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Science Forum Index » Physics Forum » where do you get solar panels from?
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Message |
| harmony |
 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:24 am |
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Guest
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i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with obama's
pastor. |
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| Androcles |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:45 am |
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Guest
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This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4815ec44$0$4040$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
|i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
| bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed
companies
| of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy
to
| even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
| mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins
| in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
|
| i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
| sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
| candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i have
| not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with obama's
| pastor.
Show them the number on your credit card, phone calls are for gossiping.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=solar+panels&meta=
3,480,000 hits.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=wind+power&meta=
9,520,000 hits
Do what Jay Leno did. Go to a local contractor and leave it to them.
You surely don't think he installed it himself, do you? |
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| Benj |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:45 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 28, 1:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
Exactly.
Both PV solar and 'windmills' are the very worst kind of energy tokenism. Neither
are very sensible uses of money.
You've all hit the nail right on the head! "Harmony" [who usually
posts ignorant feel-good liberal "solutions" to dire world problems in
other groups"] only wants to feel good by putting on a show. It makes
no difference if the act actually has the opposite result from that
purported. To a liberal, "quantity" is something totally beyond
comprehension. They scream "if only ONE life is saved" while trying
to implement genocide conditions for the deaths of millions! They
"feel good" about burning food to run their car, while failing to
notice that it takes more oil to generate a gallon of alcohol than if
you just burned the oil in your car! In a word, stupid PR stuff.
Myself I love green. No, not because I'm a liberal and want to show
off how much I "care" to others, but because I'm one cheap-ass son of
a bitch! I changed all my light bulbs to curlicue types and literally
cut my electric bill in HALF! [See "harmony"? That lets you say you
cut your electric "carbon footprint" in half]. I bought a solar panel
with an inverter for Y2K and soon discovered the truth. PV panels are
GREAT if you want to power some small electronic device away from the
power grid. But for practical house power, forget it! And even worse
the lifetime of lead-acid batteries when charged by solar panels is
amazingly short. Plus they are expensive, plus they are heavy, plus
they are LEAD and ACID! Not too green or cheap there!
And what is this with Liberals and the leftist love of "light rail"?
Our democrat mayor wants to spend $200 million for STREETCARS to move
our city back into the 19th century! HE wants to build a rail line
across the state (just like was there in the 19th century) even though
it was shown unworkable as soon as the automobile was invented! And
windmills are totally GREAT for pumping water for cows in the 19th
century as well! My grandparent's farm had a nice cow windmill (before
rural electrification arrived).
For a half way decent use of money, solar water heaters seem to be a
decent investment in most climates. And there are a lot of other
things a person can do to "save the planet". Selling the SUV and
buying a Honda would be a good start! My car is a GM Geo metro. 53mpg
(true) on the highway. Naturally it isn't made any more and except for
a "hybrid" you can buy anything close to that from GM or anybody else!
Yet everybody PRETENDS there is no "technology" developed yet! Then
just what in HELL am I driving around? And my cheap ass LOVES IT! Hey
you ignorant executives at General Motors, before Toyota puts you
totally out of business how about you just start building the
"classic" metro again? OR better yet build the body out of carbon
fiber and REALLY go for some mileage!
Don't let "harmony' fool you. The idea is to only APPEAR to "care"
about green issues, while really doing token things that actually
UNDERMINE real efforts to improve a bad situation. Harmony is a
destroyer not a builder. Harmony wants you to think it cares, but in
reality it is trying to set policies that will only pull us all down
faster. You'd think that Harmony doesn't live on the same planet the
rest of us do!
"Harmony", how about you take time to grow a brain before you open
your ignorant yap in this physics group?
[This anti-"harmony" rant brought to you courtesy of
talk.politics.guns] |
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| Benj |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:56 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 28, 11:24 am, "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"where do you get solar panels from?"
Well, "Harmony", when a mommy solar panel and a daddy solar panel love
each other very much.... |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:15 pm |
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In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
You do realize there is a lot more to it than just throwing a panel
on your roof?
In any case, you might start with:
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_solar_links.htm
Google is your friend.
Quote: i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with obama's
pastor.
Obviously not or there would be no need for subsidies to entice people
into doing it.
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:39 pm |
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Guest
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harmony wrote:
Quote: i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
Have you actually looked athe ECONOMICS of either of thees ?
You will be far greener and far wealthier if you concentrate on INSULATING your
home to a high standard (such as 12 inches of rockwool) before wasting money on
high cost tokenism no matter how politically correct they may seem.
Graham |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:42 pm |
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Guest
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jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Quote: harmony wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
<snip>
Quote: The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
Exactly.
Both PV solar and 'windmills' are the very worst kind of energy tokenism. Neither
are very sensible uses of money.
Graham |
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| Paul Mays |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:37 pm |
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Guest
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<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:mqche5-oca.ln1@mail.specsol.com...
Quote: In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in
texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed
companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too
busy to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
You do realize there is a lot more to it than just throwing a panel
on your roof?
In any case, you might start with:
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_solar_links.htm
Google is your friend.
And keep in mind that if you wana stick a rook full of glass on your
house you better buy large shatter proof plastic covers as the local
kid with a baseball could mess up your whole day. A good hail
storm your whole week. You then have to worry about the battery
plant having to be replaced and disposal of the nasty stuff they are
made of. Then there's that pesky inverter that requires maintenance
and repairs on a regular basis. While you might save enough to
pay for the initial install in about 5 to 10 years it will take more like
30 years to recoup the cost of all the ongoing upkeep required.
And since global warming is a scam and we have enough energy
reserves to supply the U.S. for the next 500 years I just don't
see the point myself, but have at it....
--
http://fast.filespace.org/PaulRMays/Postulate.pdf
--
Paul R. Mays
"I Believe in Nothing, I Know, I think I Know or I Do Not Know
I Never Believe... For to Believe is a Religious Incantation"
Quote:
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i
have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with
obama's
pastor.
Obviously not or there would be no need for subsidies to entice people
into doing it.
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Tom |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:54 pm |
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Guest
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VAWT turbines are shit. Jay leno can spend money and think it's cool.
If I were you I would get a written guarantee of the absurd claims of
VAWT"S.
If they have a problem then ask them why the websites states such high power
output.
Lastley if you are installing solar panels to get a return you can forget
about that.
If you just want to look green go ahead and buy them. Wind is the best
choice
at $1:00 per watt. Even after tax credits you will not get your money back.
Pv is a good choice if you have no wind and are off grid and need power.
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4815ec44$0$4040$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
Quote: i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy
to even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with obama's
pastor.
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| Back to top |
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| harmony |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:18 pm |
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Guest
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<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:mqche5-oca.ln1@mail.specsol.com...
Quote: In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in
texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed
companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy
to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
You do realize there is a lot more to it than just throwing a panel
on your roof?
In any case, you might start with:
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_solar_links.htm
Google is your friend.
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i
have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with obama's
pastor.
Obviously not or there would be no need for subsidies to entice people
into doing it.
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
--
Jim Pennino
thank you jim very very much.
i contacted a few vendors from the site you provided. learned a few things.
one of them was pretty blunt with the payback thing.
according to him, the payback would be 10 years (should the state govt help)
to 15 years (if the state does not). the fed gives you 30pct of investment
back in the form of tax credits.
however, he was big on solar hot water heating where he estimated the
payback to be 3 to 5 years since it is not Pv thing but some other
technology. he claims it will be near worry-free, zero maintenance 15 year
operation. (i had a bad cell phone connection while i was driving, i could
not understand the technology he was explaining that does this solar
heating). i will post here again when i know it later.
thanks again.
> Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:45 pm |
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In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:mqche5-oca.ln1@mail.specsol.com...
In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in
texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed
companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too busy
to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
You do realize there is a lot more to it than just throwing a panel
on your roof?
In any case, you might start with:
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_solar_links.htm
Google is your friend.
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i
have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with obama's
pastor.
Obviously not or there would be no need for subsidies to entice people
into doing it.
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
--
Jim Pennino
thank you jim very very much.
i contacted a few vendors from the site you provided. learned a few things.
one of them was pretty blunt with the payback thing.
according to him, the payback would be 10 years (should the state govt help)
to 15 years (if the state does not). the fed gives you 30pct of investment
back in the form of tax credits.
however, he was big on solar hot water heating where he estimated the
payback to be 3 to 5 years since it is not Pv thing but some other
technology. he claims it will be near worry-free, zero maintenance 15 year
operation. (i had a bad cell phone connection while i was driving, i could
not understand the technology he was explaining that does this solar
heating). i will post here again when i know it later.
thanks again.
The technology used is called plumbing layed out in the sun.
In the simplest systems it is just a bunch of blackened pipe under a
plastic cover in series with the hot water heater input to preheat the
water.
In the more complex systems there are pumps, valves, and holding tanks.
If it is zero maintenance, it is just pipes.
These things don't pay back for crap either unless you have a large
family with a bunch of kids, all taking lots of baths with lots of
laundry and dishes to do.
You get better payback by going to the home improvement store and buying
an insulated blanket for your water heater unless you use LOTS of hot
water.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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| Eeyore |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:13 pm |
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Guest
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jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Quote: In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in
texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed
companies of california with good product reviews in the business are just
too busy
to even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
You do realize there is a lot more to it than just throwing a panel
on your roof?
In any case, you might start with:
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_solar_links.htm
Google is your friend.
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i
have not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with
obama's
pastor.
Obviously not or there would be no need for subsidies to entice people
into doing it.
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
thank you jim very very much.
i contacted a few vendors from the site you provided. learned a few things.
one of them was pretty blunt with the payback thing.
according to him, the payback would be 10 years (should the state govt help)
to 15 years (if the state does not). the fed gives you 30pct of investment
back in the form of tax credits.
however, he was big on solar hot water heating where he estimated the
payback to be 3 to 5 years since it is not Pv thing but some other
technology. he claims it will be near worry-free, zero maintenance 15 year
operation. (i had a bad cell phone connection while i was driving, i could
not understand the technology he was explaining that does this solar
heating). i will post here again when i know it later.
thanks again.
The technology used is called plumbing layed out in the sun.
In the simplest systems it is just a bunch of blackened pipe under a
plastic cover in series with the hot water heater input to preheat the
water.
That's about what it boils down to !
Quote: In the more complex systems there are pumps, valves, and holding tanks.
If it is zero maintenance, it is just pipes.
These things don't pay back for crap either unless you have a large
family with a bunch of kids, all taking lots of baths with lots of
laundry and dishes to do.
You get better payback by going to the home improvement store and buying
an insulated blanket for your water heater unless you use LOTS of hot
water.
In the same way that choosing a house is supposed to be about 'location, location,
location' the mantra for energy efficiency and being 'green' ought to be
'insulation, insulation, insulation' ! It is invariably the very best thing one
can do to reduce one's energy usage impact.
I am forver amazed that people here in the UK think they have enought loft (attic)
insulation when they only have 4 inches of glassfibre mat ! Current thinking
suggesta you should have at least TEN inches which means sensible practice would
be to install a foot thickness of the stuff and it's SO CHEAP !
Then think about reducing draughts, fitting better glazing and adding insulation
to outside walls.
Graham |
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| zzbunker@netscape.net |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:02 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 28, 1:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
harmony wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in texas.
snip
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
Exactly.
Both PV solar and 'windmills' are the very worst kind of energy tokenism. Neither
are very sensible uses of money.
They why PV Cells were even built. Since they work
nest in computers, lasers, robots, satellites, and supermarkets,
rather than with morons like sci,physics and sci,energy.
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| zzbunker@netscape.net |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:11 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 29, 10:30 am, "Paul Mays" <Pa...@Mays.com> wrote:
Quote: zzbun...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:935f76f4-520a-418b-8b49-e204b1eaeca7@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 28, 1:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com
wrote:
j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
harmony wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in
texas.
snip
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
Exactly.
Both PV solar and 'windmills' are the very worst kind of energy tokenism..
Neither
are very sensible uses of money.
They why PV Cells were even built. Since they work
nest in computers, lasers, robots, satellites, and supermarkets,
rather than with morons like sci,physics and sci,energy.
Again you can stick em on ya house.. buy a batt bank, inverter,
controlers and the like ifn ys want, They work just fine... But will
Never, Never pay for them selves and do nothing to help with
gloBull warming, energy reduction or any of the reasons people think
they will help with..
*Nothing* ever pays for itself. That's the A.I. micro-computers,
holograms, fiber optics, lasers, networks, satellites, bio-energy,
DVD, and robots are used in conjuction with PV cells Since the PV
Cells
are a means to a means for you sci.energy idiots, not a means to
an
end.
Quote:
Graham
--http://fast.filespace.org/PaulRMays/Postulate.pdf
--
Paul R. Mays
"I Believe in Nothing, I Know, I think I Know or I Do Not Know
I Never Believe... For to Believe is a Religious Incantation" |
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| Tom |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:18 am |
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Guest
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10 years? That's just false. I ran the numbers. If you take a loan out over
30 years it's a net loss. If you pay cash you might get a return in 15 but
that is not counting on a failure.
If you have to replace the grid tie inverter that can set you back 5k.
That's another 4 or 5 year set back. You should also be aware that a 5K W
PV system will only reduce
your power bill by 20% at best. I calculated a 20kw system would reduce your
bill about 85% however that comes at a cost of 70k for that system. These
panels need to come down to 3 dollars per watt to look atractive. They are
currently around $6 or $7
per watt. I am not trying to discurage you but just remeber that the people
selling these
are not going to be 100% honest. other wise they would not be selling them.
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4816776b$0$4078$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
Quote:
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:mqche5-oca.ln1@mail.specsol.com...
In sci.physics harmony <aka@hotmail.com> wrote:
i sure would like to install solar panels for powering the house in
texas.
bu ti can't find anybody to supply solar panels. all these listed
companies
of california with good product reviews in the business are just too
busy to
even return phone calls much less provide a quote. it is same with wind
mills. i sure would like the windmill that jay leno has installed - it
spins
in horizontal plane instead of the customary vertical.
You do realize there is a lot more to it than just throwing a panel
on your roof?
In any case, you might start with:
http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_solar_links.htm
Google is your friend.
i am still not sure whether economics justify these alternative energy
sources (after accounting for tax credits etc). are the presidential
candidates even aware of the economics of alternate energy? if yes, i
have
not yet seen it on any debates. it seems they are still done with
obama's
pastor.
Obviously not or there would be no need for subsidies to entice people
into doing it.
The only justification for people with access to the electric grid
is a warm feeling that they are doing something to "save the planet".
--
Jim Pennino
thank you jim very very much.
i contacted a few vendors from the site you provided. learned a few
things. one of them was pretty blunt with the payback thing.
according to him, the payback would be 10 years (should the state govt
help) to 15 years (if the state does not). the fed gives you 30pct of
investment back in the form of tax credits.
however, he was big on solar hot water heating where he estimated the
payback to be 3 to 5 years since it is not Pv thing but some other
technology. he claims it will be near worry-free, zero maintenance 15 year
operation. (i had a bad cell phone connection while i was driving, i could
not understand the technology he was explaining that does this solar
heating). i will post here again when i know it later.
thanks again.
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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