"Richard The Dreaded Libertarian" <n...@example.net> wrote in messagenews:pan.2008.04.22.03.05.14.843155@example.net...

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:57:51 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:52:47 -0600, "Jon Slaughter"

So what ya think... copper prices have quadrupled in last 5 years. Seems
like it has out performed oil by far.

We gotta do something about those damn chinese!! ;/

And tin. Gold. Concrete. Rice. Steel. Wheat. As a couple of billion
more people want to be middle-class, things get strained.

If they'd just get the government out of the way, and let the Free
Market operate naturally, everyone will get richer. The problem is
way, way, way too much government regulation, taxes, etc, etc, etc...

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich, I agree with you. But, however much I'm against government programs
I can't help but think we need a Manhattan project or Kennedy's "Man on the
moon" program to find new sources of energy for the next decade.
Or remove capital gains tax from energy research companies and let the
free market do it.
The solution will not be one source, it will be many. Solar, wind (Teddy,
I don't care about your view from Martha's Vineyard) oil from algae (not
corn, stupid, stupid, stupid, politicians got bought by the farmer lobby)
and conservation (ooh!) our cars will be smaller in ten years.
Mike

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:i7sr045eboefd2ui8f211vfg0th8nbkc8u@4ax.com...
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:24:18 -0500, "amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote:


"Richard The Dreaded Libertarian" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.04.22.03.05.14.843155@example.net...
[snip]

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich, I agree with you. But, however much I'm against government
programs
I can't help but think we need a Manhattan project or Kennedy's "Man on
the
moon" program to find new sources of energy for the next decade.

Or remove capital gains tax from energy research companies and let the
free market do it.

Oxymoron. Remove capital gain taxes on everything.

The solution will not be one source, it will be many. Solar, wind
(Teddy,
I don't care about your view from Martha's Vineyard) oil from algae (not
corn, stupid, stupid, stupid, politicians got bought by the farmer lobby)
and conservation (ooh!)

our cars will be smaller in ten years.


Not mine

"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote in message
news:eeab2$480df4e7$450139f0$8931@KNOLOGY.NET...

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:i7sr045eboefd2ui8f211vfg0th8nbkc8u@4ax.com...
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:24:18 -0500, "amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote:


"Richard The Dreaded Libertarian" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.04.22.03.05.14.843155@example.net...
[snip]

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

Thanks,
Rich

Rich, I agree with you. But, however much I'm against government
programs
I can't help but think we need a Manhattan project or Kennedy's "Man on
the
moon" program to find new sources of energy for the next decade.

Or remove capital gains tax from energy research companies and let the
free market do it.

Oxymoron. Remove capital gain taxes on everything.

Come on Jim, that's only if you want the free market to grow the economy,
create jobs, and let the people pursue happiness.

The solution will not be one source, it will be many. Solar, wind
(Teddy,
I don't care about your view from Martha's Vineyard) oil from algae (not
corn, stupid, stupid, stupid, politicians got bought by the farmer lobby)
and conservation (ooh!)

our cars will be smaller in ten years.


Not mine ;-)

I hope I'm driving an electric car recharged from a nuclear power
plant.
Mike

...Jim Thompson

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:13:44 -0400, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:52:48 -0700 (PDT), Paul <Quiller123@gmail.com
On Apr 21, 7:06�pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian <n...@example.net
...
If they'd just get the government out of the way, and let the Free
Market operate naturally, everyone will get richer. The problem is
way, way, way too much government regulation, taxes, etc, etc, etc...

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

You and the libertarians have all the answers, eh?

Pretty much, yeah.

So do you think Standard Oil should have been broken
up?

No.

Or do you think monopolies are good for the consumer?

Monopolies are only possible with the collusion of governemnt - the
free market prevents monopolies because there will always be someone
clever enough to compete with them mercilessly.

Do you think gangs and mafia groups should be allowed
to fester and grow unimpeded, because of insufficient law
enforcement?

I'd rather see them "fester and grow unimpeded" than see organized
government do the same. At least the Mafia is honest - they just
want to make money, which they handily do by providing products
that customers want but government doesn't want them to have. The
government, on the other hand, is only interested in micromanaging
every aspect of your life and expanding their ideologies.

When guns are outlawed, only government and other criminals will
have guns.

and conservation (ooh!) our cars will be smaller in ten years.
Mike

"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote:


and conservation (ooh!) our cars will be smaller in ten years.
Mike

Like this:
http://www.chevrolet.nl/matiz/matiz-index.html

One thing I just don't get: once gasoline gets more expensive, the
tax revenue to the government goes up. So the gov't has no real
incentive to curb gas prices (barring unpleasant things like riots).

In <8295f35a-4de8-496b-a540-547da72e9...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote in part:

One thing I just don't get: once gasoline gets more expensive, the
tax revenue to the government goes up. So the gov't has no real
incentive to curb gas prices (barring unpleasant things like riots).

USA's Federal gas tax is 18 cents a gallon, according to John McCain.

I seem to think it was that much back in the Clinton administration.
Back when gas was about a dollar a gallon, I saw the oil company ads in
magazines sying almost half that was taxes. So it is not going up
automatically with gasoline prices. So I think the gubmint gets less
money if gas prices go up, at least if rising gas prices actually gets
people to use less of the stuff.

- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

On Apr 21, 7:06 pm, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian <n...@example.net
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:57:51 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:52:47 -0600, "Jon Slaughter"

So what ya think... copper prices have quadrupled in last 5 years.  Seems
like it has out performed oil by far.

We gotta do something about those damn chinese!! ;/

And tin. Gold. Concrete. Rice. Steel. Wheat. As a couple of billion
more people want to be middle-class, things get strained.

If they'd just get the government out of the way, and let the Free
Market operate naturally, everyone will get richer. The problem is
way, way, way too much government regulation, taxes, etc, etc, etc...

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

Thanks,
Rich

You and the libertarians have all the answers, eh?

So do you think Standard Oil should have been broken
up? Or do you think monopolies are good for the consumer?

Do you think gangs and mafia groups should be allowed
to fester and grow unimpeded, because of insufficient law
enforcement?

Richard The Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
If they'd just get the government out of the way,
and let the Free Market operate naturally, everyone will get richer.
The problem is way, way, way too much government regulation, taxes,
etc, etc, etc...

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

You'd have a point IF there wasn't collateral damage
due to the greed and stupidity of OTHERS.

Observe the folks whose houses are plumetting in value because of
the folks in their neighborhood who are defaulting on their loans.
A balance of laissez-faire and regulation is always required
to try to avoid the no-man-is-an-island problem.

Of course, there are alternatives to a social existance.
http://www.google.com/images?q=Ted-Kaczynski+cabin

amdx wrote:
our cars will be smaller in ten years.

Nico Coesel wrote:
Like this:
http://www.chevrolet.nl/matiz/matiz-index.html

Jim Thompson wrote:
When you have a head-on collision with my Q45,
do I use a bucket or a shovel to scoop up your remains ?:-)

You just reminded me about how I smirk when I see a Hummer
--especially these days, given their poor showing in crash tests.
The urban assault vehicles on the nooz
flipped onto their roofs like dead bugs are amusing too.

On Apr 22, 3:41 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In <8295f35a-4de8-496b-a540-547da72e9...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>,
mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote in part:

One thing I just don't get: once gasoline gets more expensive, the
tax revenue to the government goes up. So the gov't has no real
incentive to curb gas prices (barring unpleasant things like riots).

USA's Federal gas tax is 18 cents a gallon, according to John McCain.

I seem to think it was that much back in the Clinton administration.
Back when gas was about a dollar a gallon, I saw the oil company ads in
magazines sying almost half that was taxes. So it is not going up
automatically with gasoline prices. So I think the gubmint gets less
money if gas prices go up, at least if rising gas prices actually gets
people to use less of the stuff.

Don't forget state and local taxes.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:15:42 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:06:00 GMT, Richard The Dreaded Libertarian

If they'd just get the government out of the way, and let the Free
Market operate naturally, everyone will get richer. The problem is
way, way, way too much government regulation, taxes, etc, etc, etc...

Government _ALWAYS_ makes things worse.

Rich, I rarely agree with you, but this time you're dead-on correct!


Apparently, things are topsy-turvy all over the place - I saw a few
minutes of Mc-am-i-my-brother's-keeper-Cain on some talk show or
news thing and I actually heard him use the words "cut" and "spending"
in the same sentence! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:29:46 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:12:37 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

and conservation (ooh!) our cars will be smaller in ten years.

Like this:
http://www.chevrolet.nl/matiz/matiz-index.html

When you have a head-on collision with my Q45, do I use a bucket or a
shovel to scoop up your remains ?:-)

It's easy to avoid a head-on crash (unless somebody's actively hostile
and _intends_ to do you harm) - just look in front of the car, and if
there's something already there (or coming at you), then don't go
there.

I also know a guaranteed way to never ever have an accident - just
make absolutely sure that whatever you do, you do it on purpose. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Oh don't you worry about it. Once gasoline gets expensive enough,
producing petroleum from Canadian oil sands becomes economical.

Isn't there supposed to be a whole lot of methane under the sea?
Methane hydrates?

Once gasoline hits about $10/gallon, it will be economical to install
solar collectors in the desert, make hydrogen from brackish
groundwater, and convert hydrogen plus CO2 to synthetic petroleum via
the Fischer-Tropsch reaction.

In some countries you can easily just walk to the market. Here in
most of the USA we have zoning ordinances: you have no choice but to
drive to the commercially zoned businesses (think Save Mart, Costco,
Wal Mart, etc.)

One thing I just don't get: once gasoline gets more expensive, the
tax revenue to the government goes up. So the gov't has no real
incentive to curb gas prices (barring unpleasant things like riots).

Just my one Philippine Peso ( = approx. two cents. Oh wait, now it's
almost three cents.)

Michael