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Richo
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:49 am
Guest
On Apr 28, 6:36 am, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
Quote:
Sanny wrote:

When Sun and Earth are attracting each other why do Earth not fall on
Sun.

[snip rest of crap]

It does, continuously. It keeps missing.


Exactly!

Its like the secret to flying:
Throw yourself to the ground .... and miss.

Mark.
Jeffâ–²Relf
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:14 pm
Guest
If the earth's orbit around the sun happened to be slightly higher
it'd be Spiraling Away From the sun ( a bit more each year );
conversely, it'd be spiraling Into the sun.

What are the chances that it'd be doing neither ?
It simply can't be Perfectly balanced.
John Jones
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:31 pm
Joined: 26 Oct 2004 Posts: 4263
Sanny wrote:
Quote:
When Sun and Earth are attracting each other why do Earth not fall on
Sun.


When we throw a big Stone in air It will Fall Back on Earth.
Simmilarly For Sun Earth is just a piece of Rock? Who do this big rock
Earth Fall onto the Sun Just like the Stones which we throw in air
just come back and hit the Earth?

Simmilarly why not the Moon fall on Earth by the Gravity attration?

Why are the planets revolving round the sun for so many years instead
of just falling onto the Sun?

When we visit Moon on a Rocket Our Rocket Just Falls on Surface of
moon So why these heavenly bodies not falling on Bigger one?

Bye
Sanny

Extreme Discussions at: http://www.getclub.com/Discussion.php
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:39 pm
Guest
I think Newton figured that out, Sanny. Look him up!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:53:37 -0700 (PDT), Sanny
<softtanks@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
When Sun and Earth are attracting each other why do Earth not fall on
Sun.


When we throw a big Stone in air It will Fall Back on Earth.
Simmilarly For Sun Earth is just a piece of Rock? Who do this big rock
Earth Fall onto the Sun Just like the Stones which we throw in air
just come back and hit the Earth?

Simmilarly why not the Moon fall on Earth by the Gravity attration?

Why are the planets revolving round the sun for so many years instead
of just falling onto the Sun?

When we visit Moon on a Rocket Our Rocket Just Falls on Surface of
moon So why these heavenly bodies not falling on Bigger one?

Bye
Sanny
Michael Moroney
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:56 pm
Guest
Quote:
Oops, I meant to write ? faster ?, not ? higher ?:
? If the earth's orbit around the sun happened to be slightly faster

it'd be Spiraling Away From the sun ( a bit more each year );
conversely, it'd be spiraling Into the sun. ?

Nope. You'd just get a different orbit. Once it gets into a particular
orbit, and no external forces or effects like tides act on it, it'll
stay in the orbit forever.

Thought experiment: Assume a rocket in a perfectly circular orbit around a
planet. The rocket fires momentarily to increase its velocity in the
direction of its motion. What happens? Assuming we don't reach escape
velocity, the rocket will still curve toward the planet but less so than
before. Its velocity will slow as it gets further from the planet (its
potential energy increases, decreasing its kinetic energy) until it
reaches a more distant point, when it stops getting further and starts
"falling" back. It will follow a path to the point where the rocket
fired. At this point it will repeat the path. Plot it and you'll have an
ellipse rather than the original circle.

NASA worked all this out years ago. It also shows a strange contradiction
of orbital mechanics: Try to speed up and you'll slow down (you'll orbit
with a longer period, further from the planet). Conversely, try to slow
down, and (assuming you don't hit the planet) you'll speed up by orbiting
closer and more often.

Spiralling away from the sun (or toward it) would violate conservation
of energy.

There is no need to be "perfectly balanced" other than perfect conditions
necessary to have a perfectly circular orbit. In real life, every bound
orbit is an ellipse, even if it's very nearly a circle.
Jeffâ–²Relf
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:27 pm
Guest
As you noted, I was wrong,
an orbit stays the same so long as it's below the escape velocity
and away from forces like spinning tides, atmospheric drag, etc.
Jeffâ–²Relf
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:33 pm
Guest
The Sag A* thing was a pure guess;
but, one way or another, the Milky Way is dynamic.

I already admitted I was wrong about:
sub-escape-velocity orbits sans drag, spinning tides, etc.
Richard Henry
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:18 pm
Guest
On Apr 27, 12:53 am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
When Sun and Earth are attracting each other why do Earth not fall on
Sun.

When we throw a big Stone in air It will Fall Back on Earth.
Simmilarly For Sun Earth is just a piece of Rock? Who do this big rock
Earth Fall onto the Sun Just like the Stones which we throw in air
just come back and hit the Earth?

Simmilarly why not the Moon fall on Earth by the Gravity attration?

Why are the planets revolving round the sun for so many years instead
of just falling onto the Sun?

When we visit Moon on a Rocket Our Rocket Just Falls on Surface of
moon So why these heavenly bodies not falling on Bigger one?

Bye
Sanny

Extreme Discussions at:http://www.getclub.com/Discussion.php

Actually, it does, but the sun keeps moving out of the way.
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:50 pm
Guest
Nice description, Androcles!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:53:10 +0100, "Androcles"
<Headmaster@Hogwarts.physics> wrote:

Quote:
This message is brought to you by Androcles
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

"Sanny" <softtanks@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:91fc07f0-5c11-4056-a817-bbb10ff28f61@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
| When Sun and Earth are attracting each other why do Earth not fall on
| Sun.
|
|
| When we throw a big Stone in air It will Fall Back on Earth.

If you throw it straight up it comes straight back down and hits
you on the head, so you'd better step out of the way.
If you throw it up and forwards, it still comes down but hits
someone else on the head. You don't need to step out of the way.
If you throw it really hard it goes a long way and hits someone
else on the head, but they are so far away over the horizon
you don't see it happen; but you need a big gun to do that.
If you throw it really, REALLY hard it goes way over the
horizon and falls, but the Earth curves beneath it and it misses
the head of the person on the other side of the Earth, carries on
around the Earth until it hits you on the head from behind, so
you'd better step out of the way. You have about 90 minutes
to move if you can throw it at 17,000 mph, which is really,
really hard to do - unless you have a really big, big rocket.
If you have a really, really, big, big rocket that can change
the flight path at the highest point it will still fall around
the curve of the Earth but never get any closer and you
need not move out of the way. Here is a picture of a
really, really, big, big rocket.
http://shodan.co.za/images/shuttle_big.jpg
Here it is falling on someone's head:
http://shuttle.columbia.inreview.com/shuttle.jpg
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:52 pm
Guest
Don't confuse the boy, Meenken! lmao!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:26:19 +0200, "Meenken" <mdmeenken@hetnet.nl>
wrote:

Quote:
there is atlas you know,

and he takes care of al that,he has the whole earth on his shoulders,

did you know that??

I am not sure whether atlas does that ,or god, anyway somebody must be
doing it ,

otherwise we would fall ,would'nt we????

believe it or not,

all true!!!

there are/were also some people like einstein ,

who say that mass dictates space how to curve, and space in his turn
dictates mass how to move,but what kind of bullshit that is ,I don't
know,but that cannot be true can it???

greetings marten
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:56 pm
Guest
As long as Sanny's careful NOT to read anything from the WartPiggies!
lmfjao!

They believe there aren't any man-made satellites. lmao!

Seems lots of people need to read those books. Too bad the
WartPiggies are SUCH STUPID, UNEDUCATED MORONS that they would never
UNDERSTAND any of them, yet alone BELIEVE them. lmao!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:07:54 -0700 (PDT), Mike <eleatis@yahoo.gr>
wrote:

Quote:
On Apr 27, 3:53 am, Sanny <softta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
When Sun and Earth are attracting each other why do Earth not fall on
Sun.

When we throw a big Stone in air It will Fall Back on Earth.
[snip]

Newton first, and later others like Einstein, presented models that
unified the two phenomena you mentioned, orbits and free fall.
Actually, a free fall is an trajectory that falls short of becoming an
orbit because there is not enough mechanical energy to keep it that
way.

If you give a high enough velocity to the rock in the right direction
and you lete it free, and thus is has the right Kinetic Energy to
balance the Potential Energy, it will go into a orbit around earth.
This is what satellites accomplish after gettign escape velocity.

I think you question is so elementary that shows you did not study
introductory physics in neither high school or college level.

No proble, as long as you agree to open a book and study. Any book
Physics 101 will do it.

Mike
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:57 pm
Guest
Maybe Sanny has heard of Newton, Bob. It's for sure the WartPiggies
haven't! lmfjao!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:52:20 -0400, "Robert J. Kolker"
<bobkolker@comcast.net> wrote:

Quote:
Sanny wrote:




When we throw a big Stone in air It will Fall Back on Earth.
Simmilarly For Sun Earth is just a piece of Rock? Who do this big rock
Earth Fall onto the Sun Just like the Stones which we throw in air
just come back and hit the Earth?

If your big rock had a tangential speed of over 18,000 miles an hour it
would not fall to earth. Consiser all those satillites in low orbit.
They are big rocks thrown by rockets.

In -Pricipia- Newton drew a diagram showing how a cannon could launch a
cannon ball that would orbit the earth without falling back to the
ground. (of course he ignored air friction to make the point).

For Sanny, it was as though Isaac Newton had never lived.

Bob Kolker
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:03 pm
Guest
WartPiggy wrote that, didn't he? lmfjao!

It sure looks like something he'd believe in! lmao!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:50:54 -0700 (PDT), dedanoe <dedanoe@gmail.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Earth was created first by TOJ TAA-TO A = he.d.holy.she.it E.Art.|=|
is art of Capitol A. When time came to eliminate the evil from earth
The Holly six titan.titana, gad.goddess and devil.satana putted all
them evil guys on spaceshutle loaded with dedanoe's timed armageddon
bomb and they sent them in dip space nine. the bomb went ka-boom and
so bhsun was created. the bhsun doesn't fall on earth because it was
designed to be self-carried lika tao=yinUyang. ever since that bhsun
supports life on eart|=| in replacement of the diesel energy of the
dead. hope you're happy with this answer
Saul Levy
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:12 pm
Guest
When are you leaving, BEERTbrain? lmao!

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:54:59 -0400, herbertglazier@webtv.net (G=EMC^2
Glazier) wrote:

Quote:
Its less energy for the Earth to fall into the Oort belt,than for the
Sun's gravity to have it fALL IN TO IT. gO FIUGURE Bert
Mark Earnest
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:46 pm
Guest
"Richo" <m.richardson61@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f05a1961-d338-4635-9f3c-5d39d261bf03@f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
On Apr 29, 10:54 am, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Richo" <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a6e91e59-7622-4f1b-b262-a5725bcded36@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...



On Apr 28, 1:15 pm, "Mark Earnest" <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Sam Wormley" <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote in message

news:jdaRj.139437$yE1.67749@attbi_s21...

Mark Earnest wrote:
The Earth does not fall into the Sun because it is constantly
accelerating
at a right angle to the Sun.

Whoops! The force (gravity) is directed toward the sun and hence
the
acceleration is directed toward the sun.

Whoops yourself. If the acceleration was all toward the Sun, the
planet
would fall into the Sun, just as the OP perceives.

The Earth does fall towards the center of the sun - continuously.
It has been falling towards the center of the sun for 4.5 billion
years now.
It never gets any closer because of its tangential velocity - earths
momentum wants to move the earth in a straight line - the acceleration
of gravity pulls it off course constantly and makes the earth move in
a circle (an ellipse really but lets keep it simple).
If gods hand reached down and stopped the earths motion - and then let
go the earth would slowly move towards the center of the sun getting
faster and faster - if gods hand reached down and gave the earth a
sideways push - it would fall into orbit.
The orbit is the place where the tangential motion is exactly balanced
by the inward acceleration.

It is the right angel acceleration that keeps the planet from falling
into
the Sun.

Not acceleration - constant speed - momentum.

It has to be acceleration, otherwise there is no ballance for the
accelerating force of gravity from the Sun.

The suns gravity pulls the earth towards it - what pulls the earth
"sideways"?

Same sort of thing that is pulling you down at this very moment.
An unexplained force.



Quote:
There is no such force - there is momentum and there is the force of
gravity.
Together they guarantee that the planets orbit in an ellipse.

Satelites orbit the earth without having to constantly fire their
rockets.
If they do fire their rockets to increase their tangential velocity
they go into a higher orbit.

If something pushed the earth sideways it would move into a higher
orbit.
If something retarded its sideways motion it would fall to a lower
orbit.
If there is Zero sideways acceleration - it will orbit at the same
distance from the Sun forever.

Any change in velocity is an acceleration - if you draw the vectors
the *change* in velocity is directed towards the center of the circle.
the *change* in velocity in the tangential direction is zero, none.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal_force


If God's hand really were in this--and it could be--and he mysteriously
somehow made the Sun wink out of existence, The Earth would continue in
the
same line it was in at the disappearance, but would continue to
accelerate...and accelerate...and accelerate...until it reached the
fastests
of all possible velocities.


No - to accelerate it needs a force - there is no tangential force -
if the sun winked out of existence the earth would continue on at a
constant velocity.

To accelerate down to the Earth requires no force.
Just the same way, an object sufficiently accelerated in space will need
no such force. It is just the way things behave in space.

We will have to do some exploring and a little philosophizing to decide what
is pulling planets in an acceleration around their respective stars.

We have yet to explain gravity.

So what of it?

Quote:

Please don't argue with this - I am not trying to fool you - I am not
lying.
I am trying to teach you something - for free!
(I do have a degree in physics by the way - normally I would charge
for tuition)

I respect your education. I took the first year of physics and made an A.
But I found too many unexplained phenomena in physics and decided to
go after reality in my own way.


Quote:

You just need to think carefully about the fact that acceleration
needs a force - staying at a constant velocity is just momentum.

I think you can do this Mark - i have faith ! - just think about that
rock on a string whirling about your head - the only two things going
on are a central force (acceleration inwards) and momentum.

A planet going around the Sun is hardly a rock on a tether.
The planet is going by its own propulsion, while a rock is going
by the swaying propulsion of the person on the other end of the tether.
 
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