Four Logic Levels

Main Page | Report this Page

Science Forum Index » Electronics - Design Forum » Four Logic Levels

Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next

Author

Message

Robotnik

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:09 am

Guest

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2.
If we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3
or 4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than
1.584 times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2
(twice ) if the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments
are invited.

John Larkin

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:19 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Robotnik
<fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

http://www.siliconfareast.com/flash-memory.htm

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/ISMVL/flash.html

John

Vladimir Vassilevsky

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:22 am

Guest

Robotnik wrote:

Quote:

Google "Multi level flash memory"

Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com

Jim Thompson

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:40 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:19:10 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Robotnik
fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2.
If we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3
or 4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than
1.584 times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2
(twice ) if the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments
are invited.

http://www.siliconfareast.com/flash-memory.htm

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/ISMVL/flash.html

John

Spehro Pefhany

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:48 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Robotnik
<fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Commonly used in mask ROM and probably others for many years. See,
for example, US 5585297.

It doesn't "square" the amount of information, it multiplies it by

log2(n) = ln(n)/ln(2)

... where n is the number of logic levels that can be reliably detected
over temperature, process variations, noise etc.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Vladimir Vassilevsky

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:54 am

Guest

Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:

I do it all the time, but not at speed... I use it to set options on a
chip:

Option 1, pin grounded
Option 2, pin floating
Option 3, pin tied to VDD

So, is your pin grounded, or floating, or tied to Vdd?

VLV

Jim Thompson

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:01 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:54:19 GMT, Vladimir Vassilevsky
<antispam_bogus@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

I do it all the time, but not at speed... I use it to set options on a
chip:

Option 1, pin grounded
Option 2, pin floating
Option 3, pin tied to VDD

So, is your pin grounded, or floating, or tied to Vdd?

VLV

Jan Panteltje

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:04 am

Guest

On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robotnik
<fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote in
<5848b1ff-dc0a-4b22-a70b-d1a9749014f1@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>:

Quote:

This is not new, and is done in FLASH memory to increase capacity.
Intel, are they at 4 analog levels now?

Bob Eld

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:18 am

Guest

"Robotnik" <fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5848b1ff-dc0a-4b22-a70b-d1a9749014f1@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

They have this with a thousand or more levels, it's called ANALOG!

Actually, digital transmission schemes like QAM, PAM, etc. use a number of
levels and phase of a carrier to form an information symbol. Each symbol
corresponds to a digital bit pattern.

For example, in 16-QAM there are four levels and four phases of the carrier.
At any given instant in time the level and phase corresponds to one of the
16 possible positions of amplitude and phase. This pattern is called a
constellation. Each of the 16 positions forms a symbol of a four bit
pattern. (four bits has 16 values) Therefore four bits at a time are carried
at every instant.

Note that bits are not carried or transmitted. Amplitude and phase of a sine
wave is carried. This is just an example many schemes are possible some
carrying 8 or more bits per symbol. Eight bits requires a 256 position
constellation of phase and amplitude.

Spehro Pefhany

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:30 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:40:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:19:10 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Robotnik
fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2.
If we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3
or 4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than
1.584 times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2
(twice ) if the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments
are invited.

http://www.siliconfareast.com/flash-memory.htm

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/ISMVL/flash.html

John

I do it all the time, but not at speed... I use it to set options on a
chip:

Option 1, pin grounded
Option 2, pin floating
Option 3, pin tied to VDD

...Jim Thompson

What circuitry is required to turn that single input into 2 bits at
CMOS levels? Do you use high value resistors to set the floating
level or some arrangement of transistors?

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Tim Wescott

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:36 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700, Robotnik wrote:

Quote:

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2. If
we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3 or
4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than 1.584
times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2 (twice ) if
the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments are
invited.

Please find the entry for "cross posting" in Wikipedia, read about cross
posting and multiple posting, then stop multiple posting.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Jim Thompson

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:45 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:30:22 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

Quote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:40:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:19:10 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Robotnik
fathahrahman@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2.
If we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3
or 4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than
1.584 times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2
(twice ) if the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments
are invited.

http://www.siliconfareast.com/flash-memory.htm

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mperkows/ISMVL/flash.html

John

I do it all the time, but not at speed... I use it to set options on a
chip:

Option 1, pin grounded
Option 2, pin floating
Option 3, pin tied to VDD

...Jim Thompson

What circuitry is required to turn that single input into 2 bits at
CMOS levels?

Inverters sized for thresholds at 1/4 and 3/4 of VDD is one way.

Quote:

Do you use high value resistors to set the floating
level or some arrangement of transistors?

High-value resistors typically (typical 1K/sq available on analog
processes).

Quote:

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Jim Thompson

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:49 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:36:32 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com>
wrote:

Quote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700, Robotnik wrote:

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2. If
we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3 or
4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than 1.584
times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2 (twice ) if
the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments are
invited.

Please find the entry for "cross posting" in Wikipedia, read about cross
posting and multiple posting, then stop multiple posting.

John Larkin

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:01 am

Guest

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:36:32 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com>
wrote:

Quote:

http://www.netspace.org/~dmacks/internet-songbook/net-cops-song.html

John

rickman

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:28 pm

Guest

On Apr 30, 11:04 am, Jan Panteltje <PNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robotnik
fathahrah...@gmail.com> wrote in
5848b1ff-dc0a-4b22-a70b-d1a974901...@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>:

Hey guys,
I was thinking of a new concept whereby we could
square the amount of information stored in a bit. Currently, the
information stored in a bit is whether the bit is on or off. To put it
simply, the information has a base (remember, logarithmic base) of 2.
If we could develop a mechanism whereby the base can be increased to 3
or 4, the amount of information stored can increased to more than
1.584 times in the case where the base is increased to two or 2
(twice ) if the base is increased to 4.
This can be accomplished by sensitizing 3(4 if
possible) voltage levels instead of the two currently. Your comments
are invited.

This is not new, and is done in FLASH memory to increase capacity.
Intel, are they at 4 analog levels now?

I believe I have read that they are working on 16 levels! That would
be four bits in 1 cell! The drive for density is relentless!!!

Rick

Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next All times are GMT - 5 Hours The time now is Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:12 pm Science Forum Index