any other person.
Does anyone out their concur with my opinion?
--
Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC) |
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| M.A. Sonjariv... |
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:53 pm |
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:12:01 -0400, Paul O <first.d.last at (no spam) company.com>
wrote:
Quote: Keith P Walsh wrote, On 5/11/2008 4:21 PM:
snip
So when it comes to making up our minds whether or not to believe that
amalgam fillings are "safe", we can only judge from a position of
ignorance.
snip
And that is exactly why we need Keith Walsh to run the appropriate tests
and take the required measurements. We simply can not trust this vital
research to any other person.
Does anyone out their concur with my opinion?
Oh gosh yes!
No doubt ONLY Keith P Walsh can make these measurements and determine
once and for all whatever it is Keith P Walsh has been posting about
the past 3-4 years.
Now watch, Keith P Walsh will post reams of detail on his myriad of
posts from the past.
MA Sonjariv |
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| Keith P Walsh... |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:38 am |
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On 12 May, 18:12, Paul O <first.d.l... at (no spam) company.com> wrote:
Quote:
And that is exactly why we need Keith Walsh to run the appropriate tests
and take the required measurements. We simply can not trust this vital
research to any other person.
In my experience members of so-called "professional" bodies such as,
for example, the American Dental Association like to presume that they
are in a position to declare that metal amalgam dental fillings are
"safe".
However, it is a simple matter to demonstrate that they are not in any
such position at all.
Whether or not anyone agrees on exactly how they are generateded, it
has been demonstrated experimentally that amalgam dental fillings
generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350
millivolts. See:
http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm
However, in spite of the fact that the resting potential of the human
neurological synapse is only 70 millivolts, and in spite of the fact
that in recent years technologists have developed extremely sensitive
instruments which are able to measure neurological activity in the
human body very accurately, it appears that experimental procedures to
demonstrate whether or not it is possible to detect any difference
between neurological activity in the vicinity of teeth with amalgam
fillings and neurological activity in the vicinity of teeth without
them have not been carried out.
Therefore from the scientific point of view the American Dental
association is in no position to declare that, as far as it is
possible to know, the electrical potentials generated by metal amalgam
dental fillings do not dissipate electrical energy through the nerves
in people's heads.
And for organisations like the American Dental Association (and the
British Dental Association, and the Canadian Dental Association, and
every other dental association under the sun which continues to
endorse the use of amalgams) to justify their stance on amalgam THEY
THEMSELVES bear the responsibility for demonstrating the results of
these experiments.
The continued use of amalgam fillings is not scientifically justified
otherwise.
Keith P Walsh
PS, remember that it isn't enough simply to say that "we've been
getting away with it for nearly two hundred years now". That doesn't
constitute a scientific argument. The widespread adoption of metal
amalgams for use in restorative dentistry was quickly followed by the
rise to prominence of psychiatric "medicine" in our societies. And as
far as I am aware scientific investigations to establish the extent to
which these two facts are linked by the relationship of cause and
effect have not been carried out either. Do you know of any? Or are
you just as ignorant as the rest of us? |
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| Paul O... |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:33 pm |
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Keith P Walsh wrote, On 5/14/2008 1:38 PM:
Quote: On 12 May, 18:12, Paul O <first.d.l... at (no spam) company.com> wrote:
And that is exactly why we need Keith Walsh to run the appropriate tests
and take the required measurements. We simply can not trust this vital
research to any other person.
snip same old stuff
And as
far as I am aware scientific investigations to establish the extent to
which these two facts are linked by the relationship of cause and
effect have not been carried out either. Do you know of any? Or are
you just as ignorant as the rest of us?
Keith,
I guess I'm just as ignorant as the rest of us. Why don't you do the
appropriate scientific investigation and then you can enlighten the rest
of us...
--
Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC) |
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| Keith P Walsh... |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:57 am |
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On 12 May, 19:53, M.A. Sonjariv <mason... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Now watch, Keith P Walsh will post reams of detail on his myriad of
posts from the past.
Well of course, back in 2002 I read the following statement on the
website of the Canadian Dental Association:
"It should be noted that Health Canada has taken the position that
"new amalgam fillings should not be placed in contact with existing
metal devices in the mouth, such as braces.""
It's still there. You can find it at:
http://www.cda-adc.ca/en/oral_health/faqs_resources/faqs/dental_amalgam_faqs.asp#2
The CDA goes on to say:
"Health Canada's concern is related to galvanic effect, which occurs
when two different metals are in close proximity and create the
potential for electric current to be generated."
When I first read this six years ago I immediately wrote to Dr Philip
Neufeld of Health Canada asking the question:
"Is this recommendation intended to apply to metal alloy retaining
pins screwed into the root sockets of a patient's tooth?"
- and in his reply he "explained" the following:
"... it is unlikely that a metal retaining pin implanted into the
tooth or the jaw bone would cause galvanic currents. In order for
galvanic currents to be created, the pin would have to be in contact
with an electrolyte such as saliva or extracellular fluids, ..."
But now we find that as long ago as 1952 it was discovered that
amalgam dental fillings are still able to generate electrical
potentials even when their outer surfaces (i.e those which are exposed
to the environment of the oral cavity) are not in contact with saliva
or any other electrolyte.
It's all in the Schriever and Diamond report entitled "ELECTROMOTIVE
FORCES AND ELECTRIC CURRENTS CAUSED BY METALLIC DENTAL FILLINGS"
And in order to explain what they found, Schriever and Diamond said:
"Since the teeth were dry the potential difference V1 (Fig. 3) was the
e.m.f. (e) caused by the action of the bone fluid on the two fillings,
i.e., e = V1."
I think that there is an obvious contradiction here.
Can you offer any resolution for it?
Or do your "abilities" in scientific reasoning only allow you the
option of ridiculing me again for pointing this contradiction out to
you?
Keith P Walsh |
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| Keith P Walsh... |
| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:06 pm |
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On 17 May, 05:32, Steven Fawks <tuthjoc... at (no spam) myturbonet.com> wrote:
Quote:
It isn't the material, it's how they are placed.
Steve
An excellent point Steve!
Do you think that the fact that the millions of people around the
world now have resin fillings in their teeth without reporting any
discomfort from them might indicate that our friend Robert had some of
his resin fillings placed incorrectly?
You know, the quality of and confidence in composite resin ("white")
fillings are now so far advanced that some countries (e.g. Sweden,
Norway and now Denmark) have banned the use of mercury amalgams
completely!
See "Amalgam ban causes a stir" at:
http://www.dentistry.co.uk/news/news_detail.php?id=992
Now, I appreciate that some of you Americans prefer to imagine that
your own institutions are smarter than everyone else's. However, and
with all due respect Steve, I think that this may have more to do with
a greater propensity for arrogance than with any superior abilities in
understanding, especially when it comes to explaining the electrical
behavior of metal dental fillings.
Which brings me back to the topic of our thread. In recent years
technologists have developed extremely sensitive instruments which are
able to measure neurological activity in the human body very
accurately. Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been
carried out in order to detect whether or not there is any difference
between neurological activity in the vicinity of teeth with amalgam
fillings and neurological activity in the vicinity of teeth with resin
composite fillings.
If not, then perhaps we would need to work fast to get them done
before amalgam fillings are banned everywhere!
And wouldn't our friend Robert feel silly if it turned out he's having
the electric batteries put back in his teeth?!
Keith P Walsh
PS, remeber that it has been demonstrated experimentally that amalgam
dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up
to 350 millivolts. See:
http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm
And the resting potential of the human neurological synapse is only 70
millivolts.
(And of course, according to messrs Schriever and Diamond, amalgam
fillings are able to generate electrical potentials even when they are
not in contact with any saliva.) |
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| Paul O... |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:14 am |
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Keith P Walsh wrote, On 5/15/2008 1:57 PM:
Quote: snip
I think that there is an obvious contradiction here.
Can you offer any resolution for it?
Or do your "abilities" in scientific reasoning only allow you the
option of ridiculing me again for pointing this contradiction out to
you?
Keith P Walsh
Keith P Walsh can find the resolution to this problem by performing the
a series of experiments and making the appropriate measurements...
--
Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC) |
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