humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:24:01 -0700, turtoni wrote:

humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin.

therefore it is, as described here, another dogma feeding upon that which
it rejects.

turtoni:

*HTH any nuts in alt.atheism
(*hope that helps)

The true nutcases, sadly, will not take in your information. They "already
know" that opposition to their dogma, of whatever kind, is without
exception from saaataaan(TM).

Therefore they will "know exactly" that you
are lying to them to make them doubt their bullshit, err, faith.
But at least you can say you tried

"Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the
dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine
right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly
rationality.[1][2] It is a component of a variety of more specific
philosophical systems and is incorporated into several religious
schools of thought. Humanism entails a commitment to the search for
truth and morality through human means in support of human interests.
In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality
of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and
cultural problems cannot be parochial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

*HTH any nuts in alt.atheism

(*hope that helps)

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:24:01 -0700, turtoni wrote:

humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin.

therefore it is, as described here, another dogma feeding upon that which
it rejects.

"turtoni" <turt...@fastmail.net> wrote in message

news:860c77cf-edce-48a7-8395-d63a37ca0df4@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
"Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the
dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine
right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly
rationality.[1][2] It is a component of a variety of more specific
philosophical systems and is incorporated into several religious
schools of thought. Humanism entails a commitment to the search for
truth and morality through human means in support of human interests.
In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality
of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and
cultural problems cannot be parochial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

Problems with Humanism.  First, it gives no justification for altruistic
behavior.  If we are to be rational, then we look to 'self interest'.  In
that 'self interest', a great many antisocial behaviors can be justified.
To understand this, look to how top execs for a corporation 'must' think.
Corporations are 'legal entities', but have no 'moral' base, and act without
human moral code, in that ownership is spread over many individuals who need
to see profit [the only justification for reasoning].  Oh, corporations may
act nobably, but only for sake of public relations, which again is justified
on the bottom line of profit to the company.  Humanism has no higher plateau
from which it can gain any moral code beyond 'selfishness'.  But,
fortunately, it borrows from centuries of evolved empathetic reach that has
been developed through a reach for God.

Second, it is based upon a shallow understanding of human nature.  Freud
defined an upper stage of mental reasoning called the 'super ego' that is
based upon the 'rightness' or the 'wrongness' of situations.  Humanism
invalidates this part of our reasoning, leaving us at our 'egotistical'
basis at best, which is the 'rational' mode, where we 'calculate'.  Thusly,
we do not steal under humanism, not because it is 'wrong', but because we
might get caught and go to jail.  There is no system of law that can be
devised that will cover all aspects of human behavior 24/7, and indeed, the
only reason it works to begin with is that a population exists with some
moral platitude about right and wrong.

Third, humanism and science is totally material in scope.  Materialism
reduces us to superficiality, where beauty is inspired by the 'looks' of a
person rather than their virtue for example, or how much wealth one
accumulates and not their character or even how they obtained the wealth
[drug dealers will be treated with as more respect than priests in a
materialistic society, as long they have the money to pay] etc.  It leads to
decadence and prurient behaviors and gives no higher value for the bottom
teirs of the populations to strive toward.  Essentially, materialism
destroys the human spirit [by it's very definition in fact].

Finally, HOPE.  Humans are intelligent creatures that can extrapolate base
premise to a wide range of conclusions.  Humanism has no object upon which
HOPE itself can be justified, and indeed, as science [it's basic rationale]
can only base existence upon 'survival', humanism cannot give us any other
reason to survive except that.  HOPE dwindles under humanism in time,
leaving people essentially with only FEAR of death to sustain them.  .

This is all just off the cuff...and of course, IMHO, which not scholarly.  A
scholar would logically be able to trash humanism with much greater aplomb..
Humans mean well, but we are all selfish creatures, highly intelligent, who
can rationalize our way to just about any behavior imaginable.  Without a
SELF MAINTAINED system of constraint, I'm afraid we unleash an animal
capable of much power to create 'less than redemtpive' experience to justify
the continuation of itself.

Question:  How can humanism provide justification to individuals to maintain
this 'self maintained' system of constraint?  We are talking about
conscience here.  In private moments, where does the individual gain their
'object' of rationale that they 'serve' the human community when it means
SELF being made subservient to anything?  Again, without a super ego, but
only a calculating ego with which to reason?

There's more.

turtoni:

*HTH any nuts in alt.atheism
(*hope that helps)

The true nutcases, sadly, will not take in your information. They "already
know" that opposition to their dogma, of whatever kind, is without
exception from saaataaan(TM). Therefore they will "know exactly" that you
are lying to them to make them doubt their bullshit, err, faith.
But at least you can say you tried

--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...

My personal judgment of monotheism:http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:24:01 -0700, turtoni wrote:
humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin.

therefore it is, as described here, another dogma feeding upon that which
it rejects.

"turtoni" <turt...@fastmail.net> wrote in message

news:860c77cf-edce-48a7-8395-d63a37ca0df4@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
"Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the
dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine
right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly
rationality.[1][2] It is a component of a variety of more specific
philosophical systems and is incorporated into several religious
schools of thought. Humanism entails a commitment to the search for
truth and morality through human means in support of human interests.
In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality
of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and
cultural problems cannot be parochial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

*HTH any nuts in alt.atheism

(*hope that helps)

#  Vanity of vanities, all is vanity, and self-glorification by us Humans
adds to the sum total.
   Due to the many crimes committed by the Mad Ape, as compared with our
Animal Relatives, even the tiger and the shark, I think I prefer the term -
Beastyism, or even Bestiality.  Cuts out the cant and hypocrisy.

"turtoni" <turt...@fastmail.net> wrote in message

news:860c77cf-edce-48a7-8395-d63a37ca0df4@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
"Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the
dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine
right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly
rationality.[1][2] It is a component of a variety of more specific
philosophical systems and is incorporated into several religious
schools of thought. Humanism entails a commitment to the search for
truth and morality through human means in support of human interests.
In focusing on the capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects
the validity of transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on
belief without reason, the supernatural, or texts of allegedly divine
origin. Humanists endorse universal morality based on the commonality
of the human condition, suggesting that solutions to human social and
cultural problems cannot be parochial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

*HTH any nuts in alt.atheism

(*hope that helps)

*************************************

Here's a question for ya - Did you have some point and forget to put it in
the post, or are you merely practicing your copy/paste technique?

plonk> yet another fucking moron.

You're full of crap, cretin. We know better than you, ignorant one.