Money is imaginary,
isn't it? Unless you imagine it has value,

"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:B9GdnZsPVvR-2YzVnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@ptd.net...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.


You misunderstood.

Love, what did I misunderstand then.


You think you know what God is
and you also think that
the god as you know it is imaginary.
That does not mean God is imaginary.
It just means you misunderstood God.

Now tell me what you think God is.

Simple. There is no god. There is no jesus christ. There is no devil.
There is no heaven. There is no hell or hell fire. There are no demons.
There are no twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There
was no talking donkey. The book is fiction.

monkfish wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's
flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the
Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider
the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most
educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's
flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered
in flood water, they understand that the ark could not hold the
millions of species that are now found on earth, and they understand
that there is no DNA evidence to show that all animals on earth came
from single breeding pairs just a few thousand years ago.

But there is one part of the story of Noah's Ark that deserves
special recognition. It shows us something about God that is quite
unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to consider
his actions. That special section is this:

God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals
in the
flood
How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be
"all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would
know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God
knew he would be murdering millions of people. This realization leads
to an obvious question: Why didn't God simply speed up Jesus' arrival
to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why didn't God program
Adam and Eve when he created them to completely circumvent the need
for such a horrendous atrocity?

You may have never considered this question, but it is exquisitely
important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order. It
is mass murder on a global scale.

The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their object
of worship shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think
about it - By (supposedly) murdering nearly every human on the
planet, the Christian God is far more heinous than Hitler. No
"loving" and "perfect" being can also be a mass-murderer bent of
global genocide. Yet Christians willfully worship him. Why?

If you are a Christian, I would ask you to simply look inside
yourself today. Why would you accept a mass murderer into your life?

And Noah's flood is not the only place where God displays these
horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. Here are several other
examples.

In the book of Exodus chapter 12 verse 28, God writes about one of
his early massacres:

So the people of Israel did just as the LORD had commanded through
Moses and
Aaron. And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the
land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the
throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the
firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials
and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud
wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a
single house where someone had not died. Here the death of the
children is directly at the hand of God. In Isaiah chapter 13, God
paints this word picture:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their
little children
will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be
sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir
up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will
buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people
with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show
no compassion for the children. Is this the imprint of a "loving"
God? In Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 20, God paints a similar picture:

Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and
the purposes
which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the little
ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be
appalled at their fate. At the sound of their fall the earth shall
tremble; the sound of their cry shall be heard at the Red Sea. In
Hosea chapter 13, God paints a similar picture:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her
God; they
shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
and their pregnant women ripped open. In Numbers chapter 31, God
paints a similar picture:
Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? Behold, these
caused the
people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously
against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, and so the plague came among
the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among
the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with
him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with
him, keep alive for yourselves. Here Moses, acting as an agent of
God, specifies that thousands of male babies and children be killed,
as well as thousands of women. The Bible states in verse 35 that the
captured women numbered "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women
who had not known man by lying with him." This was not a small
attack. Tens of thousands men, women and children were massacred. In
Deuteronomy Chapter 3 we find this:

Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og
king of Bashan
with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The
LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over
to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to
Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." So the LORD our
God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We
struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his
cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take
from them-the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. All
these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars,
and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely
destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying
every city-men, women and children. But all the livestock and the
plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.
They massacred all the men, women and children in 60 cities at God's
request. Even in the "New Testament" we find the same sort of thing.
In the book of Matthew, chapter 2, mixed into the Christmas story,
the Bible describes an amazing massacre of thousands of babies:

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child
with Mary his
mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened
their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and
frankincense and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they
should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country
another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the
Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the
young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there
until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to
destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by
night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of
Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the
prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Then Herod, when
he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and
sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in
all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to
the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was
fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, In
Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great
mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be
comforted, because they are not. Think about the thousands of
families who were affected by this massacre. The Bible describes
their suffering: they wept and could not be comforted. Of course they
could not be comforted. If you are a parent, you know exactly how
distraught you would feel if an agent of the government came to your
door one morning and slaughtered your children. Why would God do
this? Why would you want anything to do with such a muderous,
horrific being? What can we say about people who would want to
believe in such a being? Why would any normal, intelligent, ethical
human being "worship" such a heinous, demented and despicable "god"
as this?

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.

You misunderstood.

Until you have a mature faith,

ROFL

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you
can
accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be
taken on its own merits."
[Dan Barker]

monkfish wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.


You misunderstood.

Love, what did I misunderstand then.

You think you know what God is
and you also think that
the god as you know it is imaginary.
That does not mean God is imaginary.
It just means you misunderstood God.

Now tell me what you think God is.

A............... MYTH

Prove me wrong.

God used to live in the clouds. Now he exists outside the universe.
Christians keep pushing God further and further away. You must unlearn
what you have learned. ~ Yoda

On every hand there seems to be design to defeat design. If God created
man -- if he is the father of us all, why did he make the criminals, the
insane, the deformed and idiotic? Should the mother, who clasps to her
breast an idiot child, thank God?
[Robert Green Ingersoll, from "Why I Am an Agnostic" (1896)]

Fred Jones wrote:

"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:B9GdnZsPVvR-2YzVnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@ptd.net...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.


You misunderstood.

Love, what did I misunderstand then.


You think you know what God is
and you also think that
the god as you know it is imaginary.
That does not mean God is imaginary.
It just means you misunderstood God.

Now tell me what you think God is.

Simple. There is no god. There is no jesus christ. There is no devil.
There is no heaven. There is no hell or hell fire. There are no demons.
There are no twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There
was no talking donkey. The book is fiction.

as is well illustrated:

The universe revolves around the earth. Stars are pinpricks in the
heavens.
The world is flat (and on pillars)
Bats are a kind of bird.
Rabbits chew their cud.
There is enough water to flood the entire planet Women were created from
a man's rib
Rainbows are a promise from God

[Acknowledgements to 'James, Seattle'

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:9c5e6$48117ca1$d1d89a73$3496@PRIMUS.CA...
"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:ut6dnXKUz5TPc43VnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@ptd.net...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's
flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the
Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider
the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most
educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's
flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered
in flood water, they understand that the ark could not hold the
millions of species that are now found on earth, and they understand
that there is no DNA evidence to show that all animals on earth came
from single breeding pairs just a few thousand years ago.

But there is one part of the story of Noah's Ark that deserves
special recognition. It shows us something about God that is quite
unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to consider
his actions. That special section is this:

God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals
in the
flood
How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be
"all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would
know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God
knew he would be murdering millions of people. This realization leads
to an obvious question: Why didn't God simply speed up Jesus' arrival
to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why didn't God program
Adam and Eve when he created them to completely circumvent the need
for such a horrendous atrocity?

You may have never considered this question, but it is exquisitely
important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order. It
is mass murder on a global scale.

The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their object
of worship shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think
about it - By (supposedly) murdering nearly every human on the
planet, the Christian God is far more heinous than Hitler. No
"loving" and "perfect" being can also be a mass-murderer bent of
global genocide. Yet Christians willfully worship him. Why?

If you are a Christian, I would ask you to simply look inside
yourself today. Why would you accept a mass murderer into your life?

And Noah's flood is not the only place where God displays these
horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. Here are several other
examples.

In the book of Exodus chapter 12 verse 28, God writes about one of
his early massacres:

So the people of Israel did just as the LORD had commanded through
Moses and
Aaron. And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the
land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the
throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the
firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials
and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud
wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a
single house where someone had not died. Here the death of the
children is directly at the hand of God. In Isaiah chapter 13, God
paints this word picture:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their
little children
will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be
sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir
up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will
buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people
with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show
no compassion for the children. Is this the imprint of a "loving"
God? In Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 20, God paints a similar picture:

Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and
the purposes
which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the little
ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be
appalled at their fate. At the sound of their fall the earth shall
tremble; the sound of their cry shall be heard at the Red Sea. In
Hosea chapter 13, God paints a similar picture:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her
God; they
shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
and their pregnant women ripped open. In Numbers chapter 31, God
paints a similar picture:
Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? Behold, these
caused the
people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously
against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, and so the plague came among
the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among
the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with
him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with
him, keep alive for yourselves. Here Moses, acting as an agent of
God, specifies that thousands of male babies and children be killed,
as well as thousands of women. The Bible states in verse 35 that the
captured women numbered "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women
who had not known man by lying with him." This was not a small
attack. Tens of thousands men, women and children were massacred. In
Deuteronomy Chapter 3 we find this:

Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og
king of Bashan
with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The
LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over
to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to
Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." So the LORD our
God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We
struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his
cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take
from them-the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. All
these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars,
and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely
destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying
every city-men, women and children. But all the livestock and the
plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.
They massacred all the men, women and children in 60 cities at God's
request. Even in the "New Testament" we find the same sort of thing.
In the book of Matthew, chapter 2, mixed into the Christmas story,
the Bible describes an amazing massacre of thousands of babies:

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child
with Mary his
mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened
their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and
frankincense and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they
should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country
another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the
Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the
young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there
until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to
destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by
night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of
Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the
prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Then Herod, when
he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and
sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in
all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to
the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was
fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, In
Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great
mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be
comforted, because they are not. Think about the thousands of
families who were affected by this massacre. The Bible describes
their suffering: they wept and could not be comforted. Of course they
could not be comforted. If you are a parent, you know exactly how
distraught you would feel if an agent of the government came to your
door one morning and slaughtered your children. Why would God do
this? Why would you want anything to do with such a muderous,
horrific being? What can we say about people who would want to
believe in such a being? Why would any normal, intelligent, ethical
human being "worship" such a heinous, demented and despicable "god"
as this? It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also
be heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.
This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.

You misunderstood.
Until you have a mature faith,
feel free to ignore those parts
that confuse you.

Actually why should God NOT be "Imaginary" also. Money is imaginary,
isn't
it? Unless you imagine it has value, it's just a little piece of
worthless paper. Animals and atheists attach no value to God, but
thinking people do, and that is the difference.

Frank you and I are nothing more than highly evolved animals. It is the
higher thinking part, the intelligence factor that sets humans apart
from animal. It is because of that thinking part why god does not exist.
See, the people who are over you in what ever church you belong to set
it up that way. It's is to control you. And I see it is working quite
well. See this religion thing is a lot like the implication or metaphor
behind the name monkfish. I'll let you chew on that for a while.

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:f0b53$48117c9a$d1d89a73$3496@PRIMUS.CA...
"Fred Jones" <supportsystem@juno.com> wrote in message
news:tZCdneIYGb26ho3VnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's
flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the
Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider
the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most
educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's
flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered in
flood water,
Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the
known
world didn't include "Mt. Everest"?

The "known world" did not know about the America's yet either. Your
argument is weak like you. The myth of the flood says the whole earth
was covered. In fact Genesis 7:20 says the mountains were covered. It
does not say only half covered, it says covered. So you are implying the
flood was contained in some kind of bubble so that the flood was only in
the local geological area. That means the story is just that a story. It
is a lie.

"Fred Jones" <supportsys...@juno.com> wrote in message

news:tZCdneIYGb26ho3VnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood?
And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might
actually mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible, and
therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most educated and
intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth.
They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered in flood water,

    Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the known
world didn't include "Mt. Everest"?

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:19:11 -0500, bob young wrote:

monkfish wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's
flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the
Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider
the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most
educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's
flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered
in flood water, they understand that the ark could not hold the
millions of species that are now found on earth, and they understand
that there is no DNA evidence to show that all animals on earth came
from single breeding pairs just a few thousand years ago.

But there is one part of the story of Noah's Ark that deserves
special recognition. It shows us something about God that is quite
unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to consider
his actions. That special section is this:

God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals
in the
flood
How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be
"all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would
know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God
knew he would be murdering millions of people. This realization leads
to an obvious question: Why didn't God simply speed up Jesus' arrival
to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why didn't God program
Adam and Eve when he created them to completely circumvent the need
for such a horrendous atrocity?

You may have never considered this question, but it is exquisitely
important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order. It
is mass murder on a global scale.

The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their object
of worship shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think
about it - By (supposedly) murdering nearly every human on the
planet, the Christian God is far more heinous than Hitler. No
"loving" and "perfect" being can also be a mass-murderer bent of
global genocide. Yet Christians willfully worship him. Why?

If you are a Christian, I would ask you to simply look inside
yourself today. Why would you accept a mass murderer into your life?

And Noah's flood is not the only place where God displays these
horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. Here are several other
examples.

In the book of Exodus chapter 12 verse 28, God writes about one of
his early massacres:

So the people of Israel did just as the LORD had commanded through
Moses and
Aaron. And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the
land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the
throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the
firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials
and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud
wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a
single house where someone had not died. Here the death of the
children is directly at the hand of God. In Isaiah chapter 13, God
paints this word picture:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their
little children
will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be
sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir
up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will
buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people
with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show
no compassion for the children. Is this the imprint of a "loving"
God? In Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 20, God paints a similar picture:

Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and
the purposes
which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the little
ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be
appalled at their fate. At the sound of their fall the earth shall
tremble; the sound of their cry shall be heard at the Red Sea. In
Hosea chapter 13, God paints a similar picture:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her
God; they
shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
and their pregnant women ripped open. In Numbers chapter 31, God
paints a similar picture:
Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? Behold, these
caused the
people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously
against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, and so the plague came among
the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among
the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with
him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with
him, keep alive for yourselves. Here Moses, acting as an agent of
God, specifies that thousands of male babies and children be killed,
as well as thousands of women. The Bible states in verse 35 that the
captured women numbered "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women
who had not known man by lying with him." This was not a small
attack. Tens of thousands men, women and children were massacred. In
Deuteronomy Chapter 3 we find this:

Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og
king of Bashan
with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The
LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over
to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to
Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." So the LORD our
God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We
struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his
cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take
from them-the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. All
these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars,
and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely
destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying
every city-men, women and children. But all the livestock and the
plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.
They massacred all the men, women and children in 60 cities at God's
request. Even in the "New Testament" we find the same sort of thing.
In the book of Matthew, chapter 2, mixed into the Christmas story,
the Bible describes an amazing massacre of thousands of babies:

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child
with Mary his
mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened
their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and
frankincense and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they
should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country
another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the
Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the
young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there
until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to
destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by
night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of
Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the
prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Then Herod, when
he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and
sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in
all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to
the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was
fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, In
Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great
mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be
comforted, because they are not. Think about the thousands of
families who were affected by this massacre. The Bible describes
their suffering: they wept and could not be comforted. Of course they
could not be comforted. If you are a parent, you know exactly how
distraught you would feel if an agent of the government came to your
door one morning and slaughtered your children. Why would God do
this? Why would you want anything to do with such a muderous,
horrific being? What can we say about people who would want to
believe in such a being? Why would any normal, intelligent, ethical
human being "worship" such a heinous, demented and despicable "god"
as this?

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.

You misunderstood.

Until you have a mature faith,

ROFL

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you
can
accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be
taken on its own merits."
[Dan Barker]

Does that mean you have no faith
in the scientific method?

--
monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header
because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing
and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:f0b53$48117c9a$d1d89a73$3496@PRIMUS.CA...
"Fred Jones" <supportsystem@juno.com> wrote in message
news:tZCdneIYGb26ho3VnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And
have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might actually
mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible, and therefore
Noah's story, to be literally true, most educated and intelligent people
understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth. They understand that Mt.
Everest was never covered in flood water,
Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the known
world didn't include "Mt. Everest"?

The "known world" did not know about the America's yet either. Your argument is
weak like you. The myth of the flood says the whole earth was covered. In fact
Genesis 7:20 says the mountains were covered. It does not say only half covered,
it says covered. So you are implying the flood was contained in some kind of
bubble so that the flood was only in the local geological area. That means the
story is just that a story. It is a lie.

"Fred Jones" <supportsys...@juno.com> wrote in message

news:tZCdneIYGb26ho3VnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood?
And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might
actually mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible, and
therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most educated and
intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth.
They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered in flood water,

Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the known
world didn't include "Mt. Everest"?

"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:B9GdnZsPVvR-2YzVnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@ptd.net...
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:
"monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you should
be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.

You misunderstood.

Love, what did I misunderstand then.

You think you know what God is
and you also think that
the god as you know it is imaginary.
That does not mean God is imaginary.
It just means you misunderstood God.
Now tell me what you think God is.

Simple. There is no god. There is no jesus christ. There is no devil.
There is no heaven. There is no hell or hell fire. There are no demons.
There are no twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There
was no talking donkey. The book is fiction.

Typical atheist to define the world by what is NOT. LOL These are the

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the
only way you can
accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that
it can't be taken on its own merits."
[Dan Barker]

You forgot to tell us how you apply your principle you call "own

monkfish wrote:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:19:11 -0500, bob young wrote:

monkfish wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:31:48 -0400, Fred Jones wrote:

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's
flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in
the Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who
consider the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally
true, most educated and intelligent people understand that the
story of Noah's flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest
was never covered in flood water, they understand that the ark
could not hold the millions of species that are now found on
earth, and they understand that there is no DNA evidence to show
that all animals on earth came from single breeding pairs just a
few thousand years ago.

But there is one part of the story of Noah's Ark that deserves
special recognition. It shows us something about God that is quite
unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to
consider his actions. That special section is this:

God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of
animals in the
flood
How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be
"all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would
know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God
knew he would be murdering millions of people. This realization
leads to an obvious question: Why didn't God simply speed up
Jesus' arrival to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why
didn't God program Adam and Eve when he created them to completely
circumvent the need for such a horrendous atrocity?

You may have never considered this question, but it is exquisitely
important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order.
It is mass murder on a global scale.

The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their
object of worship shows us something about Christians, does it
not? Think about it - By (supposedly) murdering nearly every human
on the planet, the Christian God is far more heinous than Hitler.
No "loving" and "perfect" being can also be a mass-murderer bent
of global genocide. Yet Christians willfully worship him. Why?

If you are a Christian, I would ask you to simply look inside
yourself today. Why would you accept a mass murderer into your
life?

And Noah's flood is not the only place where God displays these
horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. Here are several
other examples.

In the book of Exodus chapter 12 verse 28, God writes about one of
his early massacres:

So the people of Israel did just as the LORD had commanded
through Moses and
Aaron. And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in
the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on
the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon.
Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his
officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night,
and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was
not a single house where someone had not died. Here the death of
the children is directly at the hand of God. In Isaiah chapter 13,
God paints this word picture:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their
little children
will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will
be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I
will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or
gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the
young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless
babies and will show no compassion for the children. Is this the
imprint of a "loving" God? In Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 20, God
paints a similar picture:

Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and
the purposes
which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the
little ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold
shall be appalled at their fate. At the sound of their fall the
earth shall tremble; the sound of their cry shall be heard at the
Red Sea. In Hosea chapter 13, God paints a similar picture:
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against
her God; they
shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in
pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. In Numbers chapter
31, God paints a similar picture:
Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? Behold,
these caused the
people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously
against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, and so the plague came
among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male
among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by
lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by
lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Here Moses, acting as
an agent of God, specifies that thousands of male babies and
children be killed, as well as thousands of women. The Bible
states in verse 35 that the captured women numbered "thirty-two
thousand persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with
him." This was not a small attack. Tens of thousands men, women
and children were massacred. In Deuteronomy Chapter 3 we find
this:

Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og
king of Bashan
with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The
LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him
over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you
did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." So the
LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all
his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time
we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that
we did not take from them-the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom
in Bashan. All these cities were fortified with high walls and
with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled
villages. We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon
king of Heshbon, destroying every city-men, women and children.
But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried
off for ourselves. They massacred all the men, women and children
in 60 cities at God's request. Even in the "New Testament" we find
the same sort of thing. In the book of Matthew, chapter 2, mixed
into the Christmas story, the Bible describes an amazing massacre
of thousands of babies:

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child
with Mary his
mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had
opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and
frankincense and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that
they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own
country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the
angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise,
and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and
be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the
young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child
and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there
until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I
called my son. Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the
wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the
children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof,
from two years old and under, according to the time which he had
diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which
was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a
voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel
weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they
are not. Think about the thousands of families who were affected
by this massacre. The Bible describes their suffering: they wept
and could not be comforted. Of course they could not be comforted.
If you are a parent, you know exactly how distraught you would
feel if an agent of the government came to your door one morning
and slaughtered your children. Why would God do this? Why would
you want anything to do with such a muderous, horrific being? What
can we say about people who would want to believe in such a being?
Why would any normal, intelligent, ethical human being "worship"
such a heinous, demented and despicable "god" as this?

It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be
heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you
should be able to see that.

This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.

You misunderstood.

Until you have a mature faith,

ROFL

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way
you can
accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't
be taken on its own merits."
[Dan Barker]

Does that mean you have no faith
in the scientific method?


I never use 'faith' I prefer to use 'facts'

Fred Jones wrote:

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:f0b53$48117c9a$d1d89a73$3496@PRIMUS.CA...
"Fred Jones" <supportsystem@juno.com> wrote in message
news:tZCdneIYGb26ho3VnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's
flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the
Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider
the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most
educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's
flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered
in flood water,
Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the
known
world didn't include "Mt. Everest"?

The "known world" did not know about the America's yet either. Your
argument is weak like you. The myth of the flood says the whole earth
was covered. In fact Genesis 7:20 says the mountains were covered. It
does not say only half covered, it says covered. So you are implying
the flood was contained in some kind of bubble so that the flood was
only in the local geological area. That means the story is just that a
story. It is a lie.

It also shows, if we take the other argument, god was ignorant of the
existence of Mt. Everest.