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0BZN0

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:37 pm

Guest

April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm

Mark Steyn:

The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

The first victims of poseur environmentalism will always be developing
countries.

In order for you to put biofuel in your Prius and feel good about
yourself for no reason, real actual people in faraway places have to
starve to death.
--

Warmest Regards

Bonzo

"If scientists say they are 100% sure, or that they are absolutely
certain about the cause and effect and ignore variables which might show
that they could be wrong, they are practicing junk science. Junk science
happens when scientists believe something based on just some of what
they see."

Fran

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:37 pm

Guest

On Apr 30, 2:37 pm, "0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> wrote:

Quote:

April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm

Mark Steyn:

The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

The ignorant deissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell. Grab any factoid, and turn it
into an argument for protecting the interests of global polluters.

Quote:

The first victims of poseur environmentalism will always be
developing
countries.

Actually, the first victims of poseur humanitarianism will be
developing countries, in the unlikely event anyone of substance is
silly enough to pay attention to them

Quote:

In order for you to put biofuel in your Prius and feel good about
yourself for no reason, real actual people in faraway places have to
starve to death.

A claim which, predictably, Mar Steyn makes no attempt to logically
support. For the GPC spruikers, it's the canard de jour.

Fran

Fran

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:37 pm

Guest

On Apr 30, 3:19 pm, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-
Dog.com> wrote:

Quote:

Fran wrote:
On Apr 30, 2:37 pm, "0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> wrote:
April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm

Mark Steyn:

The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

The ignorant deissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell.

There is no real Warming to deny.

Of course there is. That isn't even a theory. It's observable data.
Most of the deniers admit that the planet has warmed but want to argue
the toss about the causes or whether it's worth doing anything about
it.

Quote:

I am waiting for you to prove your
hypothesis.

The theory that GHGs are driving a warming climate has been very well
established. You needn't await my response. Just take a look at the
IPCC reports. The onus is on you to come up with a theory for the
warming that fits the data better than GHG-forcing.

Irradiance and cosmic rays don't fit.

I note that you say nothing on the central claim made in this post
though.

Fran

Fran

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:37 pm

Guest

On Apr 30, 3:44 pm, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-
Dog.com> wrote:

Quote:

Fran wrote:
On Apr 30, 3:19 pm, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-
Dog.com> wrote:
Fran wrote:
On Apr 30, 2:37 pm, "0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> wrote:
April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm
Mark Steyn:
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:
The ignorant deissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell.
There is no real Warming to deny.

Of course there is. That isn't even a theory. It's observable data.
Most of the deniers admit that the planet has warmed but want to argue
the toss about the causes or whether it's worth doing anything about
it.

10 years of flat to cooling temperature.

Take out the 1998 El Nino (worth about 0.3 degrees C and will happen
again soon enough) and you get a steady upward progression.

Quote:

I am waiting for you to prove your
hypothesis.

The theory that GHGs are driving a warming climate has been very well
established. You needn't await my response. Just take a look at the
IPCC reports. The onus is on you to come up with a theory for the
warming that fits the data better than GHG-forcing.

Better? It's either it or it's not. Instead of showing what it isn't...
simply show the information that proves it to be absolute.

Irradiance and cosmic rays don't fit.

Just because (A) doesn't fit, doesn't make (B) the correct answer.

That's true, but in this case not only doesn't A fit, but B ticks

enough boxes to be the correct answer, and there are no rival
candidates.

Fran

Quote:

I note that you say nothing on the central claim made in this post
though.

Fran- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fran

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:37 pm

Guest

On Apr 30, 2:57 pm, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 30, 2:37 pm, "0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> wrote:

April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm

Mark Steyn:

The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

The ignorant deissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell. Grab any factoid, and turn it
into an argument for protecting the interests of global polluters.

> The first victims of poseur environmentalism will always be
developing

countries.

Actually, the first victims of poseur humanitarianism will be
developing countries, in the unlikely event anyone of substance is
silly enough to pay attention to them

In order for you to put biofuel in your Prius and feel good about
yourself for no reason, real actual people in faraway places have to
starve to death.

A claim which, predictably, Mar Steyn makes no attempt to logically
support. For the GPC spruikers, it's the canard de jour.

Fran

Here's how one source ranks the contributing factors to declining
world food stocks:

|||
Diouf blamed a confluence of recent supply and demand factors for the
crisis, and he predicted that those factors were here to stay. On the
supply side, these include the early effects of global warming, which
has decreased crop yields in some crucial places, and a shift away
from farming for human consumption toward crops for biofuels and
cattle feed. Demand for grain is increasing with the world population,
and more is diverted to feed cattle as the population of upwardly
mobile meat-eaters grows.

To make matters worse, high oil prices have doubled shipping costs in
the past year, putting enormous stress on poor nations that need to
import food as well as the humanitarian agencies that provide it.

Climate specialists say that the vulnerability will only increase as
further effects of climate change are felt. "If there's a significant
change in climate in one of our high production areas, if there is a
disease that effects a major crop, we are in a very risky situation,"
said Mark Howden of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial
Research Organization in Canberra.

Already "unusual weather events," linked to climate change - such as
droughts, floods and storms - have decreased production in important
exporting countries like Australia and Ukraine, Diouf said.

In Southern Australia, a significant reduction in rainfall in the past
few years led some farmers to sell their land and move to Tasmania,
where water is more reliable, said Howden, one of the authors of a
recent series of papers in the Procedings of the National Academy of
Sciences on climate change and the world food supply.

"In the U.S., Australia, and Europe, there's a very substantial
capacity to adapt to the effects on food - with money, technology,
research and development," Howden said. "In the developing world,
there isn't."

The recent scientific papers concluded that farmers could adjust to 1
degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit) to 3 degrees Celsius (5.4
degrees) of warming by switching to more resilient species, changing
planting times, or storing water for irrigation, for example.

But that after that, "all bets are off," said Francesco Tubiello, of
Columbia University Earth Institute. "Many people assume that we will
never have a problem with food production on a global scale, but there
is a strong potential for negative surprises."

In Europe, officials said they were already adjusting policies to the
reality of higher prices. The European Union recently suspended a "set-
aside" of land for next year - a longstanding program that essentially
paid farmers to leave 10 percent of their land untilled as a way to
increase farm prices and reduce surpluses. Also, starting in January,
import tariffs on all cereal will be eliminated for six months, to
make it easier for European countries to buy grain from elsewhere. But
that may make it even harder for poor countries to obtain the grain
they need.

In an effort to promote free markets, the European Union has been in
the process of reducing farm subsidies and this has accelerated the
process.

"It's much easier to do with the new economics," said Michael Mann a
spokesman for the EU agriculture commission. "We saw this coming to a
certain extent, but we are surprised at how quickly it is happening."

But he noted that farm prices the last few decades have been lower
than at any time in history, so the change seems extremely dramatic.

Diouf noted that there had been "tension and political unrest related
to food markets" in a number of poor countries this year, including
Morocco, Senegal and Mauritania. "We need to play a catalytic role to
quickly boost crop production in the most affected countries," he
said.

Part of the current problem is an outgrowth of prosperity. More people
in the world now eat meat, diverting grain from humans to livestock. A
more complicated issue is the use of crops to make biofuels, which are
often heavily subsidized. A major factor in rising corn prices
globally is that many farmers in the United States are now selling
their corn to make subsidized ethanol.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/17/europe/food.php

|||

He does mention biofuels along with cattle feed, but one does wonder
why the GPC are focusing on the former rather than the latter, and why
the fact that crude oil has gone up from about $US 33 BBL in March
2003 to about $US115 now doesn't get a mention from the fossil fool
lobby.

The cost of fossil fuels is an important component in producing food.

Corn to ethanol is of course, stupid, and should not be subsidised In
the US it has to be subsidised because sugar is protected and too
pricey to use to make ethanol. If it wasn't, then Brazilian ethanol
and sugar would depress prices but really, this is a red herring. The
principal factors are rising demands for meat, crop failures related
to climate change, rising fuel prices, and even to some extent,
attempts to support farmers in the develoiping world grow food in ways
that underpin prices, precisely so as to bring about greater equity.

Fran

Poetic Justice

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:19 am

Guest

Fran wrote:

Quote:

There is no real Warming to deny. I am waiting for you to prove your
hypothesis.

Quote:

Actually, the first victims of poseur humanitarianism will be
developing countries, in the unlikely event anyone of substance is
silly enough to pay attention to them

In order for you to put biofuel in your Prius and feel good about
yourself for no reason, real actual people in faraway places have to
starve to death.

A claim which, predictably, Mar Steyn makes no attempt to logically
support. For the GPC spruikers, it's the canard de jour.

Fran

Poetic Justice

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:44 am

Guest

Fran wrote:

Quote:

On Apr 30, 3:19 pm, Poetic Justice <@http://Poetic-Justice.Talk-n-
Dog.com> wrote:
Fran wrote:
On Apr 30, 2:37 pm, "0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> wrote:
April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm
Mark Steyn:
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:
The ignorant deissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell.
There is no real Warming to deny.

Of course there is. That isn't even a theory. It's observable data.
Most of the deniers admit that the planet has warmed but want to argue
the toss about the causes or whether it's worth doing anything about
it.

10 years of flat to cooling temperature.

Quote:

Better? It's either it or it's not. Instead of showing what it isn't...
simply show the information that proves it to be absolute.

Quote:

Irradiance and cosmic rays don't fit.

Just because (A) doesn't fit, doesn't make (B) the correct answer.

Quote:

I note that you say nothing on the central claim made in this post
though.

Fran

Ouroboros_Rex

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:12 pm

Guest

0BZN0 wrote:

Quote:

April 29, 2008 at 06:27pm

Mark Steyn:

ROFLMAO

hanson

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:12 am

Guest

Little green idiot "Fran" <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0265313d-4d30-41be-a27c-3e0a8013e6ba@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
"0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> or Mark Steyn wrote:
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

Quote:

green criminal Fran wrote
The ignorant deissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell. Grab any factoid, and turn it
into an argument for protecting the interests of global polluters.

Quote:

hanson wrote:

The willful dissembling and opportunistic response from the green
shits is a con in a nutshell. Grab any factoid, and turn it into an
argument for protecting the interests of green shits....
who continue to operate according to the edicts of their
GREEN BIBLE that says:

Quote:

= "It doesn't matter what is true ... it only matters what people

= believe is true. -- Paul Watson, Sea Shepard/ex-Greenpeace, &...
= "A lot of environmental [sci/soc/pol] messages are simply not
= accurate. We use hype." -- Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, UoW, and...
= "If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it
= up on the spot ... for the mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant."
= -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's Guide to Strategy.
= "We make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little
= mention of any doubts we may have [about] being honest."
= -- Stephen Schneider (Stanford prof. who first sought fame as
= a global cooler, but has now hit the big time as a global warmer)
= "It is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presen-
= tations" -- Al Gore, Chairman, Gen. Investment Management Bank

Quote:

.... and in this link below you will find the reason why you have been

classified as a little green idiot aka class 3 enviros:
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/70ed6372eccc32ba>
wherein it says:
===== enviros Class (3) -- the Little green idiot(s)...
... .are the unpaid, well-meaning ones, in "environmental
groups", who think they do something for the "environment",
when in fact they are only the enablers and facilitators for
the class (2) enviros, who are harvesting the green $$$
which the class (1) enviros have extorted. (rest see link)

Quote:

Green Crimes, Green Scams, Green Extortions & Green Lies:

<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/14968cc3ee9939d4>

Quote:

Nothing in recent history has been so bad and so corrupt as the

Green movement. --- It is merely a continuation of the planning
type that occurred under the Brown banner and then the Red one.
= Enviros use the same great lies of yore. Only the color changed.
= (A) Environmentalism is Communism in Green...
= (B) Environmentalism is Nazism in Green...
= (C) Environmentalism makes the Poor poorer and the Rich richer.

Quote:

Yet all you class 3 enviros, you hordes of little green idiots

you keep on cheering for green causes, oblivious to that fact
that the Green sharpies are fucking you and fucking you over...
until you can't get a job when you come out of school, or lose
your home, or can't fill up your gas tank to get to work...
Serves you right!... you gullible green morons... AHAHAHA...
Thanks for the laughs..... ahahaha... ahahanson

Quote:

PS:

Years ago, poster Eric Gisin had a prophetic notion when he said:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.org.sierra-club/msg/5bf027613f44f4fa>
"Fucking Greens should be shot for making the world so stupid".

Fran

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:33 am

Guest

On May 2, 1:12 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:

Quote:

Little green idiot "Fran" <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:0265313d-4d30-41be-a27c-3e0a8013e6ba@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
"0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> or Mark Steyn wrote:
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

green criminal Fran wrote
The ignorant dissembling and opportunistic response from the fossil
fuel lobby is denialism in a nutshell. Grab any factoid, and turn it
into an argument for protecting the interests of global polluters.

hanson wrote:

"Hanson" may hate "the greens" but "Hanson" does share one gren idea
-- 'recycling'. "Hanson" recycles an absolute truckload of drivel with
no relevance at all to any contemporary discussion on environmental
policy.

Really all that "Hanson" can manage to say is that "Hanson" hates what
he takes to be 'greens'. "Hanson" might have used one line for that.

That those such as "Hanson" is the best the GPC can come up with just
underscores how desperate they are.

Anotgher example of this Maxim would be the enthusiasm with whicj
brainless GPC cnaller Bonzo quotes Mark Steyn ..

|||
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

The first victims of poseur environmentalism will always be
developing
countries.

In order for you to put biofuel in your Prius and feel good about
yourself for no reason, real actual people in faraway places have to
starve to death.
|||

Now normally, the fossil fool deniers say they don't like models,
especially ones they see as have more predictive results. So how good
at describing and modelling the world is Mark Steyn?

Mark Steyn was of course, the person who claimed that the Virginia
Tech students were 'too passive' in resisting that crazed gunman who
came to kill them on that fateful day.

According to The Guardian in 2006 he also predicted that George Bush
would win the 2000 presidential election in a landslide, said at
regular intervals that Osama bin Laden "will remain dead". Weeks after
the invasion of Iraq he assured his readers that there would be "no
widespread resentment at or resistance of the western military
presence"; in December 2003 he wrote that "another six weeks of
insurgency sounds about right, after which it will peter out"; and the
following March he insisted that: "I don't think it's possible for
anyone who looks at Iraq honestly to see it as anything other than a
success story

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/05/01/fox_news_pundit_all_obamas_associates_come_from_far_left_fringe.php

Now with an impressive track record of claims like that, there really
is only one place for a pundit to go ... and that's to the side of the
global polluters cartel where he can be in the company of others like
"Hanson" and Bonzo who don't make him feel stupid.

Fran

Fran

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:38 am

Guest

On May 2, 1:12 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:

Quote:

hanson

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:13 pm

Guest

....... ahahahahaha.... AHAHAHAHA... ahahahaha.....
"Fran" <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> the little green idiot cranked
himself & wrote in message
news:c952dec2-3517-4896-911f-73bb7b1147cd@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
that he does not know why he is a class 3 enviro..
So, bless you, fat-bro-fran, & here it is again, for your benefit:

Quote:

Little green idiot "Fran" <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:0265313d-4d30-41be-a27c-3e0a8013e6ba@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
"0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> or Mark Steyn wrote:
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

Quote:

green criminal Fran wrote:

Quote:

hanson wrote:

Quote:

= "It doesn't matter what is true ... it only matters what people

Quote:

.... and in this link below you will find the reason why you have been

Quote:

Green Crimes, Green Scams, Green Extortions & Green Lies:

<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/14968cc3ee9939d4>

Quote:

Nothing in recent history has been so bad and so corrupt as the

Quote:

Yet all you class 3 enviros, you hordes of little green idiots

Quote:

PS:

hanson

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:13 pm

Guest

....... ahahahahaha.... AHAHAHAHA... ahahahaha.....
"Fran" <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> the little green idiot cranked
himself & wrote in message
news:beae452d-0837-468a-9c18-9158e0f745c6@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
that he does not know why he is a class 3 enviro..
So, bless you, fat-bro-fran, & here it is again, for your benefit:

Quote:

Little green idiot "Fran" <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:0265313d-4d30-41be-a27c-3e0a8013e6ba@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
"0BZN0" <0B...@ddo.com> or Mark Steyn wrote:
The biofuels debacle is global warm-mongering in a nutshell:

Quote:

green criminal Fran wrote:

Quote:

hanson wrote:

Quote:

= "It doesn't matter what is true ... it only matters what people

Quote:

.... and in this link below you will find the reason why you have been

Quote:

Green Crimes, Green Scams, Green Extortions & Green Lies:

<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/14968cc3ee9939d4>

Quote:

Nothing in recent history has been so bad and so corrupt as the

Quote:

Yet all you class 3 enviros, you hordes of little green idiots

Quote:

PS:

Fran

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:46 pm

Guest

On May 2, 8:13 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:

Quote:

...... ahahahahaha.... AHAHAHAHA... ahahahaha.....

<snip reposted drivel leaving in the most enlightening portions>

Take a hike spammer.

Fran

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