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Guest
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:42 am
I read that Philipinos in the U.S. are now buying and shipping rice to
the Philippines.
And then there's this morass...

On Apr 23, 10:27 am, "P. Maffia" <pmaf...@centurytel.net> wrote:
Quote:
The only difference between you and EskWIRED is that he is marginally
smarter.


And the difference between your brain and a block of wood
is....er...nothing.

Why don't you show what's wrong with this information?

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Ruff/ruff_apr212008.html

Hyperinflationary Depression

Until now, I have given equal credence to two possible scenarios:

1. We could have several years of inflation as we do now, and the
powers-that-be would have a sudden rush of brains to the head, like
Paul Volcker and Ronald Reagan did in 1980, and stop the “printing
press,” ending inflation and the gold and silver bull market, for at
least a few years; or

2. It is too late to stop it. The political forces and the Unfunded
Liabilities would prevent the powers-that-be from ending the money-
printing process, and in fact, would grossly accelerate it. This would
result in a hyper inflation (400 percent inflation or more), and the
eventual total destruction of the dollar. Suddenly America would find
its money totally useless. Store shelves would be empty, gas would go
through the stratosphere, and Americans would suffer through the
greatest threat since the Great Depression of the ’30s.

So what caused me to settle on number two?

I received John Williams' recent newsletter “Shadow Government
Statistics,” www.shadowstats.com in which he describes his case for a
hyper-inflationary depression. It was most persuasive. It certainly
persuaded me, and is consistent with what I’ve said for years.

I spent the '70s fending off the media label of "Prophet of Doom,"
arguing that I expected much less than doom. It turned out to be so.

With my new book in circulation, I’ll face the same accusations, and
this time they are right. The financial world we know and love is
facing genuine doom. You could lose the value of all your assets in
the stock market. You could find yourself unable to buy essential
commodities, when you want them, and gold and silver will be valued,
not in the tens or hundreds of dollars per ounce, but in the
thousands!

John Williams’ Shadow Government Statistics newsletter is most
unusual. John is a consulting economist with all of the academic
credentials. Most of his clients are bank officers and high-ranking
corporate officers. He has rearranged the government data according to
historical analysis.

For example, the government says inflation is under four percent by
the simple expedient of eliminating energy and food from their
calculations. John says inflation is over 11 percent, including energy
and food.

His academic credentials are way ahead of mine, but at least I know
enough to understand his work. It’s my job to try to reduce such
things to terms my subscribers can grasp.

Here are some brief paragraphs from this 25-page report.

“With the creation of massive amounts of new fiat (not backed by gold)
dollars will come the eventual complete collapse of the value of the
U.S. dollar and related dollar-denominated paper assets.”

" …a law professor at Harvard and The University of California,
Berkeley, who experienced the Weimar Republic hyperinflation, said,
'It was horrible. Horrible! Like lightning it struck. No one was
prepared. You cannot imagine the rapidity with which the whole thing
happened. The shelves in the grocery stores were empty. You could buy
nothing with your paper money."'

“…the still-unfolding banking solvency crisis has confirmed the Fed’s
and the U.S. government’s willingness to spend whatever money they
have to create in order to keep the financial system from imploding.”

" The circumstance envisioned ahead is not one of double- or triple-
digit annual inflation, but more along the lines of seven- to 10-digit
inflation seen in other circumstances during the last century."

“The historical culprit generally has been the use of fiat currencies
- currencies with no asset backing such as gold - and the resulting
massive printing of currency that the issuing authority needed to
support its system, when it did not have the ability, otherwise, to
raise enough money forits perceived needs, through taxes or other
means.”

“The United States is no exception, already having obligated itself to
liabilities well beyond its ability ever to pay off.”

“Hyperinflation: Extreme inflation, minimally in excess of four-digit
annual percent change, where the involved currency becomes worthless.
A fairly crude definition of hyperinflation is a circumstance, where,
due to extremely rapid price increases, the largest pre-hyperinflation
bank note ($100) becomes worth more as functional toilet paper than as
currency.”

"The current economic contraction is about halfway towards being
classified as a 'depression.'"

"Official CPI could be running in double-digits by year-end 2008."

“The U.S. economy has been in a recession since late-2006, entering
the second down-leg of a multiple-dip economic contraction, where the
first down-leg was the recession of 2001 that really began back in
late-1999. Annual CPI inflation currently is running around 11.6%,
again, facing further upside pressures.”

“The evolving depression quickly will move to great-depression status,
when the hyperinflation hits. It will be extremely disruptive to the
conduct of normal commerce.”

“Ongoing M3 currently shows a record annual growth rate of 17.3%.”

"In the near future, dollar selling should build towards an extreme,
with heavy foreign investment in the dollar fleeing the U.S. currency
for safety elsewhere. With the domestic financial markets and U.S.
Treasuries so heavily dependent on foreign capital for liquidity, the
Federal Reserve - now touted as the formal financial market stabilizer
- will be forced increasingly to monetize federal debt. That process
will build over time, given the federal government’s effective
bankruptcy."

“Again, the current circumstance will evolve into a hyperinflationary
depression, then a great depression. Although such is not likely much
before 2010, or after 2018, the financial end game for the current
markets will tend to come sooner rather than later and will break with
surprising speed when it hits.”

“2008 will favor an incumbent party loss, i.e. a victory for the
Democrats.”

“What promises hyperinflation this time is the lack of monetary
discipline formerly imposed on the system by the gold standard, and a
Fed dedicated to preventing a collapse in the money supply and the
implosion of the still, extremely over-leveraged domestic financial
system.”

“The limits to the unlimited abuse of the debt standard are
particularly evident in the GAAP-based financial statements of the
U.S. government, which show the actual federal deficit at $4.0-plus
trillion for 2007 alone, with total federal obligations standing at
$62.6 trillion. With no ability to honor these obligations, the
government effectively is bankrupt.”
<snip>


Quote:
"strabo" <str...@flashlight.net> wrote in message

news:1208917808_474@isp.n...

EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
In misc.survivalism sno <s...@opelc.com> wrote:

Oil prices are stable in relation to gold....20 yrs ago oil was
in 20/30 dollar range....gold 250/350 range....today oil 100
...gold 1000......still about 10 to one....

Why are oil and gold moving in opposite directions lately?

Oil has been going through the roof, but gold has plummeted over 10% in
the last 6 weeks. Gold is around $900, and oil is around $120. The ratio
is now around 7.5:1 and widening.

Gold and silver have been kept artificially low for 15 years.
The Plunge Protection Team works around the clock.

But you should know this.

Given your continuing ignorance in spite of all the data and
explanations given you in recent months, I'm beginning to think that
you're a phony.


What took you?
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:56 am
Guest
"Paul Thomas, CPA" wrote:
Quote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
the dollar is not being accepted as a reference any more

Except that if you were to take your gold nuggets into a 7-11 to pay for
that tank of gas, you'd either be laughed at till you paid in dollars, or
they'd call the cops because you pumped but couldn't pay.

Every place in the world (save for Cuba) accepts US dollars.


You see the word gold and assume "gold bug"...and do not read
any further....I do not know (or feel) gold would be a better
reference stuff....maybe if the dollar stops being the
preferred reference the new stuff will be oil....or some other
currency....the euro...???....I do not know....what I have
written is what is happening....and explains the
run up in commodities...

As an example of the dollar not longer being accepted as
easily all over the world...

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_dollar_no_longer_accepted_at_Taj_Mahal_and_other_Indian_historical_sites

have fun......sno

--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???

This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:14 am
Guest
"Paul Thomas, CPA" wrote:
Quote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote

Another way to see it....

Article talking about how inflation figures were changed to hide
true figures....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=59409

Graph showing figures reported by government and figures without
"tricks"....

Yet, those "tricks" have only fooled you. Everyone knows that the
government posted rate of inflation isn't the true rate of inflation.

And don't ask how they compute the un/employment rate.

At best it's all guesses based on flawed input data. Garbage in, garbage
out.


I contend that "everyone" doesn't know....the average person on the
street has no idea.....all he knows is he is eating hamburger...
when once in awhile he had enough money to eat a steak....and
doesn't any more....

And now....all of a sudden....he is being hit with super rising
energy...food....and other commodity prices....

I do not think the government did not know what they were doing...
is not a case of garbage in...garbage out...

have fun....sno
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:32 am
Guest
"Paul Thomas, CPA" wrote:
Quote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
if you have any check book software with a history
over the past 10 yrs or so....run a check and see
how much it costs you to live over what it did then

Or...if you do not...check with your mother about how much it
cost her to live....when she was your age....

Ask here what her income was also.

One factor of inflation is that the people you buy from, and everyone in the
supply chain including you, wants to make a little bit more than the next
guy. Meaning that the biggest chunk of inflation is that you - and everyone
else - does not accept the status quo with regards to income. You want to
have more, so do the folks in the supply chain. To get more you have to
increase your prices to your customers, clients, patients, etc. Maybe
slightly, maybe drastically.

The point is that government didn't cause inflation. WE DID.

The government didn't cause an economic slump. WE DID.


What we are seeing starting to happen now is not the normal type
of inflation we have seen in the past...not the wage/price
inflation you are talking about.....we are seeing the dollar starting
to stop being the referenced stuff that everything is compared to...
wether the dollar will stop being the referenced stuff is anyone's
guess....when the dollar stops being the "reserve currency" of the
world....something else will have replaced it...has not happened
yet...but appears to be starting....if people world over do not
have faith that a dollar stuck in a drawer over a long period of
time will have the same value when it is taken out years later
(supply/demand for the dollar had not changed over the years)
then they will not accept it as reference.....and they are
starting to realize the supply has exceeded demand for the
dollar for many years....

monetary inflation....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_inflation

have fun.....sno
Paul Thomas, CPA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:04 am
Guest
"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
Quote:
I contend that "everyone" doesn't know....the average person on the
street has no idea.....all he knows is he is eating hamburger...


Maybe so. It's his choice though.




Quote:
when once in awhile he had enough money to eat a steak....and
doesn't any more....



Again, it's his choice where his money goes.






Quote:
And now....all of a sudden....he is being hit with super rising
energy...food....and other commodity prices....



Yet, it's still his choice where his money goes, and, how much of it.

He's got what, rabbit ear TV service, sattellite TV, basic cable, expanded
basic cable, all the premium channels, pay-per-view, etc at a rate of $100 a
month (or more)---for the couple of hours he may actually watch the damn
thing.

He's got what, not a land-line phone, but a cell phone, and not just one
that makes and takes calls, but one that holds more music than he can listen
to in 24 hours, takes pictures, texts, surfs the web----all at hundreds of
dollars a month in service charges.

He's got what, a $400+ a month car payment, but it doesn't stop there. He's
added a $1000 stereo system with sub-woofers so massive he had to take the
back seats out, and rims and tires that cost four times that.



It's his choice to eat hamburger and pay for his toys.






Quote:
I do not think the government did not know what they were
doing... is not a case of garbage in...garbage out...





You've never been the subject of the survey group whose data gets used as
part of the basis for the reports out of DC. My clients have. And I find
it very interesting that when we tell them that the employer hired one more
person, the next week the government reports that so many thousands of new
jobs were created in the prior month. And when the kids go home for summer,
and we report that the number of employees decreased in June, the government
reports that tens of thousands of you are newly unemployed. It's scarily
amazing how what we told them was basically repeated enmass and by some
multiple as "official". When the client sold the business, and we reported
that __that__ business had no more employees, well, that's when the
government reported that the economy went into the shitter and billions of
you lost jobs.





Yup. Garbage in - garbage out.

We could have kept the economy afloat by telling them that he hired a few
more people and gave them all raises.

Then the government would report that there were hundreds of thousands of
new job created in the last month and that personal incomes rose by some
percentage.







You give the government way too much credit for knowing what they are doing.
Reality is so much different.







--
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.
----------
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:50 am
Guest
"Paul Thomas, CPA" wrote:
Quote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
I contend that "everyone" doesn't know....the average person on the
street has no idea.....all he knows is he is eating hamburger...

Maybe so. It's his choice though.

when once in awhile he had enough money to eat a steak....and
doesn't any more....

Again, it's his choice where his money goes.

And now....all of a sudden....he is being hit with super rising
energy...food....and other commodity prices....

Yet, it's still his choice where his money goes, and, how much of it.

He's got what, rabbit ear TV service, sattellite TV, basic cable, expanded
basic cable, all the premium channels, pay-per-view, etc at a rate of $100 a
month (or more)---for the couple of hours he may actually watch the damn
thing.

He's got what, not a land-line phone, but a cell phone, and not just one
that makes and takes calls, but one that holds more music than he can listen
to in 24 hours, takes pictures, texts, surfs the web----all at hundreds of
dollars a month in service charges.

He's got what, a $400+ a month car payment, but it doesn't stop there. He's
added a $1000 stereo system with sub-woofers so massive he had to take the
back seats out, and rims and tires that cost four times that.

It's his choice to eat hamburger and pay for his toys.

I do not think the government did not know what they were
doing... is not a case of garbage in...garbage out...

You've never been the subject of the survey group whose data gets used as
part of the basis for the reports out of DC. My clients have. And I find
it very interesting that when we tell them that the employer hired one more
person, the next week the government reports that so many thousands of new
jobs were created in the prior month. And when the kids go home for summer,
and we report that the number of employees decreased in June, the government
reports that tens of thousands of you are newly unemployed. It's scarily
amazing how what we told them was basically repeated enmass and by some
multiple as "official". When the client sold the business, and we reported
that __that__ business had no more employees, well, that's when the
government reported that the economy went into the shitter and billions of
you lost jobs.

Yup. Garbage in - garbage out.

We could have kept the economy afloat by telling them that he hired a few
more people and gave them all raises.

Then the government would report that there were hundreds of thousands of
new job created in the last month and that personal incomes rose by some
percentage.

You give the government way too much credit for knowing what they are doing.
Reality is so much different.


lol....you are the first person that has ever told me that I gave
the government to much credit for anything...<grin>....

However in the case of reporting statistics such as inflation/
job growth...etc.....I do believe they know exactly...maybe not
what the figures should be....but they know they are reporting
low figures.....and why......

have fun.....sno

--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???

This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:01 am
Guest
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
Quote:

In misc.survivalism sno <sno@opelc.com> wrote:

....if people world over do not
have faith that a dollar stuck in a drawer over a long period of
time will have the same value when it is taken out years later

Then they are realistic, and have faith that money needs to be invested
properly in order to retain its value.

(supply/demand for the dollar had not changed over the years)
then they will not accept it as reference.....

A little while ago, you claimed that only commodities like gold keep a par
value with respect to other commodities, like oil. So you claimed that NO
currency meets your test of no inflation/deflation.

You are right...I do not know of any existing currency that would
be a good reference......that would meet the test of no inflation/
deflation....but that has not stopped people in the past from
using a currency as a reference.....

Quote:

So what the heck - if you believe wat you said beore, then there exists no
other currency that can be accepted as a reference.

So what are you worried about?

I am not worried...if you read the complete thread you know what I
am trying to do is explain what I believe/appears to be happening.....

what, me worry...??....have fun....sno

--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???

This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)
P. Maffia
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:23 pm
Guest
"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote in message news:480E88BF.A60FFE19@opelc.com...
Quote:

"P. Maffia" wrote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote in message
news:480E83D8.1E5301C8@opelc.com...
it is beginning to look as
if people are deciding they do not want the dollar as a reference
because our government has printed to much of it....more then
there is demand.....and government has hidden this fact for a
number of years....

What utter nonsense! Nothing has been hidden, the damn figures are
published
weekly, daily, in fact.

And you believe them....???....if you have any check book software
with a history over the past 10 yrs or so....run a check and see
how much it costs you to live over what it did then.....and then
figure out the inflation rate.....

Or...if you do not...check with your mother about how much it
cost her to live....when she was your age....

I notice that you failed to address the fact that I only challenged the
moronic claim that the government has "hidden" the facts from the public.

The reality is that the amount of money in the system is published weekly by
the Federal Reserve and anyone who is breathing and is spending money knows
that things cost more than they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

And if you had even half a brain cell in your head and correlated the
"official" inflation rate with the inflation rate, however,\ you want to
calculate it, it will be, within a small margin of error, the same.

Also if you had bothered to look and compare income figures with inflation
you would find that over the same period, income kept pace with, if it did
not exceed, inflation.
P. Maffia
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:27 pm
Guest
The only difference between you and EskWIRED is that he is marginally
smarter.

"strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message
news:1208917808_474@isp.n...
Quote:
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
In misc.survivalism sno <sno@opelc.com> wrote:

Oil prices are stable in relation to gold....20 yrs ago oil was
in 20/30 dollar range....gold 250/350 range....today oil 100
...gold 1000......still about 10 to one....

Why are oil and gold moving in opposite directions lately?

Oil has been going through the roof, but gold has plummeted over 10% in
the last 6 weeks. Gold is around $900, and oil is around $120. The ratio
is now around 7.5:1 and widening.


Gold and silver have been kept artificially low for 15 years.
The Plunge Protection Team works around the clock.

But you should know this.

Given your continuing ignorance in spite of all the data and
explanations given you in recent months, I'm beginning to think that
you're a phony.





----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Paul Thomas, CPA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:28 pm
Guest
"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
Quote:
we are seeing the dollar starting to stop being the
referenced stuff that everything is compared to...




Wow. That's almost word for word what the British said a couple of hundred
years ago, and the French before that, and the Romans before that, and the
Greek before that.

That the people of the world change their reference point for value isn't
new or news. It happens every so many hundred years. Get used to it.




Quote:
wether the dollar will stop being the referenced stuff
is anyone's guess....when the dollar stops being the
"reserve currency" of the world....something else will
have replaced it..



Ya think the US dollar "replaced" something? What was it in the early
1600's?


And of course, you see things only from the perspective of a US citizen. I
suspect the Japanese don't care much about what a US dollar will buy, but
what their Yen buys. And so forth and so on among the countries.






--
"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For
those who do not, none will suffice." - Joseph Dunniger

Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia
Paul Thomas, CPA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:36 pm
Guest
"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
Quote:
You see the word gold and assume "gold bug"




Don't know what a "gold bug" is, so obvoiusly that you assume that people
classify you as one, you must be one.



Quote:
what I have written is what is happening....and
explains the run up in commodities...



Commodities aren't increasing in price because the dollar is weak in
relation to other currencies.

Commodities are running short. Period. That short supply of commodities is
what drives up prices.






--
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
----------------
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:42 pm
Guest
"P. Maffia" wrote:
Quote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote in message news:480E88BF.A60FFE19@opelc.com...

"P. Maffia" wrote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote in message
news:480E83D8.1E5301C8@opelc.com...
it is beginning to look as
if people are deciding they do not want the dollar as a reference
because our government has printed to much of it....more then
there is demand.....and government has hidden this fact for a
number of years....

What utter nonsense! Nothing has been hidden, the damn figures are
published
weekly, daily, in fact.

And you believe them....???....if you have any check book software
with a history over the past 10 yrs or so....run a check and see
how much it costs you to live over what it did then.....and then
figure out the inflation rate.....

Or...if you do not...check with your mother about how much it
cost her to live....when she was your age....

I notice that you failed to address the fact that I only challenged the
moronic claim that the government has "hidden" the facts from the public.

The reality is that the amount of money in the system is published weekly by
the Federal Reserve and anyone who is breathing and is spending money knows
that things cost more than they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

If they are not trying to hide it...then why are they reporting
a rate so much lower then the real inflation rate.....the
total amount of money...(m3)....is no longer being reported....

Quote:

And if you had even half a brain cell in your head and correlated the
"official" inflation rate with the inflation rate, however,\ you want to
calculate it, it will be, within a small margin of error, the same.

Also if you had bothered to look and compare income figures with inflation
you would find that over the same period, income kept pace with, if it did
not exceed, inflation.

At least now I may have you questioning/thinking about the subject....
and maybe have learned a little bit about monetary inflation.....
any why oil and other commodities are rising so much....

I however believe that you have been fooled by the government....

have fun....sno

--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???

This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)
Paul Thomas, CPA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:02 pm
Guest
"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
Quote:
However in the case of reporting statistics such as inflation/
job growth...etc.....I do believe they know exactly..



They base their reports on exactly what I and others like me give them.
These bozo's have called and we have given them the exact same numbers as
the last time, and they have called and wanted the payroll numbers for today
(that we haven't run yet) and we guess. And those figures we, and others
like my office, give the government are all lumped together and presented as
gospel to the public when it's based, in part, on garbage given to them.






Quote:
maybe not what the figures should be....but they know
they are reporting low figures.....and why......



I'll give you that on the inflation numbers because they omit some of the
biggest chunk of your daily cash outlay. They have/had reasons for doing it
that way, maybe for the better, maybe not. But that's the way it is.







--
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.
----------
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
sno
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:24 pm
Guest
"Paul Thomas, CPA" wrote:
Quote:

"sno" <sno@opelc.com> wrote
However in the case of reporting statistics such as inflation/
job growth...etc.....I do believe they know exactly..

They base their reports on exactly what I and others like me give them.
These bozo's have called and we have given them the exact same numbers as
the last time, and they have called and wanted the payroll numbers for today
(that we haven't run yet) and we guess. And those figures we, and others
like my office, give the government are all lumped together and presented as
gospel to the public when it's based, in part, on garbage given to them.

maybe not what the figures should be....but they know
they are reporting low figures.....and why......

I'll give you that on the inflation numbers because they omit some of the
biggest chunk of your daily cash outlay. They have/had reasons for doing it
that way, maybe for the better, maybe not. But that's the way it is.


I think their reasons at the time were and maybe are still reasonable...
however I think they have dug themselves into a hole and now are
scrambling on a way to get out of it...and in the process are making
things worse....letting the rest of the world know how bad things
are.....causing people to lose faith in the dollar....which is
showing up in the prices of commodities....

This is an especially bad time for this to happen as there is
demand inflation happening at the same time....it is anyone's
guess which is the biggest factor.....mine happens to be a
"catch up" hypothesis.....that inflation has been hidden and
we are catching up to what we should have seen over the years....

have fun....sno


--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???

This tag line is generated by:
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Fred Kasner
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:24 pm
Guest
hhc314@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 21, 1:58 pm, knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Apr 21, 9:29 am, knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:





On Apr 19, 4:49 pm, "Paul Thomas" <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
knews4u2c...@yahoo.com> wrote
The Fury of the Poor
So which came first....poor.....or hungry?
Ask the Japanese:
* Justin Norrie, Tokyo
* April 21, 2008
* Page 1 of 2
MARIKO Watanabe admits she could have chosen a better time to take up
baking. This week, when the Tokyo housewife visited her local Ito-
Yokado supermarket to buy butter to make a cake, she found the shelves
bare.
"I went to another supermarket, and then another, and there was no
butter at those either. Everywhere I went there were notices saying
Japan has run out of butter. I couldn't believe it — this is the first
time in my life I've wanted to try baking cakes and I can't get any
butter," said the frustrated cook.
Japan's acute butter shortage, which has confounded bakeries,
restaurants and now families across the country, is the latest
unforeseen result of the global agricultural commodities crisis.
A sharp increase in the cost of imported cattle feed and a decline in
milk imports, both of which are typically provided in large part by
Australia, have prevented dairy farmers from keeping pace with demand.
While soaring food prices have triggered rioting among the starving
millions of the third world, in wealthy Japan they have forced a
pampered population to contemplate the shocking possibility of a long-
term — perhaps permanent — reduction in the quality and quantity of
its food.
A 130% rise in the global cost of wheat in the past year, caused
partly by surging demand from China and India and a huge injection of
speculative funds into wheat futures, has forced the Government to hit
flour millers with three rounds of stiff mark-ups. The latest — a 30%
increase this month — has given rise to speculation that Japan, which
relies on imports for 90% of its annual wheat consumption, is no
longer on the brink of a food crisis, but has fallen off the cliff.
According to one government poll, 80% of Japanese are frightened about
what the future holds for their food supply.
Last week, as the prices of wheat and barley continued their
relentless climb, the Japanese Government discovered it had exhausted
its ¥230 billion ($A2.37 billion) budget for the grains with two
months remaining. It was forced to call on an emergency ¥55 billion
reserve to ensure it could continue feeding the nation.
"This was the first time the Government has had to take such drastic
action since the war," said Akio Shibata, an expert on food imports,
who warned the Agriculture Ministry two years ago that Japan would
have to cut back drastically on its sophisticated diet if it did not
become more self-sufficient.
snip
And from sea to shining sea.....http://nysun.com/news/food-rationing-confronts-breadbasket-world

Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World
By JOSH GERSTEIN, Staff Reporter of the Sun | April 21, 2008

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. — Many parts of America, long considered the
breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable
phenomenon: food rationing.

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Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England, and on the West
Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand
outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers
are hoarding grain stocks.

At a Costco Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif., yesterday, shoppers
grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched
in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy.

“Where’s the rice?” an engineer from Palo Alto, Calif., Yajun Liu,
said. “You should be able to buy something like rice. This is
ridiculous.”

The bustling store in the heart of Silicon Valley usually sells four
or five varieties of rice to a clientele largely of Asian immigrants,
but only about half a pallet of Indian-grown Basmati rice was left in
stock. A 20-pound bag was selling for $15.99.
snip>- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh pity the humanity with all this pissing and moaning.

Fifty years ago I was taught that the prices of a commodity in a
normal market is determined by the intersection of the supply and
demand curves, without other constraints being imposed. Therefore, to
maximize my profit, I increase my prices until demand falls off, if I
want to maximize my profits. (A concept straight out of Adam Smith's
"Wealth of Nations".)

In other words, as anyone who sells on eBay already knows, you let the
market determine the selling price.

So why all the uproar about the cost of fuels? Evidently the demand
can sustain a price above $3.00/gallon, but I strongly suspect that
when the price goes above $4.00/gal, demand will sharply fall off, and
the price of gasoline accordinly.

Something that nobody seems to take note of that back in the 1950s
when gasoline sold at $0.26/gal, people of comfortable means earned
typically between $5,000 to $10,000 per year, and a 2,000 square-foot
home in a very comfortable neighborhood sold for less than $30,000. A
starter home sold for around $7,000, Cigaretts sold for 23-cents a
pack, and when you put a quarter into the cigarette vending machine, 2-
cents were returned next to the pack.

Since the 1950s, inflation has resulted in the devaluaton of the
dollar now over 90%. What was a dollar in the 1950s is now only about
9-cents by my simple calculations. The Arab oil merchants are not
responsible for this, only Americans are to blame. We began this
decline simpy by going off the gold standard, and printing as much
money as we needed because the only cost to do this was the paper and
ink, a very stupid move in my judgement.

So, rather than pissiong and moaning, why not attack the inflation
problem and fix it. This would mean a completely new definition of the
dollar, and pinning it to something of fixed value, like gold, silver
or platinum, and then sticking with that valuation and insuring that
we have the precious metal assets to back up that newly defined
dollar. Such a move would be very painful for many Americans, but
would return us to the real world, rather than the mythicial world in
which we now live.

Harry C.




Harry,
Your argument is partially true. A lot of the problem lies with your
favored industrial companies and governmental policies. The latter
managed to get us into several wars. Wars waste large quantities of raw
materials and food stuffs. The cost for this is built into the debt our
government assumes so as not to have to pay-as-you-go financing of these
large wastes in our capital resources. Also the total collapse in front
of reasonable union demands for a share of the prosperity of the nation.
The industries instead of viewing this as needful reduction of gross
profits merely passed along (with an incremental percentage increase)
the costs to the consumer. This was typical in all areas save those that
were too cheap for their value (fuels, particularly.) After we lead a
great recovery in Europe and Japan and to a lesser extent in China and
Korea, after WWII the favor was returned to us while they left us to
fight the additional wars, cold and hot, that protected their
independence and economic recovery. Now the bills are coming due. The
world's largest nation by far (in population) has stolen with the
cooperation of our producers almost all the manufacturing processes of
electronics, plastics, fabrics, etc. while consuming a disproportionate
share of the fuel needs of such a society. We have spent ourselves into
profligacy and the bills are now coming due. Very poor governmental
policies are only the half of it. In the end we will lose a war with
China brought on by our inability to absorb all of its output. The price
of the peace will be for us to spend ourselves into poverty in order to
satisfy China's need for customers. We tried to change ourselves into a
country of middle-class consumers with enough income to acquire the nice
things of modern technology. Now such bad judgment will reduce a good
half of the middle class into a barely elevated poverty. One of the
unintended consequences of unfettered capitalism. All this in a country
that at one time produced one third of the world's food and was thought
of as place with streets paved with gold.
FK
 
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