On Apr 27, 10:43 pm, "Paul J Kriha"
...

It's a well worn phrase, how sure are you Dus^an did get
the translation from a Serbian Greek textbook?

How can I be sure without even knowing Serbian? I don't suppose that
Bulgarian nursery rhymes learnt before age 3 would qualify.

On Apr 27, 8:49 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"
δεî τον Ή�ακλέα κ�ατεîν τόν τ' εν �εμέᾳ λέοντα το�ς τε γίγαντας τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέ�ατα.
As for the precision, it is not *precise to translate deî by "it is
crucial". Just expresses "should-or-must".

"*ho *Heraklía / Herakléa" is impossible; the definite article always
take the nominative.

"Ton Herakléa deî" already translates "H. must" because the verb is a
different verb than the one that you use in English, with a different
pronominal structure. Some verbs are middle-reflexive or passive in
Greek that are transitive and active in English,

On Apr 27, 8:49 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

δεî τον Ή�ακλέα κ�ατεîν τόν τ' εν �εμέᾳ λέοντα το�ς τε γίγαντας
τά καθ' Έλλάδα τέ�ατα.

"Ton Herakléa deî" already translates "H. must" because the verb is a
different verb than the one that you use in English, with a different
pronominal structure.

Question to Dushan: Are you aware of an earlier, popular pre-19th C
layer of mythologic borrowings in Serbian (like for example Irakli for
Heracles, Adi for hell or death, etc?) Please avoid Bel-Gon references.

Ad in Serbian (underworld, hell). P.P. Njego¹ (Serbian 19th century
poet: "U ad mi se svijet pretvorio" ("My world turned to hell"; ad
Hades)
Herkul, Herkules, Heraklo, Iraklije, Herkules - you can use any of
these names in Serbian.

"mb" :> "Ton Herakléa deî" already translates "H. must" because the verb is a

different verb than the one that you use in English, with a different
pronominal structure. Some verbs are middle-reflexive or passive in
Greek that are transitive and active in English, some impersonal in
English are not so in Greek, etc. Just as "ton Hrakléa" translates "to
Heraklès" or "for Heraklès", not -éa. So translation has nothing to do
with your question. I suppose the question involves something further
to do with structure, but translationwise that's all.
---

Medium or passive are not the point here anyway.

It's an impersonal verb as
they come in English too. The accusative+infinitive clause can be rendered
as:

It's necessary (for) Herakles to defeat ....

On Apr 28, 4:03 pm, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Apr 27, 10:43 pm, "Paul J Kriha"
...

It's a well worn phrase, how sure are you Dus^an did get
the translation from a Serbian Greek textbook?

How can I be sure without even knowing Serbian? I don't suppose that
Bulgarian nursery rhymes learnt before age 3 would qualify.

Instead of you all just bickering endlessly and pointlessly you could
try answering the question which is the purpose of this forum. Much
more constructive. Noone wants to see your names on every post just
for the sake of it.

"Ton Herakléa deî" already translates "H. must" because the verb is a
different verb than the one that you use in English, with a different

"*ho *Heraklía / Herakléa" is impossible; the definite article always
take the nominative.

On Apr 28, 5:44 am, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:

"*ho *Heraklía / Herakléa" is impossible; the definite article always
take the nominative.

This must be a typo: it's a bit meaningless as it stands!  I think we
all understand what it means, though: ho is the nom. def. art & thus
always goes with a noun in the nom. case.

On Apr 29, 1:45 am, Nigel Greenwood <ndsg_m...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

On Apr 28, 5:44 am, mb <azyth...@gmail.com> wrote:

"*ho *Heraklía / Herakléa" is impossible; the definite article always
take the nominative.

This must be a typo: it's a bit meaningless as it stands!  I think we
all understand what it means, though: ho is the nom. def. art & thus
always goes with a noun in the nom. case.

Thanks for completing the missing half of the telegraph...

The Californian kook is drunk again !.. As usual !..
Bumping his head against the telegraph's pole, he has confused
telegram and telegraph...

On Apr 29, 5:46 am, "graph...@www.com" <graph...@www.com
...

The Californian kook is drunk again !.. As usual !..
Bumping his head against the telegraph's pole, he has confused
telegram and telegraph...

And the nasty Lätzeburger mountebank has confused his bladder with his
lantern. Still unable to imagine that any language is not French. Et
un bonnet d'âne, un!

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/telegraph

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:19:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:942b7c1a-35b0-4e60-8d63-8c0e918ca15b@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:

On Apr 29, 6:24 pm, "graph...@www.com" <graph...@www.com> wrote:
On Apr 29, 10:15 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Apr 29, 3:38 pm, "graph...@www.com" <graph...@www.com> wrote:

[...]

To the point that he doesn't know, for instance, that
"mountebank" is a Chicago slang word coming from
Italian "montimbanco" !!!!
Chicago was founded in 1833. The word is attested in
English in 1577. (Before Shakespeare!)
Reference, please !
Reference for what?? Any encyclopedia article on Chicago will give you
that date, and if M-W has a specific date for a word, the dated
quotation is very likely in OED.

Technically it's not a citation for <mountebank>, though it
implies the existence of the word:

   1577 R. STANYHURST Descr. Ireland ii. f. 8/2, in R.
   Holinshed Chron. I, He shoulde haue gone shotfree with
   his complices, and haue made in Mounterbanckwyse the
   most he coulde of his wares.

(Perhaps unsurprisingly, this is the *only* citation s.v.
mountebankwise>.)  The first citation for the noun itself:

   1582 G. WHETSTONE Heptameron Ciuill Disc. sig. Liiiv,
   There mounted, a Mountebanke, his necke bechayned with
   liue Adders, Snakes, Eau'ts,..whose mortall stinges were
   taken away by Arte.

Brian