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Science Forum Index » Space - History Forum » On Topic: Choice of paint used inside S-I stage
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| OM |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:42 pm |
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....In an effort to get topics back on track around here - I've nothing
better to do for reasons we're all aware of - here's the first in a
series of topics that might get things going back to normal around
here:
Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[ |
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| M |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:18 pm |
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On Apr 28, 1:42 pm, OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote:
Quote: ...In an effort to get topics back on track around here - I've nothing
better to do for reasons we're all aware of - here's the first in a
series of topics that might get things going back to normal around
here:
Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog -http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
I bet it was zinc chromate paint, used in the aerospace industry to
coat aluminum to prevent corrosion. |
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| Rand Simberg |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:58 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:42:45 -0500, in a place far, far away, OM
<om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:
Quote: ...In an effort to get topics back on track around here - I've nothing
better to do for reasons we're all aware of - here's the first in a
series of topics that might get things going back to normal around
here:
Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
To make inquisitive little boys with (big) booboos on their leg ask
questions.
Obviously, it worked.
Well, anyway, that's *my* best guess. Others, more knowledgeable, may
have better ones. |
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| Damon Hill |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:05 pm |
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OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in
news:7fdc14pii5infa2e681soaoafvlqamjkg4@4ax.com:
Quote: Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
--Damon |
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| Pat Flannery |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:18 pm |
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OM wrote:
Quote: ...In an effort to get topics back on track around here - I've nothing
better to do for reasons we're all aware of - here's the first in a
series of topics that might get things going back to normal around
here:
Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
Was it zinc chromate paint for corrosion resistance?
We had a can of zinc chromate paint around our house when I was a kid,
and although the WW II stuff was light yellow-green, our can had yellow
paint in it.
Pat |
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| Pat Flannery |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:31 pm |
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Damon Hill wrote:
Quote: Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
Corrosion must have been a major concern for NASA with the Saturns in
the humid and salty Cape environment.
Remember how the zinc primer on the Shuttle launch facility leeched off
as zinc oxide during rain and weakened the RCC panels on the wings, by
causing some of the structure to convert to CO2 during reentry.
Then there was SpaceX's failed Falcon launch due to a corroded nut:
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/060719_falcon1_update.html
Pat |
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| Rand Simberg |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:05 pm |
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:05:29 -0500, in a place far, far away, Damon
Hill <damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:
Quote: OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in
news:7fdc14pii5infa2e681soaoafvlqamjkg4@4ax.com:
Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
What a boring answer. |
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| Damon Hill |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:20 pm |
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simberg.interglobal@org.trash (Rand Simberg) wrote in
news:48b59075.304711011@news.giganews.com:
Quote: On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:05:29 -0500, in a place far, far away, Damon
Hill <damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:
OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in
news:7fdc14pii5infa2e681soaoafvlqamjkg4@4ax.com:
Q: After having watched that famous clip of the S-IVB leaving the
Saturn IB's first stage - the one that looks just like the Original
Galactica's main guns firing! - something came to mind that I never
wondered about before. Why was the entire inside of the adapter above
the fuel tanks painted yellow? What was the decision rationale behind
that choice of color? Was there a specific reason yellow was used, and
did it apply to why the same color was used on the top of the S-II
tank dome?
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
What a boring answer.
Yeah, that's practical engineering for you... :)
--Damon |
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| OM |
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:42 pm |
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:52 -0500, Damon Hill
<damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Quote: Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
....This makes sense, as the primer used on a lot of nautical items is
the same type. It does beg the next question as to whether or not the
red/white painting most gantry structures in the early days used was
also of a similar composition to provide the same service.
Quote: What a boring answer.
Yeah, that's practical engineering for you...
....Nah, it's just Rand and his usual short, sniping commentary. I find
now, after all the morphine and dilauded intake, some of the neurons
in my brain that usually fired off RED ALERT signals appear to have
been numbed enough to where I can sort of tolerate it enough to almost
ignore it. Even if he still can't trim his quotes worth a frack.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[ |
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| Damon Hill |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:22 am |
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OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in
news:7k9d145u2fvlk2e8rjbtmcr41fbudd80u3@4ax.com:
Quote: On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:52 -0500, Damon Hill
damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
...This makes sense, as the primer used on a lot of nautical items is
the same type. It does beg the next question as to whether or not the
red/white painting most gantry structures in the early days used was
also of a similar composition to provide the same service.
Might have started out as red and white lead paint, the idea being to
stand out to aircraft.
Well, from what I've seen of the salt haze down there, some daze it's
so thick that everything more than a few miles away turns the same
greyscale and blends together. Besides, I'm pretty sure lead paint
got banned decades ago; seems like even nitrocelluose aircraft paint
won't stand up to that and heavy UV for more than a decade. So, I
dunno what they'd be using now but it seems like you neglect that
stuff for too many years and it all starts to corrode dangerously,
hot-dipped zinc galvanizing or not... Maybe they're using some sort
of thick coat polyurethane or suchlike? There are conversion
coatings that are supposed to bond to corrosion and neutralize it.
Don't get me started on the buzzard droppings. Nasty stuff.
We need a local who actually works onsite; too bad Kim Keller's
moved on. I saw the 'milkstool' up close back in the 70's, but all
I remember it was a thickish grey paint.
--Damon |
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| OM |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:50 am |
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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:22:18 -0500, Damon Hill
<damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Quote: Well, from what I've seen of the salt haze down there, some daze it's
so thick that everything more than a few miles away turns the same
greyscale and blends together.
....The Texas Gulf Coast can be just as bad if the conditions are just
right. Last time Dim and I went down there to see the Confederate Air
Force Museum, it was bright and sunny overhead, but if you looked out
Gulfward, visibility was about two miles before everything disappeared
in a thick grey haze. And this was just before noontime, too, and the
salt was thicker in the air than I can recall. Which, for once, helped
mask the stench of seagull droppings that usually permeates the air to
halfway intolerable levels.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[ |
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| Bob the Tomato |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:23 am |
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Guest
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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:22:18 -0500, Damon Hill
<damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Quote: OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in
news:7k9d145u2fvlk2e8rjbtmcr41fbudd80u3@4ax.com:
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:52 -0500, Damon Hill
damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
...This makes sense, as the primer used on a lot of nautical items is
the same type. It does beg the next question as to whether or not the
red/white painting most gantry structures in the early days used was
also of a similar composition to provide the same service.
Might have started out as red and white lead paint, the idea being to
stand out to aircraft.
Well, from what I've seen of the salt haze down there, some daze it's
so thick that everything more than a few miles away turns the same
greyscale and blends together. Besides, I'm pretty sure lead paint
got banned decades ago; seems like even nitrocelluose aircraft paint
won't stand up to that and heavy UV for more than a decade. So, I
dunno what they'd be using now but it seems like you neglect that
stuff for too many years and it all starts to corrode dangerously,
hot-dipped zinc galvanizing or not... Maybe they're using some sort
of thick coat polyurethane or suchlike? There are conversion
coatings that are supposed to bond to corrosion and neutralize it.
Don't get me started on the buzzard droppings. Nasty stuff.
We need a local who actually works onsite; too bad Kim Keller's
moved on. I saw the 'milkstool' up close back in the 70's, but all
I remember it was a thickish grey paint.
The gantry structures are definitely not painted the same as regular
broadcast towers. They are pretty picky about the color and the
stripes. Anything over 200' tall is supposed to be registered,
lighted with beacons/strobes, and painted in seven equal bands of
Aviation Orange / Aviation White (starting and ending in Orange).
It's definitely not the "rust" color that you see in the old Apollo
pad shots. Aviation Orange is quite striking when it's fresh... and
they are picky about how faded it can get before it needs to be
repainted. Since this is a government project, within restricted
airspace, I suspect that they didn't have to comply with the same
rules that everyone else does.
I suspect they picked the right paint for the job. It would need to
be durable, fireproof, corrosion resistant due to the marine
environment, and relatively low maintenance. Probably had lead in it,
at the time.
The yellow paint inside the Saturn stages (oddly enough, I've noticed
that myself) was probably picked for corrosion resistance, no flame
spread, and relatively low mass. They may not have been fussy about
that last one, though. And no cost was too high... just make it
perfect and make it fast. My guess is one of the earlier named zinc
chromates or something similar.
--
Bob the Tomato |
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| Alan Erskine |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:24 am |
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"OM" <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in message
news:7k9d145u2fvlk2e8rjbtmcr41fbudd80u3@4ax.com...
Quote: On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:52 -0500, Damon Hill
damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
...This makes sense, as the primer used on a lot of nautical items is
the same type. It does beg the next question as to whether or not the
red/white painting most gantry structures in the early days used was
also of a similar composition to provide the same service.
No; that would have been protected by 'red lead' first, then painted. |
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| John |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:00 am |
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On Apr 29, 4:24 am, "Alan Erskine" <alan.ersk...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Quote: "OM" <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote in message
news:7k9d145u2fvlk2e8rjbtmcr41fbudd80u3@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:52 -0500, Damon Hill
damon1S...@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
...This makes sense, as the primer used on a lot of nautical items is
the same type. It does beg the next question as to whether or not the
red/white painting most gantry structures in the early days used was
also of a similar composition to provide the same service.
No; that would have been protected by 'red lead' first, then painted.
The following is a guess . . . not even a SWAG . . . I wonder if
weight of the resultant protective layer (lead paint vs zinc chromate)
could be part of the answer. I have seen a lot of zinc chromate used
on aircraft, but not other places where weight is not as much of a
consideration.
Take care . . .
John |
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| Derek Lyons |
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:07 am |
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OM <om@all_trolls_must_DIE.com> wrote:
Quote: On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:20:52 -0500, Damon Hill
damon1SIX1@comcast.netnet> wrote:
Yellow chromate primer to prevent corrosion of the aluminum?
...This makes sense, as the primer used on a lot of nautical items is
the same type. It does beg the next question as to whether or not the
red/white painting most gantry structures in the early days used was
also of a similar composition to provide the same service.
Nautical items typically paint over the primer - I suspect the
gantries did the same. For that matter, you don't really need
corrosion inhibiting primer if you have a good coat of good paint.
The trick is maintaining the paint, because once corrosion starts it
is a stone cold bitch to stop. Which is the real reason for using a
corrosion inhibitor - belt and suspenders.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
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