http://www.weldtron.com/products/idlers/Idler%20controls.htm

I have kicked up the rpms to the point where the governor starts to applying
backpressure on the linkage, attached a temporary wire at that point, and
welded with it. It welded with both 1/8 and 3/32 7018 rods just fine. The
current jump switch and fine tune rheostat seem to work fine, too.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:37:25 -0600, "SteveB" <oldfart@flatulence.com
wrote:


I have kicked up the rpms to the point where the governor starts to
applying
backpressure on the linkage, attached a temporary wire at that point, and
welded with it. It welded with both 1/8 and 3/32 7018 rods just fine.
The
current jump switch and fine tune rheostat seem to work fine, too.

http://www.weldtron.com/products/idlers/Idler%20controls.htm

"Gunner Asch" <gunner@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:anno04hgmc4gek56qvsadl92dv930cvuli@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:37:25 -0600, "SteveB" <oldfart@flatulence.com
wrote:


I have kicked up the rpms to the point where the governor starts to
applying
backpressure on the linkage, attached a temporary wire at that point, and
welded with it. It welded with both 1/8 and 3/32 7018 rods just fine.
The
current jump switch and fine tune rheostat seem to work fine, too.

http://www.weldtron.com/products/idlers/Idler%20controls.htm


Thanks, Gunner. I called the Lincoln repair shop here today, and the
tekkie said I could run it on manual at 1550 rpm, which I was a little
amazed at. He said the circuit board didn't go out much, and they could
diagnose and fix whatever was wrong with it for around $300 tops. He said
the circuit boards were under $100, so it sounds like they aren't marking
up those a lot.

I'll get the old gal working, and some cash coming back in, and maybe I'll
find someone locally up in Utah that can fix it, or may even figure it out
myself. In the meantime, a manual setup on a tach will do the deal. I
just didn't want to hurt it.

I am just about ready to start welding with my refurbed SA 200. Notice I
say refurbed, and not restored. There is something wrong with the sensor
that kicks in the throttle when an arc is struck, and the regular idle/high
idle switch seems inoperable. Neither work. I suspect a printed circuit
board and the high/low switch. Solenoid seems to work, as does governor.

I have kicked up the rpms to the point where the governor starts to
applying backpressure on the linkage, attached a temporary wire at that
point, and welded with it. It welded with both 1/8 and 3/32 7018 rods
just fine. The current jump switch and fine tune rheostat seem to work
fine, too.

I removed the commentator cap, and the grooves between each contact on the
commentator appear to be slightly less than 1/8" deep. I took a dentist
pick and carefully cleaned each. The brushes are a full 3/4" thick, so
have a lot of life in them. Either not used much, or changed and not a
lot of hours on them. Springs and guides looked fine.

Hauling this to the Lincoln service center involves a 400 round trip, and
if what I think is wrong with it is the problem, probably a $500 repair
bill.

I talked to a Lincoln tekkie, and he said the high idle was 2300 rpm. I
was wondering if I rigged up a throttle lever and just ran the throttle
manually up to operational rpm range if that would be okay, and I could
just leave the electronics dead where they are. Maybe just cut the wires.
Does anyone know offhand what the operational load rpm of the motor is?
Do you think that if I ran it at that rpm, then sparked an arc that the
engine would die down enough rpms to make the welding current less?

I'm going to call the service center there tomorrow, and in the past they
have been very helpful. However, I'd like to know if anyone here has some
info they have gleaned from firsthand use, or perhaps have a manual for
it. I downloaded the manual for the SA 200 from Lincoln, but it is thin in
some areas as they used some different combinations of motors and
generators. Info would be appreciated, and if someone has a SA 200
operator's manual that covers the Continental motor that would show all
the inner parts and how to rebuild it, I'd be in the market.

It would sure be nice to have this running exactly like it's supposed to,
but if I can make a $10 throttle linkage (or less) vs. a $500 bill to put
it back entirely right, I'd have to weigh that. My main concern is that
it will not hurt the engine or generator to run it with a manual control.
It would be easy to make a lever with a spring release. I also want to
disassemble the governor and clean and inspect and grease it to make sure
it's functioning properly, hence I'd like to have a book.

The project is coming along. I got some red paint on it in various places
and it looks cool. Now to get it working and make a few bucks to finish
the aesthetic things like fenders and lights. And a 6" vise for the work
bench. Maybe a new Smith propane torch head, too. A couple of good tires,
and paint the rims.

Will post a couple of pix after I get home Tuesday of the progress.

Thanks, as always.

Steve

If the linkage is correct and the governor is working it should maintain RPM

"SteveB" <oldfart@flatulence.com> wrote in message
news:tKVOj.90473$497.18660@newsfe14.phx...
I am just about ready to start welding with my refurbed SA 200. Notice I
say refurbed, and not restored. There is something wrong with the sensor
that kicks in the throttle when an arc is struck, and the regular
idle/high idle switch seems inoperable. Neither work. I suspect a
printed circuit board and the high/low switch. Solenoid seems to work, as
does governor.

I have kicked up the rpms to the point where the governor starts to
applying backpressure on the linkage, attached a temporary wire at that
point, and welded with it. It welded with both 1/8 and 3/32 7018 rods
just fine. The current jump switch and fine tune rheostat seem to work
fine, too.

I removed the commentator cap, and the grooves between each contact on
the commentator appear to be slightly less than 1/8" deep. I took a
dentist pick and carefully cleaned each. The brushes are a full 3/4"
thick, so have a lot of life in them. Either not used much, or changed
and not a lot of hours on them. Springs and guides looked fine.

Hauling this to the Lincoln service center involves a 400 round trip, and
if what I think is wrong with it is the problem, probably a $500 repair
bill.

I talked to a Lincoln tekkie, and he said the high idle was 2300 rpm. I
was wondering if I rigged up a throttle lever and just ran the throttle
manually up to operational rpm range if that would be okay, and I could
just leave the electronics dead where they are. Maybe just cut the
wires. Does anyone know offhand what the operational load rpm of the
motor is? Do you think that if I ran it at that rpm, then sparked an arc
that the engine would die down enough rpms to make the welding current
less?

I'm going to call the service center there tomorrow, and in the past they
have been very helpful. However, I'd like to know if anyone here has
some info they have gleaned from firsthand use, or perhaps have a manual
for it. I downloaded the manual for the SA 200 from Lincoln, but it is
thin in some areas as they used some different combinations of motors and
generators. Info would be appreciated, and if someone has a SA 200
operator's manual that covers the Continental motor that would show all
the inner parts and how to rebuild it, I'd be in the market.

It would sure be nice to have this running exactly like it's supposed to,
but if I can make a $10 throttle linkage (or less) vs. a $500 bill to put
it back entirely right, I'd have to weigh that. My main concern is that
it will not hurt the engine or generator to run it with a manual control.
It would be easy to make a lever with a spring release. I also want to
disassemble the governor and clean and inspect and grease it to make sure
it's functioning properly, hence I'd like to have a book.

The project is coming along. I got some red paint on it in various
places and it looks cool. Now to get it working and make a few bucks to
finish the aesthetic things like fenders and lights. And a 6" vise for
the work bench. Maybe a new Smith propane torch head, too. A couple of
good tires, and paint the rims.

Will post a couple of pix after I get home Tuesday of the progress.

Thanks, as always.

Steve

If the linkage is correct and the governor is working it should maintain
RPM pretty close to wherever you have set it, with or without load.

Don Young

I am just about ready to start welding with my refurbed SA 200. Notice I
say refurbed, and not restored. There is something wrong with the sensor
that kicks in the throttle when an arc is struck, and the regular idle/high
idle switch seems inoperable. Neither work. I suspect a printed circuit
board and the high/low switch. Solenoid seems to work, as does governor.

"SteveB" <oldfart@flatulence.com> wrote in message
news:tKVOj.90473$497.18660@newsfe14.phx...
I am just about ready to start welding with my refurbed SA 200. Notice I
say refurbed, and not restored. There is something wrong with the sensor
that kicks in the throttle when an arc is struck, and the regular
idle/high idle switch seems inoperable. Neither work. I suspect a
printed circuit board and the high/low switch. Solenoid seems to work, as
does governor.


IIRC your machine has a solenoid operated idler and not a vacuum type, I
do not have a good record of your trouble shooting process or your
results, IIRC you did report these in an earlier post but I could not find
it easily. Please excuse me if I state the obvious or suggest you do
something you have already done. All my suggestions are from memory and I
have not consulted my manuals for data. I have had several similar
machines over the past 30 years but have not needed to do much work on the
governors or the idlers and all thoughts are IIRC.

With engine stopped
1 - I assume that you have inspected the governor and governor linkage and
that it is free and not seized.
2 - The idler linkage and the iron pin in the solenoid should also be free
and not seized.
3 - The carb linkage should be free to move through the complete range
from idle to full throttle.
4 - Disconnect the solenoid leads, put a multi meter on the leads and
check for continuity and also that there is no short to ground. If OK
then apply 12V power to check the solenoid function. The solenoid should
pull the iron pin into the solenoid and the carb linkage to the idle
position against the idle adjusting screw.

With engine running but solenoid disconnected
5 - The governor should work properly and hold the engine at proper
operating RPM under varying loads with the idler solenoid disconnected.
If this is not happening then you need to fix the governor first.

The engine and governor is covered in the "Teledyne Continental Motors"
"Industrial Products Division" "Operators Maintenance & Overhaul Manual"
It should be available online but I do not have a URL link. Try very hard
to find a copy of this manual, post a URL link if you find one online.

The proper engine operating RPM should be in the engine operating specs or
in the idler control section in the Lincoln SA200 manual you said you
found online. There should be a circuit diagram and a parts list for the
electronic idle device circuit board and other information regarding the
idler circuit and components should also be in this manual.
Please post the URL link to this manual.

6 - If all is working properly so far then your problem must be in the
board or just as likely in its wiring. IIRC, I have occasionally
experienced failure of idler operation on very humid weather or after
pressure washing, this has always cleared up after operating using the
high idle switch and allowing the engine heat and air to warm and dry
everything out. If the engine is cold and the weather damp then the
engine seems to idle too slowly to have enough welder OCV to actuate the
auto idler and cause the engine to speed up, when this happens there seems
to be a very weak or no spark when striking the stick to the work, it can
also mean a poor ground or electrical connection in the leads.

At this point I would remove the board for careful inspection and place in
a warm dry place and allow to dry completely. I would carefully check all
wiring and clean all connections. If you have a friend who understands
electronics then you may be able to check the board components and it may
be repairable.

Only after doing all the above would I consider purchasing a new idler
board.

Good luck,